Sitting next to a meat eater?

[birkhalsa]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

guxw kw hovY vwsulw kiF vwsu leIjY ]

gunaa kaa hovai vaasulaa kadt vaas leejai ||

One who has a basket of fragrant virtues, should enjoy its fragrance.

jy gux hovin@ swjnw imil swJ krIjY ]

jae gun hovanih saajanaa mil saajh kareejai ||

If my friends have virtues, I will share in them.

swJ krIjY guxh kyrI Coif Avgx clIAY ]

saajh kareejai guneh kaeree shhodd avagan chaleeai ||

Let us form a partnership, and share our virtues; let us abandon our faults, and walk on the Path.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Soohee on Pannaa 765

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

khalsa you cannot make the assumption that people who meat also drink. That is a completely unwarranted assumption, it is a huge logic flaw to connect the two, (I'm studying for law school exam so just learned about assumptions ), anyways i do not drink but I do eat meat, i know 25 singhs who eat meat and do not drink, i know 10 amritdhari singhs who eat meat and do not drink. Drinking is wrong because it alters your state of mind and thus is an intoxicant, forbidden in Sikhi, but meat has no intoxicating effect unless you cook it in whiskey, which no Punjabis know as this is a western thing and not even known of in punjabi households. Meat is a personal choice, all i know is that the difference between animals and people is that we have religion. Only humans are capable of realizing Waaheguru. I understand that all things on earth, including the earth is God's creation. Eating meat should be a personal choice and if Guru Ji really did not want us to eat meat then he would have said so, Guru Gobind Singh Ji's hukamnama tells us not to eat Halaal meat, or any meat killed in the Muslim way. Where did this "jhatka meat" term come from? If we are not supposed to eat meat then why is there a term "jhatka meat" in Sikh marayada? Guru Gobind Singh has left it upon us to decide what is right or wrong in this sense, he has given us a little hint about not eating halaal meat, but if you are not going to eat meat at all or are going to is up to you.

Meat is food, roti is food, daal sabzhi, it

is all food, I mean don't you people think we have more important things to worry about like universal brotherhood, justice for all, peace on earth, remembrance of waaheguru at all times, living an honest and religious life? Does meat really effect one's chances of achieving these things or at least trying to achieve these things?, I believe not. Halaal meat is forbidden because the animal is killed slowly while prayers are read from the Quran, thus as Mulsims claim making the meat holy and blessed by Allah, well the reason we as Sikhs are forbidden to eat Halaal because we do not belive in such rituals and the killing of an animal slowly as to make it suffer is wrong. Ok we can make a case about langar being blessed but it is in a toatlly different sense because no one stirs the daal and recites a particular part of Gurbani to bless it. The main point of our Sikhi is to avoid ritualism and hollow beliefs and worship the one true Waaheguru. All the shabads from Guru Granth Sahib trhat people brig up about not eating meat is baout respecting all tgings created by God, it shows the wonderful will of God which has created such diversity and life. If you keep analyzing and analyzig it for eternity yeah you will say yeah it says do not eat meat, well in this sense people can say well Ram and Krishna and Brahm Gobind are all mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib as well as the Puraanas and Vedas and Guru Nanak speak sof how holy they are, we all know that these are metaphors for showing that there is one God, one supreme creator, known by many names throughout the world, but the jot the light is one. Guru Granth Sahib uses many metaphors and examples to make certaion points and I truly believe that the point about eating meat was not the intent in any of those cases, the Gurus had more important points to make. This whole meat issue is blown out of proportion every time, and it is just a waste of time because it is all a personal choice which stps no one from being a good Sikh.

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

You are right, JKaur. We can't hide from everyone, nor can we impose our beliefs on other too. However, the best way may be to try to change your friends and family "from the inside". Try to convince them, over time, that eating meat, drinking, etc. isn't good for them, and maybe propose alternatives every once in a while.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

However, to mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan, . One of the few things that all of the modern rehats agree on is the requirement that a Sikh should not eat meat.

I was a meat eater. I enjoyed my burgers, steaks, etc., but remember all of this... you must KILL another organism to satisfy your hunger, your gluttony.

If in God's eyes all creatures are the same, the same joth in all animals, then what gives us the right to slaughter 20 shrimp to feed our single meal? Kill a chicken to satisfy you? Waheguru has provided us with a more than ample source of food from plants, a source that will not kill another to feed us.

And on top of that, with all the release of soy-based meat alternatives which taste the same, have tons of protein, and nearly fat free, why bother to eat meat anyway?

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[V]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

However, to mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan,  :wub: . One of the few things that all of the modern rehats agree on is the requirement that a Sikh should not eat meat.

I was a meat eater. I enjoyed my burgers, steaks, etc., but remember all of this... you must KILL another organism to satisfy your hunger, your gluttony.

If in God's eyes all creatures are the same, the same joth in all animals, then what gives us the right to slaughter 20 shrimp to feed our single meal? Kill a chicken to satisfy you? Waheguru has provided us with a more than ample source of food from plants, a source that will not kill another to feed us.

And on top of that, with all the release of soy-based meat alternatives which taste the same, have tons of protein, and nearly fat free, why bother to eat meat anyway?

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Bhaji i THINK, I'm not sure

But almost sure

that Bani says that th

e HUman being is the 'king of all animals'

now how can you takee the position of saying that plants are acceptable?

after all they are also living beings,

before anyoen argues that they have not conscience

remember

they are ALSO A PART OF THE 84 LAKH JOON, meaning they MUST have a conscience

Btw I just prove I'm a moorakh

cause Guru Ji says:

'Maas Maas kar Murakh Chagrey'

or can we say this is a discussion more than a 'chagra' :umm:?

a well I'm still a moorakh :wub:

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Awip bIij Awpy hI Kwvxw khxw ikCU n jwie

aap beej aapae hee khaavanaa kehanaa kishhoo n jaae ||7||

Whatever you yourself plant, that is what you shall have to eat; nothing else can be said about this. ||7||

You are right, we are the king of all creatures, but with great power comes great responsibility. We have the power to kill others... the mogols had the power (as kings) to force others into Islam, but it was hardly right to do so.

