Beadbi Alert - Camps

[GDD]

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa

waheguru Jee kee Fateh

If stopping a gurdwara taking Maharaaj to a school for pracharik reasons is beadbi then so is taking maharaaj to national camps. There are camps held in training centres and army barrocks all over the country - I don't disagree with camps at all, im all for them because they are doing parchar - but we all know what goes on at army bases, sharaab and tobacco consumption. Why don't we hold these camps at Gurdwaray? Capacity isn't a problem at alot of Gurdwaray, and if it is then isn't it best to put Maharaaj first and not hold a camp rather than risk "beadbi" at an army base/training centre?

Recent camps have been held on premises where cigarette butts have been found on the floor, where there have been bars on the same premises. Why do we choose to ignore these issues? Is it because these camps are backed by jathebandia that have a lot of clout and backing? Is it becuase we ourselves are part of these jathbandia?

Where do we draw the line? R4G started off well...but I don't think even they are able to control a minority groups that are shouting "beadbi" every two days. Their reputation is being damaged by these few small minded people.

Don't get me wrong, I have stood with R4G in the past and I have alot of respect for them, but there is no room for double standards anymore. Any word that is used too much again and again loses it value and thats what has happened to the word "beadbi". When you say it people turn off and aren't willing to listen anymore because its a term used for everything these days.

We need to concentrate on our paath, our own jeevans before we start pointing fingers at other people. Do we earn an honest living? Do we make money by bending the rules? Can we think for ourselves without having anyone blowing in our ear and influencing us before we can make a decision on what beadbi is?

Singhs in the dal take Maharaaj everywhere with them. Prachariks like Mahapursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale took Maharaaj from pind to pind to do katha and parchar. Have we forgotten how great these people were? How great this seva was. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji not stand outside a brothel to prevent Bhai Joga Singh from being enticed to going in? Was that beadbi? How many more stories do we need to hear about our sikh girls running off with muslims before we take serious action? Is that not "beadbi" of the panth? It sure is.

Where there's a parchaar issue think before you forward text messages and emails containing lies. This minority of small minded people are pumping up the sangat with lies when they want to take personal vendettas against committees when they don't gert their own way.

I am not against any parcharik issues or any camps, clearly taking Maharaaj to a hall where sharab etc is being served is wrong and we should take action, and rightly so. But the recent fuss about a school gym which had never been hired out for any reason was going too far.

Wake up people. Don't make the rules up as you go along. Think before being used as puppets by a small minority that use the words "beadbi" and call themselves R4G when clearly they are a splinter group and not part of that organisation.

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa

waheguru Jee kee Fateh

[GDD]

What about the "kirtan in the park" event?

What about Nishkaam sevak jatha holding smagams in parks?

What about people's houses?

What about the the mel (dirt) within ourselves - yet we still carry maharaaj on our heads don't we?

Where do we stop?

[wakeupsingho]

truesay - lets not be hypocrites

[Golee Maro]

I agree with this thread and these comments.

I personally love the events such as Kirtan In The Park and so-forth BUT if wannabe militants have something to say about Maharaj being taken to a childrens school gymnasium, then the same rule (even though im against it) should be applied to all. Not singling out a few poor organisers.

One thing though - i dont believe that R4G was involved with this particular issue at the school but there should be a more global ruling and more definitive approach rather coz at the moment, u got lil kidz going on forumz raising a hoo-haa when they dont know jack *@#t. People seem to be making their own rules here. We (as the Khalsa) need to start speaking in one voice about these issues - we gotta start somewhere.

[rupinder singh]

R4G needs to form a more rigid structure otherwise it's open to abuse by people who will hijack the campaign to imaturely fight their on agendas. The text messages sent out rblowing the school issue out of proportion was titled "R4G alert", clearly people are taking advantage of the platform set up by the original Singhs. Unless R4G become more vocal again then their silence will only give an open ticket to the troublemakers who want to have it out with other people and use the beadbi excuse.

At the end of the day if these specific people want to stick to each and every technicallity of the Akal Takht Hukumnama then stop the camps from taking Maharaj's saroops to army barracks and conference suites. Like the veer said above we have Gurdwaras which can easily accomodate these camps.

