Kirtan In Praise Of Ramchander In Durbar Shaib

[Singh, Mahan]

The best place on earth is a mandir - the HariMANDIR.

Slowy the fascits 'Sikhs' - ( they are not even Sikhs) want to change the name to Darbar Sahib - to escape from Hindu associations.

Soon they will want to change the writings of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and take out all references to Hinduism like RAM, HARI, etc -

If Sarpanch and other fascists do not like Sikhis association with Hinduism - and if Islam is so attractive to them - they should convert to Islam and go to Pakistan.

People like Sarpanch are an embarrassement to Sikhs.

All they spew out is anit- Hindu hatred.

- The name is Harmandar Sahib ( Not Hari Mandir). I have noted on the other-hand, that it is the “Hindu” media are the ones which mis-spell Harmandar as “Hari Mandir”

- Every gurdwara has a Darbar (Darwar) Sahib. Darbar Sahib comes into being when, on a specially prepared place, the parkash of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is done. SachKhand part of the Harmandar Sahib complex is not the only place where Darbar Sahib is in the complex. There is also a Darbar Sahib in the Akal Takht within that complex. However, it so happens that because of the importance of the Harmandar Sahib to Sikhism , the place has also come to be known as “The” Darbar Sahib. Calling Harmandar Sahib as “the” Darbar Sahib is in no way related to the association or dissociation of Sikhism with Hinduism.

-Theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism. It has been so right from Guru Nanak. So articulating it clearly as different from Hinduism should not make you so nervous. Sikhism did not come out of Hindu “thought”. Sikhism is based on that which was “revealed” to Guru Nanak. ( By the times of Guru Nanak the Hindu thought was fully developed. So what would have been the purpose of God to reveal the Hindu thought again ). Sikhism is not a midpoint between Hinduism and Islam either. Neither it was a “movement” to reform Hinduism. Sikhism is based upon the revelation to Guru Nanak of the “Truth” about the universe and how Human being relate to Formless entity (Nirankar). It totally rejects that deities are being gods and it rejects “Human gods” like Ram of Ayudhia.

Guru Nanak wrote in the terminology of religion that was being used in those days to convey his message. The reference to Ram in Siri Guru Granth Sahib appears many times to point out that Ram of Ayudhia is not “God” and that if one insists on calling Ram as God it should be thought as the same entity as is Narankar ( formless) not that Ram who lived in Ayudhia. That Ram died like all other human beings and therefore is “NOT GOD”. So don’t get too worried about it either. Sikhs are not going to remove that reference to Ram as it is there to remind people that the theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism.

[THE WARRIOR]

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj tells us about the Nirghun and Sarghun qualities of the Avatars like Ram etc, further more Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj stated that there is no Muslim or Hindu…..He did not go on to state there are only Sikhs. Guru Ji message was a simple one; it was not about religions and territories but about the brotherhood of humanity and the awareness of Satnam Vaheguru!

[hawk13]

The best place on earth is a mandir - the HariMANDIR.

Slowy the fascits 'Sikhs' - ( they are not even Sikhs) want to change the name to Darbar Sahib - to escape from Hindu associations.

Soon they will want to change the writings of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and take out all references to Hinduism like RAM, HARI, etc -

If Sarpanch and other fascists do not like Sikhis association with Hinduism - and if Islam is so attractive to them - they should convert to Islam and go to Pakistan.

People like Sarpanch are an embarrassement to Sikhs.

All they spew out is anit- Hindu hatred.

First tell the members whether hindu word exists in old hindu text or not and true meaning of hindu rather the hindu fanatics r the biggest fascist organisation in world known as RSS only one to follow hitler idelogy. Sikhs cannot be fascists rather SARPANCH like a true sikh is fighting the fascists.GURU NANAK DEV JI refused to wear zanue and rejected karamkand associated with marriageand introduced seperate ceromony of marriage will u call THE GURU JI ALSO FASCIST. See before 1920 hindu minded Mahants who was managing the GURDWARAS used to exploit the sikh women instead of keeertan during BAISAKHI in amritsar lewd songs used to be sung according to state police reports this festival used to be festival of anti-social people.and idols of hindu gods used to be worshipped in every histroric place before harping on hindu sikh link go through the history of akali morchas.Do u want same practice to be reintroduced. badal and co is doing the same thing.

