Can't Get A Something Just By Repeating Its Name

[Mutheeaa]

Sorry to go off subject here but I was intrigued by the user name - Akiratghan.

There is a shabad by Bhagat Kabir Ji and it goes like this :

A woman of ill repute has cooked the flesh of a dog, in sharaab, and the pot she uses is a human skull.

When she leaves she carries her wares with her but covers it. As she passes a person, he asks her "you cooked the flesh of a dog, in sharaab, in a human skull yet you still cover it?"

She replies "If the (evil) eye of an akiratghan falls even on this concoction, it will be totally ruined." :lol: @

Can you please post the shabd Bundha veer.

I think that shabad is from Bhai GurdasJi or Bhai Saab Nand Lal

start something like this

"Mad wich Riseyah Howe kutte daa maas"...............

Bhul Chukk Maaf

[Guest Akirtghan]

I just kind of skimmed through the other posts, so this might be a repeat...

But you sure he didn't mean that just saying it won't do any good, but you have to like mean it and actually feel something when saying it..?

That's how I interpreted it when I first read it...

No, i basically translasted what he said. i will listen to it again just to make sure

[Revolutionary]

^ no, thats about enough reading for 1 week

vadi aai, matilda di tayi

Did you edit and add that bit later? Seems like you had to think about it for a while.

And thank you very much Techno Singh for being our commentator :umm: .

hmmm interresing low singhni v's papi... the ultimate match

*gets his popcorn ready*

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!!

[Guest Akirtghan]

OOOOO NOT YOU TOOOOOOOO

people, dont spam the thread anymore :umm:

[BhForce]

Good question.

I think the cause of your confusion is in not knowing the entire poem.

The words that the kathavachak (exegete) was explaining seem to be from Bhai Gurdas ji's 437th Kabitt:

Just by saying "Sugar, Sugar", one can't taste sweetness on one's tongue.

Just by saying "Fire, Fire", the cold isn't destroyed. 1

Just by saying "Doctor, Doctor", the disease isn't removed.

Just by saying "Wealth, Wealth", one doesn't enjoy wealth. 2

Just by saying "Sandalwood, Sandalwood", a nice fragrance doesn't manifest.

Just by saying "Moon, Moon", there isn't an illumination of light. 3

In the same way, just by holding a dialogue for the sake of knowledge, one doesn't get the way of life.

Deeds are primal, like the sun shining in the sky is. 4.

The whole meaning of the poem is in line 4. Lines 1-3 are the setup.

Basically Bh. Gurdas ji is saying you can't just debate, dialogue, and lecture, or pontificate on Sikhism, you have to actually practice it.

Here's the way you've understood the poem:

"Sugar, Sugar" is to sweetness as Naam is to spiritual bliss.

That's the wrong lesson, IMHO. The right one is:

"Sugar, Sugar" is to sweetness as talking about Naam is to spiritual bliss.

You can't just talk about japping Naam. You can't just say "Oh, Naam is so great. Naam is wonderful." You have to actually practice it. I.e., jap it.

Taking the meaning of the Kabitt as anti-japping naam wouldn't really make sense as there are plenty of Bhai Gurdas ji quotes in favour of japping naam.

BCM (bhul chuk maaf)

[BhForce]

Also, by saying that deeds are primal, Bh. Gurdas ji is indirectly refuting the Christian and Muslim doctrines that you just have to repeat an incantation (without any amal, or execution, whatsoever) and you'll be saved.

Christians (or at least the Protestants) think you can just state your faith in Jesus and you'll be saved (salvation by faith alone -- "Sola fide"). Muslims think you can be saved just by have said the Kalma ("There is no God but God, etc.")

There's a funny story regarding the latter. Guru 10esh ji was talking w/ Emperor Shah Bahadur who was saying Kalma this, Kalma that. Guru ji had a Singh try to pass a coin made of fake metal which had the Kalma stamped on it in the markets of Delhi. No shopkeeper (Muslims, too) would accept it. The Emperor ashamedly accepted that mere declarations are not enough for salvation.

