Suicide and Honour

[AK-47]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Came home today and saw my parents watching some punjabi film and just as i walked in there was a scene about how some girl had just stabbed herself because she was about to be physically attacked by some guy.

Just wondered what people thought about that? Would most of us condemn somebody who took their own life rather than be molested by another man. I know its a punjabi concept of izzat, but does it exist outside of the eastern world?

And also we know that women do get attcked in all parts of the world, and that often you hear that the find it difficult to tell anybody or even report it to the police.

Is this even harder for punjabi women? is there an ever lasting stigma attached to this issue?

I remember once when i was in punjab, this woman who was asking for money was sobbing that she wasnt a begger but that she'd raped and her own family had thrown her out rather than help her.

I know this is a very serious topic and something we never seem to tackle, but where does personal honour, family honour and rape fit in with each other?

Sorry if this question offends anybody, this is not my intention.

[Guest mehtab]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Unfortunately our society is very unforgiving (especially in the case of women) and its really sad that the girl herself is held responsible if she is raped. In order to NOT face the new and worse problems that might come along and devastate her already messed up life, the "Punjabi" girl may feel it proper to do away with life rather than stand upto it and face a new set of mental tortures and social rejection. The scene u are talking about is also shown in many hindi movies as well, and makes one wonder what in the world makes an innocent soul take that step. Perhaps this is the reason some people feel that rapists shud be given the death sentence as they have made some1's life worse than death. The belief that one's honor is superior to one's life (not that i m saying its right or wrong) shows its ugliest face possible in the given situation.

plzz forgive me...i know this is a sensitive topic

i stand corrected

my 2 cents

[bismaadh kaur]

waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

I have never been in that situation, so I can't possibly feel the emotions that would run through any womens head who is put through that.

But, a couple of things ran through my head while i was reading the post. One, I think if I was in the situation I wouldn't feel comfortable enough telling my parents. I think in our punjabi culture...our parents have put up a wall that keeps the talk of rape, and assault a "crime" if it was brought up. Well that is my feeling anyways. I know that most of the youth that I know have never engaged in a conversation with their parents about what is appropriate and not appropriate, what are the signs of assault, where and where not can one be touched...they haven't taught us what our own privacy means.

I think with the upcoming generation we need to make sure that they are aware. That when we become parents our children can feel comfortable enough to talk to us about these things.

Going back to the question that was raised...personally I don't think i could ever take my life for anything. As a Sikh I am lucky to know how precious every breath we take is. Sikhi teaches every person to be strong no matter what the situation. I can only imagine what goes through one's mind after being assaulted and i'm sure the pain lasts years. But taking your life...it seems impulsive. I could never actually see myself stabbing myself, or shooting myself at the face of assault. I don't know if these are REAL cases, or just a "solution" seen in movies.

If this really does happen...I think our generation needs to start educating ourselves, educating

our parents...educating eachother. Making sure that for those women there is a place where they can go. We as the youth of today need to be here for eachother. If this was the case...If a women who was abused knew that she would have a way out...that there was someone there for her....i dont' think she would even consider taking her own life.

I think I've been going here and there with the topic but, there's so much to discuss when it comes to this topic

bhul chuck maaf karnaa jee

sandeep kaur

[S1ngh]

bottom line : We sucks in these social issues

There are thousands of battered sikh women cases in america but Still no organization/shelter to take care of them and support them.. We really need to look into these issues and fast.. (in punjab it needed badly)

[Guest mehtab]

dont u feel like saying

DHANN GURU GOBIND SINGH JEE who blessed us with the kirpan to tackle such assaulters

and to all those non-Sikhs out there who think Sikhs are a violent community, i ask this

WAHEGURU forbid, but imagine ur mom or sis or daughter or wife being assaulted by a rapist...what does ur gandhian ahimsa principle tell u to do? go and reason with him as a loser, or pick up ur sword and get rid of the sinner!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

sant bhindrawaale said, "je saadiah teeah bhaina di izzat nu hath paya, ta fer eho jahi shaanti nahi rakhni, assi shant mayee tang de naal rehena chauhne ah......"

-if the izzat of our daughters and sisters continues to be shamed we will not be peaceful....we want to be peaceful but not when this happens

thousands of our sisters and mothers were raped by security forces, sometimes a daughter was made to lie naked on her father, a daughter was raped in front of her brothers, these are the kinds of things witnessed by singhs who picked up ak-47s.

any women who has been raped should stay alive to see the evil doer punished by death.

i understand that in the Punjabi culture a girl is looked down upon after something like this. I guess we need to be real sikhs of teh Guru to understand her situation and suffering rather than being puppets of the social order of the times. As for what the girl may feel personally, i could not say but as a brother or a father or son of a victim, my blood would boil and my trigger finger would be ready to read that evil doers Kirtan Sohila.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i personally believe suicide is against sikhi, but i have seen instances where it seems rational to me. for example kharkoo singhs who were caught by the poloce and were tortured non-stop would eventually take cyanide to end their suffering as their was no way out or they would do it so they would not give info about other kharkoo veers. In these instances i understood the logic behind it. This is a really interesting topic which is much deeper than may appear. This life given to us by Waaheguru is sacred because it is in human form that we are capable of trying to realize God and chant his Naam. However, suicide has many faces. There is suicide by people suffering from incurable diseases, by people who are being tortured as mentioned earlier, suicide by rape victims, by criminals, by people who believe they are attaining shaheedi such as Palestinian suicide bombers, and many others. Each situation has its own argument, but if one believes in Waaheguru then one must understand that everything is God's will, the power to take and give life is in HIS hands, if one is absorbed in Waaheguru then mortal suffering is painless, such as when