[hawk13]

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj tells us about the Nirghun and Sarghun qualities of the Avatars like Ram etc, further more Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj stated that there is no Muslim or Hindu…..He did not go on to state there are only Sikhs. Guru Ji message was a simple one; it was not about religions and territories but about the brotherhood of humanity and the awareness of Satnam Vaheguru!

GURU JI was againist avtarvad and further GURU JI held position of sikhs even superior to HIMSELF there r many incidents from GURU NANAK DEVI TO GURU GOBIND SINGH JI where sikh was given higher position than the guru. GURU NANAK DEV JI GAVE GURGADDI TO LEHNA A SIKH and GURU GOBIND SINGH TOOK AMRIT FROM PANJ PYRAAS apart from it there r many examples . Why we keep KARAH PRASAD FOR PANJ PYRAAS ANSWER IS GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAS GIVEN SOUL OF GURU TO GRANTH SHAIB AND PHYSICAL FORM TO GURU PANTH. So GURU GRANTH AND GURU PANTH R INTEGRAL TO EACH-OTHR.SIKH MEANS DISCPLINE OF ALMIGHTY IDENTITY IS KHALSA WHICH IS AKAL PURKAKH KI FAUJ.

[OhTwadi]

hawk13, how can you be so sure that what they sung was not bani? do you all of guru granth sahib jee kanth?

[hawk13]

Hawk 13 i was not aware of the one liner. As stated when i listened to the kirtan i can distinctly remember hearing the shabad i quoted. If the case is that some other kavita outside of gurbani that the breaks the code of only gurbani being quoted in harmandir sahib and as you stated this should not be condoned and somehow should be taken up with the authority of the akaal takhat

See brother it is not the first time sancity of DURBAR SHAIB has been violated. 2 years back some scientists removed branches from DUKHBHANJANI BERI and studied it and strated growing same tree in the new mandir at vellore and at tripati. Apart from this some water from SARVOVAR was also shifted to hindu mandir ponds as trree and SAROVAR was found to contain some extraordinary healing properties during lab tests this was reported in HT last year THE SGPC was feeling proud of it.

[TheVampire]

The best place on earth is a mandir - the HariMANDIR.

Slowy the fascits 'Sikhs' - ( they are not even Sikhs) want to change the name to Darbar Sahib - to escape from Hindu associations.

Soon they will want to change the writings of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and take out all references to Hinduism like RAM, HARI, etc -

If Sarpanch and other fascists do not like Sikhis association with Hinduism - and if Islam is so attractive to them - they should convert to Islam and go to Pakistan.

People like Sarpanch are an embarrassement to Sikhs.

All they spew out is anit- Hindu hatred.

- The name is Harmandar Sahib ( Not Hari Mandir). I have noted on the other-hand, that it is the “Hindu” media are the ones which mis-spell Harmandar as “Hari Mandir”

- Every gurdwara has a Darbar (Darwar) Sahib. Darbar Sahib comes into being when, on a specially prepared place, the parkash of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is done. SachKhand part of the Harmandar Sahib complex is not the only place where Darbar Sahib is in the complex. There is also a Darbar Sahib in the Akal Takht within that complex. However, it so happens that because of the importance of the Harmandar Sahib to Sikhism , the place has also come to be known as “The” Darbar Sahib. Calling Harmandar Sahib as “the” Darbar Sahib is in no way related to the association or dissociation of Sikhism with Hinduism.

-Theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism. It has been so right from Guru Nanak. So articulating it clearly as different from Hinduism should not make you so nervous. Sikhism did not come out of Hindu “thought”. Sikhism is based on that which was “revealed” to Guru Nanak. ( By the times of Guru Nanak the Hindu thought was fully developed. So what would have been the purpose of God to reveal the Hindu thought again ). Sikhism is not a midpoint between Hinduism and Islam either. Neither it was a “movement” to reform Hinduism. Sikhism is based upon the revelation to Guru Nanak of the “Truth” about the universe and how Human being relate to Formless entity (Nirankar). It totally rejects that deities are being gods and it rejects “Human gods” like Ram of Ayudhia.

