New Nirmala Website

[big5abi]

I think everyone on here knows im referring to Bhindran when I'm speaking about Sant Sunder Singh.

In no way am i lacking respect for their hastis. I know who they are and what they have achieved.

To suggest such things because of a missing title is childish.

[Aparadhee]

panthic rehit maryada is very clear on this issue

taksal is veyr clear on this, mahapursh such as sant gurbachan singh ji and bhi randhir singh are clear on this, along with others from puratan jathebandis

the ideals for khalsa have been set by guru gobind singh, guru sahib is clear on this. so whoever deviates from these ideals does it on their own accord. our role model is guru sahib and guru sahib only.

we are very quick to label everyone as brahmgianis in a attempt to support our arguements. unfortunately for you guys, its not that simple

brahmgiani ki gat brahmgiani jaaneh

sorry for any offense

[Bijla Singh]

ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ

ਵਿ- ਸਹਜ (ਗਾਨ) ਧਾਰਣ ਵਾਲਾ. ਵਿਚਾਰਵਾਨ। ੨. ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਧਾਰਣਾ ਵਾਲਾ. ਸੌਖੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ੩. ਸੰਗਾ- ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦਾ ਇੱਕ ਅੰਗ, ਜੋ ਖੰਡੇ ਦਾ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪਾਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਕੱਛ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਖਦਾ, ਪਰ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਿਨਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੋਰ ਧਰਮਪੁਸਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ. *

ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ

. * ਪੰਜਾਬ ਅਤੇ ਸਿੰਧ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਗਿਨਤੀ ਦੇ ਹਨ. ਾਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਿੰਧ ਦੇ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਵਡੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੀ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼੍ਰੱਧਾਵਾਨ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਸਿੰਘ, ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਰਤ ਦੀ ਨਿਗਾਹ ਨਾਲ ਵੇਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਸਿੱਖ ਧਰਮ ਤੋਂ ਆਣ ਹਨ

He is correct and I do not disagree. Notice that he does not state that sehajdharis are monay. History shows that sehajdharis did not take Amrit (eventually they did) but kept hair and rehat. Those who take Amrit and then cut hair become patit. They are no longer part of the Panth. Sehajdharis are from non-Sikh families. A Hindu or Muslim slowly adopting Sikhi will be called sehajdhari whereas a person born in Sikh family becomes patit after cutting hair. Bhai Sahib also does not state that kakkars are optional or exceptions. I think we can leave sehajdhari topic aside as it doesn’t relate to Nirmalas.

Piara Singh Padam mentions 5 nirmale singhs were blessed by sri guru gobind singh ji before amrit sanchar because of date - 1686. Nirmala order was itself, established by Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the 1690s, on the banks of the river Yamuna, at Sri Paonta Sahib.

Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji sent five Singhs, by the names of Baba Karam Singh, Baba Vir Singh, Baba Ganda Singh, Baba Saina Singh and Baba Ram Singh

Above two are contradictory. If five Sikhs were sent before 1699 then they shouldn’t have “Singh” as last names. If they were sent in 1690 or early 1690s then they would’ve returned by 1699 and taken Amrit. If they were sent after 1699 (highly unlikely though possible) then Guru Sahib would not have asked them to take their kakkars off and then made them exception. In fact, no history source states that Sikhs took off their kakkars. I have read them changing their dress but no mention of taking kakkars off or cutting hair. Nirmalas and Sehajdharis are two different things. Guru Sahib’s attire is mentioned in many sources but not a single one states taking kakkars off. No history source mentions Guru Sahib abandoning kakkars (especially kirpan) after he stopped all the wars at Damdama Sahib. He did not fight when he still kept a kirpan which shows it wasn’t optional or required only during war times.

