~! Danger Of Bhausaria Mindset In The Panth !~

[N30S1NGH]

I agree with you veer jss, back then there were defaniately those who had guru's gurmat gyan (lotus in the mud) they neither fit into bhausaria or sampardaaic especially- bhai vir singh ji or prof puran singh. However, many have tried to link bhai vir singh ji with bhai mani singh taksal, i personally didnt find any strong link, may be possiblity of influence of samparda thought but not strong link. There is not even single sikh organization who doesnt quote from amazing texts written by bhai vir singh ji. I had

glimpse of bhai vir singh ji teeka of sri guru granth sahib, its fully adhyatamic- based on anubhav parkash. Its unfortunate, bhai sahib health didnt allow to make this teeka sampuran.

emijeha veer,

i m really sorry i unintentionally typed khalas as khalsa. its definetaly khalas in sarbloh granth not khalsa.

However according to bhai kahn singh nabha mahan kosh they both mean the same. Mahan Kosh is only dictionary of sikh scriptures.

If you see the below meaning: you will see under khalas meaning is given: Nirole, Shud, if you check meaning of khalsa- term described as nirole and shud. Under khalas 3.) its actually referred as khalsa. They are synonyms.

Namastang, what are ur views on polygamy and charitropakhyan?

Are we as amritdhari gursikhs allowed more than 1 wife?

i dont want to go on off-topic, but i suggest look into my previous posts for my views. I beleive in Sampooran Sri Dasam Granth sahib ji, which includes charitropakhyan. Polygamy is different subject all together. I dont wish to discuss that here, just create another thread, or if not just restart the thread which is already created on polygamy/multiple guru's wives on this forum. I ll post my thoughts on this.

But one thing is very interesting, if we look at issue of polygamy and expression of disgust by bhausaria mindset, we also see another british link there. This expression of disgust against polygamy by people having bhausaria mindset neither came from cultural influence knowning its very normal back in punjab, lady marrying deceased husband's brother by default, also if you look at our great great grand fathers life time, they will tell you there were cases of polygamy all across in punjab. From dharamic perspective, there was no uproar and was accepted until birth of bhausaria mindset nor this expression of disgust against polygamy came from socio-religious maryada of takths especially after when you look at appaling evidences from various different sources our guru's had more than wife and were polygamous. So question here comes down, where this expression of disgust against polygamy came from? One possible answer is - victorian/british influence if we look at the time frame of this expression of diguist against polygamy took birth and british raaj. There is no denying that british empire who ruled almost half of the world were against polygamy and consider it to be unmoral and taboo, thats the very reason countries which were once ruled by british ie- canada, jamiaca, australia, new zealand etc does not consider polygamy marriages as legal marriage.

If you wish to discuss in further detail eg- guru's having multiple wives, bhai gurdas ji varan on nar nari kindly make a post onthreads which are already created discussing issue in polygamy. I dont wish to go off topic in this thread, only reason i talked about this

in breif, just wanted to show an sangat an another possible link - bhausaria mindset and british.

[jss]

yeah bhai vir singh ji's teekha is amazing...we have the set at home..and you're right...he got actually about half of it finished before he passed away.

It is known that he spent actually a very long time working on it...and someone once asked him why are you taking so long and he said that guru nanak gave him hukam to only write down the truest meanings that would come to him..and he said...that everyday deeper meanings come and i have to rewrite...

from what i've read about bhai vir singh ji's life...he wasn't directly involved with any organization directly, but he had many friends with more sampardaaic leanings. For example, Sant Sangat Singh ji Kamaliyaay valay, was a very close friend of bhai sahib ji...him and prof puran singh ji and bhai vir singh ji used to spend time together doing simran...

in fact sant sangat singh ji, was originally known as sangat das, and had studied santhiya of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji under a mahant mahapurkh (i forget the name)...after having studied under him and be blessed with brahm gyaan....he found bhai sahib's book...Kalgidhar Chamatkaar...it was after that he was also inspired to seek his company and he kept his kesh and took amrit....Sant sangat singh ji went on to do gursikhi parchar in mostly places that are now in Pakistan and used to go to Sargodha also...where my father's family is originally from... in fact, it is he who inspired my grandfather to become the first guru ka sikh in our family....

it is said that sant sangat singh ji was was soo humble that he would be sitting right in the sangat with everyone else..and they'd would announce his name to do katha, he would get up, matha tek and go sit behind guru ji and do katha from the vaaak....it is also said that the birds would stop chirping to listen to this gurmukh's katha...

also...bhai jaswant singh ji (aka Bauji) the gurmukh piyaaray who started the samagams and gursikhi parchar at pind dodra....he also did not study under any actual organization...he was inspired by gurmukhs from a young age..and when he was in the army in Burma, he was in close contact with the granthi singh ji on the base and was further inspired from there...

he spent time many years doing a single paath of guru granth sahib ji...and when asked about the length, it was because he would get stuck on pangtis finding soo much raas in what guru ji's hukams were...just sit there for hours repeating them to himself before bringing himself to go further....bauji was also very inspired by bhai vir singh ji's writings and prof puran singh ji's writings....he would recommend them to all the sangataaan to read and take laahaa...

bauji's aatmic talks can be found in mp3 format on www.gurbanivichar.com

something that i think is worth noting....all of these gurmukhs mentioned...were not only spiritually elevated souls who were ikmik with guru sahib ji....they were also very learned in worldly education...were academics, all lead gristhi lifestyle, worked their jobs and looked after their families and inspired sangataaan....

i think this makes their parchar very strong and very relevant...and even more effective against the bhausaria mindset as i've seen most of the kala afgana/bhaursaria mindset people try to differentiate sikhs based on education and non education....they like to portray the sikhs that go to sadh sangat and seek the company of saints as being uneducated....they try to portray saints as people that don't do any work and live off the earnings of others...they would not be able to put up one argument againts these gurmukhs...