" Guru was made to sit on a hot Iron plate all day while having hot sand poured over his head. Even going through this gruelling torture, Guru Arjun Saheb Ji remained calm and continued on with his meditation. To increase the level of torture, the Guru was taken right from the super hot Iron plate to the cold water of the river where he was made to stand. Eventually, this is the place where Guru Arjun Saheb Ji left his body and became the first martyr of the Sikh religion. "

I understand that this level of devotion is very

hard to attain but it is something we should be striving for as Sikhs. Suicide by women who are raped might be more of a consequence of social pressures over personal mental harm, but again i am in no place to say, just my hypothesis.

im all over the place with this topic because it is a difficult thing to pin point, i mean suicide is wrong but then again only the person suffering and commiting the act knows his internal feeings and intentions.

[bismaadh kaur]

waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

see the thing with suicide (not including the incidents with the singh in jail)...just seems like a way out that really is a dead end.

how are any of us to know what Guru Sahib Jee has planned for our lives? i know someone personally who tried to commit suicide...but survived, and her life now is amazing. She does simran and goes to keertan. She's happy. But what if that day, she did die?? she would have just been a wondering soul.

i almost feel bad saying this...but nothing we feel in this life, worldly can even compare to what we would feel if we took our own life. We are fortunate enough to have human body...but to be wondering souls?? that is what happens when we take our own life. not only are we given human lives, but we are given sikhi.

we live in this life and we forget that there is an after life. We do have to pay for our actions. Guru Sahib Jee has given us a way out...He's given us a solution for all of our problems. Simran and patience. Taking our own lives...only to become wondering lost souls, it doesn't seem like a good solution.

i may have a naive way of thinking because I have a strong sikhi basis in my life. And I can understand how someone who doesn't have any type of foundation in their...how that person could want to take their own life as a last resort. Again, we as sikhs need to work on this...and make sure ppl out there know that there is a way out.

You know we sit around doing seva for ourselves...we feed the ppl that are already full. I think as a panth we need to start doing seva outside of our own sheltered circles. We need to start doing

seva for the human panth. That what we are here for right? Guru Gobind Singh Jee made us saint soldiers for that reason...He gave us a goal...and a purpose. We need to start realising that and make a difference in the world.

again, i've been all over the place...

i hope i haven't offended anyone...my words maybe have been a bit harsh

bhul chuck maaf karnaa jee

sandeep kaur

[V]

The Slution to the whole topic is

FOLLOW THE HUKAM oF GURU JI, and NOTHING CAN HAPPEN YOU!

Keep your KIRPAN!

Do what you were sent to do:

The Lord grants His Grace, and dispels the pains of those who sing the Kirtan of the Praises of His Name. When the Lord God shows His Kindness, O Nanak, one is no longer engrossed in Maya. || 1 || The burning fire has been put out; God Himself has saved me. Meditate on that God, O Nanak, who created the universe. || 2 || PAUREE: When God becomes merciful, Maya does not cling. Millions of sins are eliminated, by meditating on the Naam, the Name of the One Lord. The body is made immaculate and pure, bathing in the dust of the feet of the Lord’s humble servants. The mind and body become contented, finding the Perfect Lord God. One is saved, along with his family, and all his ancestors. || 18 || (Page: 709) HUkam -  Monday 2nd FEb

Sunday 1st FEb:

You are the Giver, O Lord, O Cherisher, my Master, my Husband Lord. Each and every moment, You cherish and nurture me; I am Your child, and I rely upon You alone. || 1 || I have only one tongue — which of Your Glorious Virtues can I describe?

Unlimited, infinite Lord and Master — no one knows Your limits. || 1 || Pause || You destroy millions of my sins, and teach me in so many ways. I am so ignorant — I understand nothing at all. Please honor Your innate nature, and save me! || 2 || I seek Your Sanctuary — You are my only hope. You are my companion, and my best friend. Save me, O Merciful Saviour Lord; Nanak is the slave of Your home. || 3 || 12 ||

Panna :673

Now last but not least:

English Translation : 

DHANAASAREE, FIFTH MEHL:

He does not let His devotees see the difficult times; this is His innate nature. Giving His hand, He protects His devotee; with each and every breath, He cherishes him. || 1 || My consciousness remains attached to God. In the beginning, and in the end, God is always my helper and companion; blessed is my friend. || Pause || My mind is delighted, gazing upon the marvellous, glorious greatness of the Lord and Master. Remembering, remembering the Lord in meditation, Nanak is in ecstasy; God, in His perfection, has protected and preserved his honor. || 2 || 15 || 46 ||

Friday 18th Maagh (Samvat 535 Nanakshahi)  (Page: 682) 

30th Jan!

AGAIN AND AGAIN..GURU JI SAYS..MEDITATE..FOLLOW THE HUKAM!

Follow the HUKAM....and God wont let your HAIR fall of (Vaal Ni Vinga hoon deen ge!)

Simple SOLUTION

Now I feel REALLY hypocratical ..Not doing it myself

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOo DUMB @ ..I KNOW the solution to all..but dont do it myself :D @

Bhull chukk di Khima

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest balwinderkaur]

anyone ever explored the issue of honour killing????....i.e parents/relatives finish off the assaulted victim to save face....this sucks totally... and yes our PUNJABI CLOSE MINDED SOCIETY sucks the most in all of these issues. :D hmph :wub: so sad.

and yes, big up to kalgidhar pitajee for giving us a sharp cool kirpaan to defend ourselves. HE's the smartest.