[humkire]

gurbani does ask us to chant continously WAHEHURU. '' har aradh na jana re,har har gur gur karta re'' and ''madho har har har mukh kehieh'' .

Sugar is a physical thing by saying sugar, sugar wont materialise . But WAHEGURU shabad is God's name. Its means o Enlightener from darkness(guru), you are great(wah). Hence everytime we say Waheguru we are communicating ,talking with ,and praising God who listens and rewards us for clinging on to Him and his Name. WAHEGURU shabad is also Naam ,i.e it denotes/connotes God's power e.g ''naam ke dhareh khand brehmand''.Hence every one time we say WAHEGURU we are coming into contact with God's power which blossoms within us .

That is why more you chant with understanding ,more you are getting into communion with God and soon Naam Raas or the heavenly nectar/essence very liquidy/fluid in nature, and in experience begins to flow within. You soon start to fill saturated with this magical raas and it startsto over flow. Suddenly your consciousness starts feeling less physical but more Godly,more cosmic ,more into the true reality. You feel less of you but more of the True Reality i.e God .The heaviness of the physical self leaves you and you feel as light as a feather. Likewise all yur weakness,your pains ,your depression leaves you and you start radiating joy, strength and confidence .

Gurbani says as a person chants he/she starts to encompass the characteristics of the sun(splendour,brilliance ,power,shining, passion ,fire) as well as of the moon( calmness ,coolness ,tranquility) (SGGS page 952). As you continue spending some time of the night(amritvela) time chanting every night(habitually) you will find that less of you but more of God/ thecosmic energiser expresses through you everyday even making you super intuitive and more of a magical alchemist kinda person.

So when bhai Gurdas says saying sugar does not make sugar happen, he is not saying dont repeat God's name. He is encouraging us to chant with understanding , to use it to communicate with God ,to live a life where your mind begins to appreciate the greatness of God ,which triggers your heart to be filled with God's praise ,that then overflowing into the tongue bursting forth with a loud WAHEGURU repeatedly ,which in turn causes your brain lotus to invert causing you to be released from the trap of maya and experience enlightenment and freedom.

More importantly, you need to interpret that verse about sugar in relation to the whole of Bhai Gurdas's philosophy which was that without total dependence on Gurujeeand Gurujee's grace, you get no where with all your efforts. What i mean is saying sugar is a self created physical effort but saying Waheguru is connected to a bigger understanding about God and to a transformation that occurs concurrently in one's life and these three interrelated processes are set into motion and progress forward only through surrender and dependence to Gurujee who showers us with His grace.

A good understanding of this point occurs in SGGS,page 947 .''kabir mehndi kar keh galiah.....''

There, kabir throws his hand up in the air in despair and laments that he has been grinding and grinding himself into a paste(making lots of spiritual efforts) but it has led him no where near enlightment . Gurujee in the next verse replies that all this grinding will only bear effort if it arises out of God's grace,not out of ego centric self effort.

[BhForce]

Finally, the Gurmantar is a special word. It has within it the power to make manifest the object to which it refers. Not only that, but basically, in some ways it IS the object to which it refers.

Read Sukhmani Sahib about Naam ke dhare sagle jant. Naam is shown as a creative force.

Read Japji sahib. Eko kavao tis te hoye lakh dariao.

From one word came manifold rivers.

So words can have creative force.

The Gurmantar destroys our paaps (sins), destroys karams, binds us with God, and reveals God, who was with us all along.

But you can't just say the Gurmantar and expect results if you don't have kirpa (grace). You get grace by living in hukum and doing seva.

[Akal Ustat]

A definition of a mantra is "that which protects the mind" which in this case protects your own mind from negativity. When you are nervous, disorientated or emotionally fragile doing simran, reciting a mantra inspiringly can change the state of your mind. A Mantra is the essence of sound, and the embodiment of truth in the form of sound. Each syllable is impregnated with spiritual power, and vibrates with the blessing of the speech of the Gurus.