Guru Nanak wrote in the terminology of religion that was being used in those days to convey his message. The reference to Ram in Siri Guru Granth Sahib appears many times to point out that Ram of Ayudhia is not “God” and that if one insists on calling Ram as God it should be thought as the same entity as is Narankar ( formless) not that Ram who lived in Ayudhia. That Ram died like all other human beings and therefore is “NOT GOD”. So don’t get too worried about it either. Sikhs are not going to remove that reference to Ram as it is there to remind people that the theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism.

Thank you for your reply Mohan Singh.

Guru Nanak Ji's thoughts and beliefs were prevailent prior to Guru Nanak Ji's times as well.

Tha Bhakti movement can be traced hundreds of years priro to Guru Ji.

That is why we have bani's of Farid Ji, Kabir Ji and other bhakats in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

These bhagats were around prior to Guru Nanak Ji.

Guru Nanak Ji togeter with his own revelations put these thoughts together and set in motion what is Sikhism.

Re Ram, Hari etc.

I know these words refer to the one God, not to ramchandar or other Hindu characters.

My point was that these are words undoubtedly have Hindu connotatitions - and it seems that today anything associated with Hinduism is demonised and in fact insulted.

Soon these Sikh extremists will want to change the names of Guru Arjun Ji, Guru Ram Das Ji, Guru Har Krishan Ji, Guru Gobind Singh Ji because they all refer to Hindu historical characters.

Re Harimandir or Harmandar.

Even if we take the latter spelling

HAR means God

Mandar means ? please tell me

To me it does not matter if we call the Golden Temple - Harmandar, Harimandir or Darbar Sahib.

As we all know some say ram ram and some kudha - all the same.

Fateh.

[hawk13]

The best place on earth is a mandir - the HariMANDIR.

Slowy the fascits 'Sikhs' - ( they are not even Sikhs) want to change the name to Darbar Sahib - to escape from Hindu associations.

Soon they will want to change the writings of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and take out all references to Hinduism like RAM, HARI, etc -

If Sarpanch and other fascists do not like Sikhis association with Hinduism - and if Islam is so attractive to them - they should convert to Islam and go to Pakistan.

People like Sarpanch are an embarrassement to Sikhs.

All they spew out is anit- Hindu hatred.

- The name is Harmandar Sahib ( Not Hari Mandir). I have noted on the other-hand, that it is the “Hindu” media are the ones which mis-spell Harmandar as “Hari Mandir”

- Every gurdwara has a Darbar (Darwar) Sahib. Darbar Sahib comes into being when, on a specially prepared place, the parkash of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is done. SachKhand part of the Harmandar Sahib complex is not the only place where Darbar Sahib is in the complex. There is also a Darbar Sahib in the Akal Takht within that complex. However, it so happens that because of the importance of the Harmandar Sahib to Sikhism , the place has also come to be known as “The” Darbar Sahib. Calling Harmandar Sahib as “the” Darbar Sahib is in no way related to the association or dissociation of Sikhism with Hinduism.

-Theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism. It has been so right from Guru Nanak. So articulating it clearly as different from Hinduism should not make you so nervous. Sikhism did not come out of Hindu “thought”. Sikhism is based on that which was “revealed” to Guru Nanak. ( By the times of Guru Nanak the Hindu thought was fully developed. So what would have been the purpose of God to reveal the Hindu thought again ). Sikhism is not a midpoint between Hinduism and Islam either. Neither it was a “movement” to reform Hinduism. Sikhism is based upon the revelation to Guru Nanak of the “Truth” about the universe and how Human being relate to Formless entity (Nirankar). It totally rejects that deities are being gods and it rejects “Human gods” like Ram of Ayudhia.