Remembering back to when 300 saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were transported on coaches from southall to east park road Gurdwara. Those coaches would be otherwise used for carrying drunken wedding guests, but some self appointed panthic people made the decision of placing 300 saroops on coaches was allowable. This decision was made as logistically it was the easiest cost effective way of transporting the saroops. Again technically this can be classed as "beadbi" too. Where does it end? One mans sharda could easily be seen anothers mans beadbi!!!

[Revolutionary]

muahahahaaa i knew this thread would pop up..

[GDD]

R4G needs to form a more rigid structure otherwise it's open to abuse by people who will hijack the campaign to imaturely fight their on agendas. The text messages sent out rblowing the school issue out of proportion was titled "R4G alert", clearly people are taking advantage of the platform set up by the original Singhs. Unless R4G become more vocal again then their silence will only give an open ticket to the troublemakers who want to have it out with other people and use the beadbi excuse.

At the end of the day if these specific people want to stick to each and every technicallity of the Akal Takht Hukumnama then stop the camps from taking Maharaj's saroops to army barracks and conference suites. Like the veer said above we have Gurdwaras which can easily accomodate these camps.

There were key people from R4G that turned up to protest. We won't name names but I don't know why we shouldn't as the pardaan's name was mentioned in a previous thread without any moderators note.

[GDD]

This was the PRESS RELEASE email sent to me on behalf of Gurdwara. Hard copies are available from the Gurdwara.

28th January 2008

Vaahiguroo Jee Kaa Khalsaa

Vaahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh

Sadh sangat jee, Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar would like to present the following facts in order to clear any malicious rumours being spread by a hateful minority, concerning the event celebrating the Gurpurb of Guru Gobind Singh jee in the gym at Little Ilford School, Manor Park.

Fact: the school has made it clear that the gym has NEVER been hired out on any occasion to the public. The rumours spread through the internet and via text messages state that the gym could have been used for parties; could, being the operative word.

Fact: the gym has been inspected by Panj Singhs and there is nothing that could be regarded as disrespectful or a lack of Satkaar for Guru Jee or Maryada.

Constant abusive phone calls received by the Gurdwara were entirely uncalled for. The language used by third parties was not that of so-called “gursikhs.” Moreover, receiving threatening behaviour, both on the phone and in person only fuels the situation further. Arriving at the Gurdwara in intimidating numbers and behaving threateningly is counter-productive.

Preparations have been made at the school gym to ensure the utmost Satkaar of Guru Granth Sahib Jee. It is very easy for a minority of petty individuals to use the word “beadbi” for any occasion which they see fit. There is no beadbi here. The Akaal Takhat Hukamnama and Sandesh clearly state when and where Guru Ji should not be taken - there has never been any alcohol or meat consumed in the gym. We suggest the individuals concerned read these two documents.

Maharaaj is regularly taken to tents in parks or fields, to assembly halls and army barracks, for nawjwaan camps and samagams. How clean is a park where people may roam freely smoking and drinking? How clean is an army base or a training centre where alcohol has knowingly been consumed? Yet we don’t see any of these particular individuals preventing “beadbi” from happening under these circumstances.

Please do not misunderstand us, we support all Sikh camps and events across the world, they are doing something positive; PARCHAAR. Clearly, these individuals do not see the value of parchaar, and see this event as a mere excuse to cause trouble by falsely claiming beadbi of

Maharaaj. We are absolutely certain that these so-called “saviours of the panth” will not be attempting to prevent such camps from occurring, so why in this case should the rules be any different?

Sadh sangat jee, today is a very sad day. Today, Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar regrets to inform the sangat that Maharaaj Guru Granth Granth Sahib Jee will not be present at the event celebrating Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s Gurpurb. We have taken this decision to prevent the disrespect of Maharaaj Guru Granth Sahib Jee by this group while taking Maharaaj to the event. Additionally, with the media present the reputation and portrayal of the Sikh community would also be damaged.

We understand that some youngsters may have been lead astray by a mere few and we urge them to think twice before assuming a position based on rumours started by a minority.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar

East London

[SaRpAnCh]

R4G no longer exists due to certain people - ie: informers or people you could say got 'shook', and also a vendetta against R4G and Jasvinder Singh Ubhi by a group named 'Guru Manio Granth' & certian people

Due to all this its well known R4G no longer exists in the UK,as certian jathe and people messed things up

[JustME]

So this is to become the state of the "Family" i gave my head to? :mellow: