Name Your Pinds

[Premi5]

Does anyone have an idea of approximately what the percentage of Doaba-Malwa-Majha population is in the UK? And the same regarding Italy, and US? I know there would be no official numbers, just estimates.

[S1ngh]

West coast california wise:

Bay Area, Stockton, Sacramento : majority doaba

Fresno, Bakersfield : all malwa

East coast: you will see majha people in and around DC area etc

[Premi5]

West coast california wise:

Bay Area, Stockton, Sacramento : majority doaba

Fresno, Bakersfield : all malwa

East coast: you will see majha people in and around DC area etc

Cool, that's very interesting.

[samosasingh]

Actually, after doing some research the last couple of days, I was right. A very very large proportion of the Sikhs that had to leave Pakistan were settled in what is today Haryana, including a very very large number in the rural Rohtak area. I've got my information from the reports by the 2 men that were charged with alocating land to the refugees : Tarlok Singh and Mr Randhawa, as heads of the Ministry of Rehabilitation, set up at that time. Before I state where the reports say each group of Sikhs were settled in there are 2 important points to note. At partition, the State Government of Punjab was given responsibility to re-settle the rural Punjabis (mostly Sikhs) whereas it was the Central Government in Delhi's responsibility to re-settle the urban population (mostly Hindus). So I'm basically talking about rural Sikhs here. The other important point to note, according to the reports, is that the massive population of the Lyallpur and Montgomery Sikhs, because they were so politically powerfull, were given first choice to settle anywhere they wanted. Because , as canal colonists, they were originally from areas of east punjab anyway (mostly majha), they mostly re-settled in their anscestoral lands there and also Ferozpur district which, although technically Malwa, has histroically had a close link with the Amritsar and Gurdaspur areas of Majhas. The report also points out how, sadly, the offspring of the original sikh misl leaders and ranjit singh, in Gujjranwala and Sheikepura districts, were the last on the list to re-settle and thus ended up in far flung places such as U.P and uttrakhand, or at least the worst lands that nobody else wanted. Doaba, took relatively very few sikh refugees.

So, here's where sikhs were re-settled,and I have to say, having stopped in villages deep in Haryana many times over the years and noticed how the pends there seem to have exactly the same proportion of farming sikhs as Punjabi pends, it doesn't surprise me too much, And , remember once again, that the canal colony sikhs (known as colonists) don't appear on the list because they were given free reign to pick the best lands wherever they wanted . Also, the list applies only to what the report terms rural 'Land-Owners' :

1) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Lahore district and Non-Colonists from Montgomery District were resettled in FEROZPUR DISTRICT (PUNJAB)

2) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Rawalpindi district, Sheikhupura district and Gujranwala District were resettled in KARNAL DISTRICT (HARYANA)

3) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Shahpur district and Gujrat District were resettled in AMBALA DISTRICT (HARYANA)

4) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Multan District were resettled in HISSAR DISTRICT (HARYANA)

5) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Jhang District and Muzafargarh District were resettled in ROHTAK DISTRICT (HARYANA)

6) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Dera Ghazikhan District and Mianwali District were resettled in GURGAON DISTRICT (HARYANA)

7) Agricultural land-owning Sikhs from Sialkot District were resettled in HOSHIARPUR DISTRICT, AMRITSAR DISTRICT AND GURDASPUR DISTRICT (PUNJAB)

So.....there you go. Its nice for us, the Sikh diaspora, to learn about each other. Next time you meet a brother or sister in any part of the world, its nice to able to know who they are, where they come from, and how they got there....as well as why they speak the way they speak.

I would agree with these findings we were from Multan and were re-settled in Hissar (Haryana) Pind: Diwana

My Nanke were from Gujranwala and here re-settled in shahbaad Markanda (Haryana) which is near Karnal.

Both sides of my family are Jat's and rich land holders.

My dad's side traces its connections to the times of Guru Nanak Sahib as he visited Multan and our village in Multan was the birthplace of Bhagat Farid ji.

Sikhi is a huge diaspora which is very strong outside of Punjab. Doaba region Sikhi is dead right now, they were also considered very backward/poor area's. The majority first settlers who came to England were from these areas and they were the ones who did hard labour as they weren't educted but it has paid off as they are flourishing overseas. But there basic nature is pindu hence they don't know how to hold themselves with tact and grace so they feel the need top show off and put down hence the NRI culture/vulgar songs/bling bling etc etc. You usually won't find that towards the chandigarh/ludhaia side - people are generally more educated and not as pindu.

[Premi5]

Interesting info. I think UK is now considered a third or fourth option for this wanting to go foreign after US, Canada, possibly Australia

[West London Singh]

Doaba region Sikhi is dead right now

Not really. It depends how you look at things. If your basis of how much Sikhi there is in the proportion of men with kes then yes, you could argue that Sikhi is not strong there. However, if you look at it from the point of view that the other regions have so many men with with dastars on their heads and yet indulge in besharm behaviour such as smoking, drinking and drugs etc then one could argue that Sikhi is stronger in doaba in that there is quality over quantity.

They were also considered very backward/poor area's

Thats actually the total opposite of how doaba always has, and continues to, look at the other regions.

Looking at the present though, doaba is practically the only region in Punjab that hasn't got epidemic rates of drug addiction. If you were to visit all 3 regions today the first thing you notice in the rural areas is how far behind malwa and majha are in terms of development. In the doaba villages you will be hard pressed to find any old house still standing. In terms of money coming in from overseas they have had a 100 year head start compared to malwa and majha. It's diaspora have ensured 50 or 60 years of extremely high land prices, given it's perennial seller's market. This is something malwa has only seen in recent times given it's recent diaspora in Canada and the staggering rise of Ludhiana as an economic powerhouse.