*note..although i've talked about gristhi lifestyle...this is not in any way against those gurmukhs who lived a bihungami lifestyle...everyone has a path and a way of life and parchar... so please no one take away an anti-bihungami message from this post...

[Charandhoor Singh]

Many articles that we read written by modern sikh scholars have lines echoing 'Sikhi is about science and logic' (ie. Dr Baldev Singh and others).

You cant fail to recognise some of the great writers who were not directly from samprada's traditions, adding to the list of those already mentioned I would like to include Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir. The difference in their writings and the writings of modern Sikh scholars is that their writings contained very evidently contained a world of spirtual knowledge and experience which is something we dont see today... because of course how can spiritual experiences be true if they are not scientifically verifiable? It is not logical....

"The quest for learning continues until a Sikh becomes satisfied. Besides, according to my understanding, Nakian philosophy (Gurmat) is based on science and logic. It implores the use of common sense in the affairs of daily life and it lays stress on the importance of deliberation and research of subject matter in order to understand it in its true perspective." Dr Baldev Singh

Where does spirtiuality come into this?

[N30S1NGH]

On another note i like to quote from this singh khoj(research) on bhausaria mindset issue.

Regarding the teja singh Bhausuria view and Prof Sahib Singh View of the Bhatt Sawaiyai they differ but both reject them.

The Puratan View is that 16 Bhatts were the veds each split in four and Bhikha being Brahma. There is a further Bhatt by the name of 'Rad' who was Narad Muni who had come to join the Bhatts in seeking the protection of the Nirinkari Jot Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

Prof Sahib Singh like Kala Afgana and Bhausuri rejected the story of the Veds and Brahma being involved in anything to do with Sikhi due to their racial prejudices and refuted the uthanika found in the Faridkot Teeka. In order to eliminate this theory they stated that their were infact only 11 Bhatts. Such as Kal, Kalsuhar and Tal being the same person writing under different names.

They then further rejected the Bhatt Savaiyai being bani due to - 1) being unable to decipher the correct interpretations of gurbani, 2) due to ignorance. They thought that bani of the Bhatts stated that The avtars of vishnu were equivalent to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. If one listens to the katha of the sant samaj it will show that this is incorrect but due to Sahib Singh and Bhausau stating that each tuk of Gurbani only had one meaning they were unable to show the real meanings of this pauri. This pauri is explained on sikhawareness from the katha of Sant Sukhchen singh Ji. This line actually shows the plight in Kaljug and the only possible saviour was God themselves and Vishnu was unable to come down as his next avtar is at the end of this Jug as the great manifestation of Kalki.

First thing i want to say to groups influenced by bhausaria mindset regarding this matter of the Bhatt Sawaiyai is if you accept that the Bhatts were only 11 and wrote under different names as suggested by Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara then why is it hard for you to accept Guru Gobind Singh Ji writing under the names of Shyam and Ram? Hypocrites

Although Shyam is the name used to compose the Krishan Avtar as that was the name for Krishna. They wrote the Avtar Bani from the view of the manifestaion themselves. Such as Ram Avtar under the name of Ram as if the great diety was wringin it themselves.

The Bani of Satta and Balvand was also rejected as they believed there was no place for manmukhs in bani. As ithaas states Satta and Balwand left Guru Sahib due to ego and greed for maya. Although they later came back and the shelter for all Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji brought them back into the panth. They try to forget this incident altogether and for this reason do not acknowledge the bani of the two great keertanees.

[Charandhoor Singh]

Namastang Ji can I ask where that is from? thanks.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

which organisation have similar thinking to that of bhausaria?

[B4ND4]

^^ Dunno about the organization but people like you are no better :lol:

[N30S1NGH]

which organisation have similar thinking to that of bhausaria?

As i said earlier, this has nothing to do with specific organizations but to do with bhausaria mindset which is shared by all across main stream sikhi. Its like a twisted mentality, you know how in punjabi culture parents dont want their child to marry anyone from different caste regardless be it jatt, ramgharia, mazbhi etc, twisted mentality all across..same thing when we talk about bhausaria twisted mindset/mentality, its all across, therefore not bound to specific organization.

Lets just target bhausaria mindset instead of specific organization via parchar, because root of the problem will not solved if we start targeting specific organizations via parchar, rather it will created vicious chain reaction with element of disunity and hostitlity against each other groups/we be against our own brothers. But If we target bhasuaria mindset/mentality via parchar people who do have bhausaria influence or have element of bhausaria influence will change their mindset automatically if their mindset meant to change once other side diversity/gyan/contributions/arguments are shown via doing parchar. All we can do with sehaj keep doing parchar against the mindset without offending anyone.

I would rather follow foot steps of great bhramgyanis parchariks like sant attar singh ji mustaneywale/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale and other sant mandali mahapursh than witch haunting specific organization, that wont get us anywhere just around the circles- tu tu mein mein.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

^^ Dunno about the organization but people like you are no better <_<

thank you. its true. lol

[chatrik]

^^ Dunno about the organization but people like you are no better <_<

I would have never had the guts to say that :WW: , but I agree