Guru Nanak wrote in the terminology of religion that was being used in those days to convey his message. The reference to Ram in Siri Guru Granth Sahib appears many times to point out that Ram of Ayudhia is not “God” and that if one insists on calling Ram as God it should be thought as the same entity as is Narankar ( formless) not that Ram who lived in Ayudhia. That Ram died like all other human beings and therefore is “NOT GOD”. So don’t get too worried about it either. Sikhs are not going to remove that reference to Ram as it is there to remind people that the theology of Sikhism is different from that of Hinduism.

Thank you for your reply Mohan Singh.

Guru Nanak Ji's thoughts and beliefs were prevailent prior to Guru Nanak Ji's times as well.

Tha Bhakti movement can be traced hundreds of years priro to Guru Ji.

That is why we have bani's of Farid Ji, Kabir Ji and other bhakats in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

These bhagats were around prior to Guru Nanak Ji.

Guru Nanak Ji togeter with his own revelations put these thoughts together and set in motion what is Sikhism.

Re Ram, Hari etc.

I know these words refer to the one God, not to ramchandar or other Hindu characters.

My point was that these are words undoubtedly have Hindu connotatitions - and it seems that today anything associated with Hinduism is demonised and in fact insulted.

Soon these Sikh extremists will want to change the names of Guru Arjun Ji, Guru Ram Das Ji, Guru Har Krishan Ji, Guru Gobind Singh Ji because they all refer to Hindu historical characters.

Re Harimandir or Harmandar.

Even if we take the latter spelling

HAR means God

Mandar means ? please tell me

To me it does not matter if we call the Golden Temple - Harmandar, Harimandir or Darbar Sahib.

As we all know some say ram ram and some kudha - all the same.

Fateh.

Dear brother first I want to correct u regarding BHAKTI MOVEMENT . Guru Nanak dev ji had no link with bhakti movement as it was a reforms movement. Guru Nanak Dv Ji created a new thought and new order.I t is true some selected banis of bhagats have been included not whole writings the reason is sikhism believes in ONE ALMIGHTY EKONKAR.Guru Nanak Dev ji was a REVOLTIONARY IN PRACTICE AND FIRST FREE DOM FIGTER IN HUMAN HISTORY. As hindu minded scholars call it bhagati movement falsely. Why guru ji was a freedom fighter and revolnary the answer is guru created a new order changing social structure and seeked and got freedom from social, economic and culutral freedom and paved the way for political freedom.Leftists calls MARX as a revotionary but he in practice was quite oposite was a paper tiger that is one of the reason for failure of communist regimes.Guru Nanak dev ji freed the people from religious slavery also.Bhagati movement seeked reforms only not the change. As far hindu link r concerned first find the true meaning of word of hindu .It was writen in hindu texts that vishnu raped the wife of king jalandhar then fell in love for her who commited sucide and saligram was created in memory of this shameful act. Same vishnu is called hari by brahmins and worshipped if u r referring to it then u r going againist sikhism as sikhi teaches respect to women even she belongs to enemy camp.

[hawk13]

hawk13, how can you be so sure that what they sung was not bani? do you all of guru granth sahib jee kanth?

I do take regularily take the hukum yes I DO NOT READ GRANTH SHAIB KANTH but I CAN MAKE OUT WHAT IS IN granth shaib. BUT CAN DO NITNEM OF MOST BANIS KANTH.

[hawk13]

HAWK 13 bro Im glad we have brothers like you who see sense and understand what I have been trying tell people here,it gives me great pleasure to see another brother with brains who understands the RSS ideology and how they train and kill.

thanx A LOT BROTHER but the problem is most of the sikhs r not aware of real danger of RSS and its sister organisations as it has many facea like ABVP the student wing DURGA VAHINI women wing BHARAT VIKAS PARISHAD SOCIAL ACTION GROUP. BHARAT VIKAS PARISHAD is having its branches allover punjab including rural areas this organisation do social work to gain popularity and gets funds from the common sikhs on the name of social work once I got their megazine it was full of disgraceful writings about the sikh gurus.Many serving and retired officials and judges r its members among them r KPS GILL, RS BEDI air marshall, P.C DOGRA, among others. P.C Dogra even advocated raising of hindu terorrist gangs to kill sikhs and muslims.