Sick Of It!

[Guroo Guroo Jaap]

1st of all, plz 4give me Sangat as i am talking out of anger here and obv anger is bad 4 an Amritdhaari.

Basically i went to one of my local Gurdware (rahmgaria Gurdwara) and i was reading the "rules and regualtions" of joining the comittee. At the top it said "must follow the teachings of the 10 Gurus" then under that it said "must b ramgaria by birth" and it is for that reason i was not accepted in the comittee, for i put "Khalsa" there instead of ramgaria! I have sent them countless letters trying to get them to change the name of the Gurdwara, but they've all seemed to find their way in2 da bin. I put up sum pictures of Shaheeds on the walls and got shouted at by nearly everyone there because it was not a "Sikh thing to do". No one talks to me anymore because i wear a Dhumalla and not a kenyian Pag (and its allll my family that go there!!! cousins unlces etc) every1 is going by caste there. Even the Gyanis. Im at this point where this is really gettin me so mad and i feel like hitting the pardan!!

I then noticed while looking on the web for other Gurdware around the country that only 1 had the word "Khalsa" in it. And about 50 odd had ramgaria!!!!! I know its up to us youth to change all this but y is nothing happenin?? I want to start some sort of campaign to change all the names of the Gurdware in england to something the Guru's would approve of!!!

Sangats views?

[rupinder singh]

1st of all, plz 4give me Sangat as i am talking out of anger here and obv anger is bad 4 an Amritdhaari.

Basically i went to one of my local Gurdware (rahmgaria Gurdwara) and i was reading the "rules and regualtions" of joining the comittee. At the top it said "must follow the teachings of the 10 Gurus" then under that it said "must b ramgaria by birth" and it is for that reason i was not accepted in the comittee, for i put "Khalsa" there instead of ramgaria! I have sent them countless letters trying to get them to change the name of the Gurdwara, but they've all seemed to find their way in2 da bin. I put up sum pictures of Shaheeds on the walls and got shouted at by nearly everyone there because it was not a "Sikh thing to do". No one talks to me anymore because i wear a Dhumalla and not a kenyian Pag (and its allll my family that go there!!! cousins unlces etc) every1 is going by caste there. Even the Gyanis. Im at this point where this is really gettin me so mad and i feel like hitting the pardan!!

I then noticed while looking on the web for other Gurdware around the country that only 1 had the word "Khalsa" in it. And about 50 odd had ramgaria!!!!! I know its up to us youth to change all this but y is nothing happenin?? I want to start some sort of campaign to change all the names of the Gurdware in england to something the Guru's would approve of!!!

Sangats views?

The ramgharias are near extinction. With the global shortage of starch, the species are collapsing from exhaustion having to fold and tie their dastaars every day. The only thing that can save the ramgharia nation from loosing its cultural heritage is a discovery of infinite starch powder.

[Guest peacemaker]

"must b ramgaria by birth"

Remove that sign and don't give it back to them!!!!

[Matheen]

I feel your pain.

They've completely lost the plot. Still, it's not as bad as in Kenya.....yet.

[Into the Light]

Gurfateh Rajdeep Singh

you've taken the correct steps, you've noticed that something needs to be changed and realised that the only way this change is ever going to come about is get into the committee. As you've stated you're abit different now and that has now been noticed so getting into the committee becomes that much harder but don't let that dishearten you...convert your frustration into the drive...drive to get into the committee.

you need to get support from the local sangat, show your committment to doing parchar to the youth and get enough people to realise this quality within you and they'll be able to get you into the committee...i guaranttee you

i know this sounds kind of bad but sometimes you have to play it down abit..ie not putting Shaheed Singh pictures about the Gurdwara and just 'play the part'. Once your in the committe and the local sangat sees the amount of change you've implmeneted, no-one will be able to kick you out. Trust me, no matter how much you try you won't be able to change the mindset of the elders, so i would advise not to, you will only push them away. Just concentrate on doing parchaar for the youth, who you can change.

trying to change the name of the Gurdwara is unfortunately a far fetched dream just yet, but if the correct parchar starts now, the next generation will agree and such a change can occurr. But for the time being don't focus your attention to it...because the bigger picture is parchaar for the youth...otherwise you yourself will close the doors to get into the committee.

sounds bad but sometimes you have to 'play up abit' to get your foot into the door

[rupinder singh]

Can Ramgharia parentage be proved by DNA profiling? Are Ramgharia kids born with a chisel or spanner in their hands.

Anyway, enough mucking about. To get to the root of the problem we need to understand where it started going wrong. From what I have been told by a “right wing” Ramgharia is that the main emphasis in issuing the Ramgharia by birth rules was a quick fix solution in the mid 1980’s to ensure the non-takeover off their Gurdwaras by the “miltants” or Khalistanis of the 1980s who were presumed to be Jatts.

[Matheen]

Rupinder Singh,

the problem started in the 1950s and 60s in East Africa, when the Singh Sabha Gurdwarae made it difficult for non Jatts to become committee members. In retaliation, the Ramgharias set up their own Gurdwarae and brought that mentality with them to the UK when many of them moved here in the 70s and 80s, along with other 'bad habits'.

Hopefully, as the old caste obsessed pardhans give way to younger Sikhs, we might have a chance to get rid of caste based Gurdwarae.

[Fruity.]

Do gurdwareh actually do enough for the community? or are they just there to look nice and preety?

[rupinder singh]

Rupinder Singh,

the problem started in the 1950s and 60s in East Africa, when the Singh Sabha Gurdwarae made it difficult for non Jatts to become committee members. In retaliation, the Ramgharias set up their own Gurdwarae and brought that mentality with them to the UK when many of them moved here in the 70s and 80s, along with other 'bad habits'.

Hopefully, as the old caste obsessed pardhans give way to younger Sikhs, we might have a chance to get rid of caste based Gurdwarae.

Caste or "Biridari" run Guru Ghars goes back even pre-Africa days. Even today in certain villages in Punjab you will find that the lower "caste" associated Sikhs cannot enter certain Gurdwaras. Even Anand Karajs cannot be conducted in certain Pinda de Gurdwaray unless the couple are Zamindars.

Going back to Ramgaria Gurdwaras, from my lunderstanding the Birmingham, Coventry, Slough and Leeds Gurdwaras set up the "Ramgharia by birth" rule as late as the mid 1980's in paranoia of a potential Khalistani takeover. By ensuring no Jatts could enter the committee they assumed that they could remain detached from the issues in Punjab and protect the golak money from being used for the alleged purchase of tanks and arms. Prior to that I know for a fact Coventry Ramgharia Gurdwara had no official rule stopping a non-Ramgharia standing in the committee.

[apne]

The root of all problems is golak money. The finest example is ravidasi cult.