With regard as to why its OK to eat plants... one does not need to kill a tree to eat its fruit. In fact, this is why a tree does produce fruit (its Waheguru's kirpa!).

This is how I have convinced myself. Khata meat is ABSOLUTELY banned from sikhi (no doubts there) because it is wrong to cause pain to other creatures. Scientifically, to feel pain, you must have nerves. Thus to kill anything with nerves will cause it pain. This includes chickens, cows, snails, fish... Plants do not have nerves, they are incapable of suffering, thus to take its fruit does not harm the plant.

Other than that, I too am a foolish moorakh, and although I know it is right in my heart, I cannot truly explain why it is! :T:

[font=GurbaniW

ebThick]vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!![/font][/font]

[Gupt_Singh]

i dont want to enforce my views on the sangat but i would like to make a few things clear.

there is no strong evidence that "puratan" singhs ate meat. in rehatnamas, a specifc mention is made of the absolute PAAP that is putting meat in langar, even from a pro meat author. there is no way meat would have EVER gone in langar. it is a very bad sin.

there are hukamnamas from guru arjun, and guru hargobind which specifically ban MEAT and FISH. mohsin fani says the first five gurus never touched meat, but guru hargobind hunted and must have eaten it. this contradicts the authenticated hukamnama, present with the seal and signature of the guru, saying do not go near meat of fish.

the shahsterv*diya website has reconciled this saying that "akali nihung" guru gobind singh allowed meat in the form of jhatka only.

the only rehatnama which tells you meat is ok is bhai desa singh. but he says only jhatka GOAT is allowed, to be killed away from the gurdwara or langar, and there should be no mention of anything else. this is contradictory to his other statements, but nevertheless, if a sikh wants to adopt a meat eating approach i can *sortov* see where he is coming from if he only eats

a)jhatka

B) only goat

if a sikh eats anything other than that there is no historical backing at all. i am not saying it is ok to eat jhatka goat, i am saying there are two possibilities only, all meat is banned, or all meat other than jhatka goat is banned. one has more evidence than the other to it however. if you do not believe

me read the rehatnamas and accounts of the gurus times.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

what modern rehats? There is one rehat maryada that was agreed upon by Sikhs and it does not forbid meat only halaal meat, i'm not being a bad sikh by saying this because it is a fact. Anyways like I said there are more important things in the world than food, and eating meat does not mean one is satisfying "gluttony" gluttony would be if one person ate 2 whole chickens as a meal I mean you are just making it sounf=d like eating meat is done by people as an intentinal way to fulfill a sin, one eats meat for the same reason one eats daal or sabzhi, it is FOOD. You can't say if one eats meat he or she is fulfilling gluttony, we all have hunger and we all eat different foods to feed that hunger and the fact that there are soy substitutes for meat is just like saying there is fat free margarin so why don't we use that instead of Ghee in karah parshad.........It is all choice, plants are also celullar beings capable of reproducing and growing. I only eat jhatka meat, and stay away from halaal as that is forbidden in Sikhi.

[Gurvinder.Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

hey ppl i eat meat dont smoke or drink though, trying to give it up and wanna, but besides does it matter that you sit and socialise with someone that eats meat?, s/he is after all a human being reguard less if they eat the meat or not, at the end of the day ou know and should treat everyone as equals reguard less of who they are therefore should apply to anyone eating meat

[Gupt_Singh]

bhai sahib u didnt understand what i said.

firstly yes there was originally one rehat. by the early 1900s there were about 40. scholars got together are finalised the rehat maryada by studying puratan history sources, and this is what we have today.

scholars are not infallible and there are points of contention in the rehat. there is plenty of evidence to suggest some parts of the SGPC rehat are not completely as they were in guru jis time. that is why people follow akj maryada, damdami taksal maryada, nihang maryada etc - it is a personal choice on what they believe was the original.

im not saying dont u dare eat meat, im saying you can eat meat if you wish, but the only type of meat you can eat and attempt to justify historically is jhatka goat. other than that, you cannot claim historical substance to something. i am also interested in how you do your jhatka personally - where you get it from, if you eat meat other than goat etc.

also for what reason is halal meat banned? before blindly accepting this ban, read some rehatnamas, not just the published ones. most of them are quite embarassingly anti muslim. bhai nand lal says, he is a khalsa who slays a muslim. other rehatnamas say, dont say hello to a muslim, ignore a muslim, never befriend a muslim, dont give ur sword to a muslim and walk ahead, dont even learn persian (even tho some paath is in persian!), dont even have a muslim boss in a job, etc etc. many muslim practises in particular are banned. and eating the "maas" of the "turks" seems to be one of these.

bhai sahib i am not asking you to stop eating meat but i am saying examine the rehat and the sources for the rehat. it gets alot more comp

licated than one would think. to even translate the world "turk" in a rehatnama to "muslim" and nothinge else ignores all the political submeanings to teh word, association with the mughals, etc. what i mean is, question everything and find the truth for yourself. because the only scriptures you can put 100percent faith in is dhurr kee bani. any rehatnama scripture, rehat maryada we find today, has been written by a man. sad but true. since the rehat is now finalised on most points, it is 100percent likely that one of the major rehats we have today is identical to the one back in gurujis time - its just a question of which one.