Does anyone have an idea of approximately what the percentage of Doaba-Malwa-Majha population is in the UK? And the same regarding Italy, and US? I know there would be no official numbers, just estimates.

The UK is overwhelmingly doaba, the malwais don't even get a look in here they are so small in numbers. Basically, if you look at all the old established communities such as the UK ,Yuba City in California and New Zealand etc, the character has always been overwhelingly doaba, especially when you consider how much of the East African Sikhs were also originally from doaba. The Malwai diaspora has been a very recent phenonema in comparison.

Italy, right now, has about 150,000 Sikhs. Having heard them often on the Sikh Channel my guess would be that most of them are from Doaba as that is the dialect you most hear from their mouths.

[DailyMail]

Premi5: "Interesting info. I think UK is now considered a third or fourth option for this wanting to go foreign after US, Canada, possibly Australia"

The UK has become the most difficult country to enter in recent years. Student visa crackdown, fraudulent colleges blacklisted (those which sponser indian students), not to mention the new rules to marry a non-EU (a salary of £18,600 minimum: easier for Londoners, not so easy for non Londoners)...on the other hand, Canada and NZ and Australia are begging for people and are dishing out PR as if it's going out of fashion.

Samosasingh: "Doaba region Sikhi is dead right now, they were also considered very backward/poor area's. The majority first settlers who came to England were from these areas and they were the ones who did hard labour as they weren't educted but it has paid off as they are flourishing overseas. But there basic nature is pindu hence they don't know how to hold themselves with tact and grace so they feel the need top show off and put down hence the NRI culture/vulgar songs/bling bling etc etc. You usually won't find that towards the chandigarh/ludhaia side - people are generally more educated and not as pindu.Doaba region Sikhi is dead right now, they were also considered very backward/poor area's. The majority first settlers who came to England were from these areas and they were the ones who did hard labour as they weren't educted but it has paid off as they are flourishing overseas. But there basic nature is pindu hence they don't know how to hold themselves with tact and grace so they feel the need top show off and put down hence the NRI culture/vulgar songs/bling bling etc etc. You usually won't find that towards the chandigarh/ludhaia side - people are generally more educated and not as pindu".

Doaba is more advanced than Malwa and Majha by at least a century. I keep abreast of current affairs and I can tell you, although its only anecdotal evidence, that the majority of the crime committed by british punjabis/sikhs tends to be by people whose orgins are outside of doaba. Whilst the UK is majority doaba, in the last 10 years or so we have had a small influx from other areas and I'm sorry to say, when it comes to dodgy dealings, perverse behaviour, or otherwise, usually (not always) the roads lead to majha or malwa. Of course, there are exceptions. There is a well known Sikh immigration lawyer who has also confirmed what alot of people always knew, that the Sikh men who marry their sisters (yes, you read that correctly) in order to gain entry into Canada, especially the Toronto area, are malwai. Due to this, the Canadian Immigration Department introduced compulsory DNA testing! Before, simply providing wedding day photos were sufficient. But such was the chusst chalaki of these people, that DNA testing had to be introduced. So thats the legacy of malwai's in Canada for you.

[Premi5]

"Italy, right now, has about 150,000 Sikhs. Having heard them often on the Sikh Channel my guess would be that most of them are from Doaba as that is the dialect you most hear from their mouths."

West London Singh, what you say is in contrast to what you said in february 2012

"I've found the Italian sangat to be a very good mix of doaba, malwa and majha". Lol. It seems you've changed your opinion.

[West London Singh]

"Italy, right now, has about 150,000 Sikhs. Having heard them often on the Sikh Channel my guess would be that most of them are from Doaba as that is the dialect you most hear from their mouths."

West London Singh, what you say is in contrast to what you said in february 2012

"I've found the Italian sangat to be a very good mix of doaba, malwa and majha". Lol. It seems you've changed your opinion.

Thats exactly what it is my friend: An 'Opinion'. And opinions themselves are formed from what we see and hear. Previously, having visited a freshie relative there living in a house full of malwais majhails it is natural I should have formed that opinion. As I stated in the previous message however, having listened to the many broadcasts from Italy on the Sikh Channel this last year or so, most of the sangat there appear to be speaking in the Doaba dialect.

A man asked a question and I chose not to ignore him and attempted to answer it. Simple as that.

Unless and untill I embark on a detailed survey of them, individualy questioning all 150,000 of them, all we can have is an opinion.

[Premi5]

Thats exactly what it is my friend: An 'Opinion'. And opinions themselves are formed from what we see and hear. Previously, having visited a freshie relative there living in a house full of malwais majhails it is natural I should have formed that opinion. As I stated in the previous message however, having listened to the many broadcasts from Italy on the Sikh Channel this last year or so, most of the sangat there appear to be speaking in the Doaba dialect.

A man asked a question and I chose not to ignore him and attempted to answer it. Simple as that.

Unless and untill I embark on a detailed survey of them, individualy questioning all 150,000 of them, all we can have is an opinion.

Apologies West London Singh if the tone of my previous post seemed demeaning. Of course anyone can change their opinion depending on their new experiences. You say there are about 150000, does anyone know how quickly this population has grown (it seems to me that a lot of emigration has occurred perhaps only in the last ten years), and how many Sikhs are emigrating each year currently?