Sant Attar Singh and Baba Nand Singh were Amritdhari gursikhs and that’s how they reached high spiritual avastha. Taking off kakkars later on does not negate their significance or shouldn’t lead one to believe that they become useless after turiya avastha. In fact, kakkars and rehat are foundation of spirituality because that’s when true jeevan begins. One simply doesn’t disregard the foundation after erecting a tower. I respect them highly and their jeevan has inspired me a lot but I do not agree with them taking their kakkars off permanently (they might have taken them off temporarily). Mayee Bhaag Kaur at one time forgot all about worldly things and paid no attention to her clothes and kakkars. Guru Sahib called upon her and instructed her to wear proper attire and himself blessed her with Dastaar. There is no mention of kakkars becoming optional after reaching certain stage in Gurbani, Vaars, Kabits, Rehatnamas, historical sources and Dasam Granth etc. They are mandatory and will always be. Thanks for the other info and I will study Nirmala history at one point. Perhaps you can copy the info from sikhawareness here because it requires me to login and I am not registered. Guru Rakha

big5abi, I called Nirmalas a sect but I meant it in terms of group not in terms of a cult. Picture you posted is not credible evidence. Anyone can paint anything. What I find funny is that people supporting and associated with groups which allegedly started by Guru Sahib or Pyaras are the one insulting others and resort to name calling instead of keeping calm. They are the first ones to get angry and become intolerant.

[supadupa]

...nirmal panth...

[big5abi]

Whether you mentioned it as a group you still used the word sect. Sect means a group which is regarded as heretical.

As long as someone denies the truth I will always be intolerant as I don't have the avastha to react any differently.

[Bijla Singh]

I have edited the post and changed the words to group. It wasn't my intention to insult those groups or jathas.

[big5abi]

much appreciated

[valli singh]

Bijla Singh,

In your previous post you have enumerated far too many self-serving delusions for me to address in ten posts let alone one.

You seem to be one of those slippery scholars who love to demand references from others, but who offer none to consolidate their own baseless claims, though, should you choose to disobey this self-imposed double standard I can't imagine that your obviously ultraradical and reactionary perspective of Sikhi would allow you to quote anyone residing on the outskirts of your aforesaid worldview.

That is a very fanciful fairytale you have concocted about Baba Sri Chand who was recognized as the most eminent fakir of his times by all, Guru Ram Das himself called Sri Chand ji a complete brahmgiani, check any Udasi source material and you will find Baba Gurditta ji listed as Sri Chand's successor. Though this fact seems impalatable for you.

Secondly, I was not invoking Khalistan and all it implies connotatively in my reply to Mrs. Gupt Kaur, I was using the term khalistani dismissively in it's vague pejorative sense to encapsulate the fanatical bent displayed by the aforementioned poster.

Thirdly, Purataan Sikh History prior to the arrival of the British IS ALL Sanataan for want of a better term.

Fourthly, you asked for sources regarding Sikh views of cow-slaughter, here they are:

1. In Bhai Mani Singh's Pothi Janam Sakhi of Guru Nanak he relates the following conversation between Guru Sahib and God in which Guruji states;

"By your grace, I have turned the wheel of the Dharma of the 'name of Truth' in three directions of India, and the fourth direction of the west remains. In that fourth direction, the Mlecchas are guilty of the murder of cows and Brahmins. They have defiled all the pure bathing places (on the banks of rivers) and pilgrimage sites of the Hindus. They are idolaters and they call the tombs and walls of Mecca and Medina, the house of Allah, and worship it. And even still, they don't consider themselves idolaters while they themselves worship stones. Thus, if it be Your will, then (after) going to Mecca and Medina to give those Mlecchas the teachings of the 'name of Truth', I shall return."

2. In Uggardanti Bani, Guru Gobind Singh ji asks for divine intervention so that he may "exterminate the foriegners who abominate by slaughtering cows".

3.Bhai Gurdas Vaar 17 Pauri 21 Counting the slanderers and apostates:

Millions are slanderers, millions are apostates and millions of wicked persons are untrue to their salt.

Unfaithful, ungrateful, thieves, vagabonds and millions of other infamous persons are there.

Thousands are there who are slayers of Brahmin, cow, and their own family.

Why did Abdali and other plunderers desecrate Darbara Sahib and Tham Sahib by bathing them in the blood of cows and clog the holy sarovers therearound with the carcasses and entrails of cows, why would he consider that such an inflammatory insult to Sikhs if we didn't at least respect cows (although cows are obviously not worshipped by Sikhs).

Why did Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahiib give Bhai Kanhaiyaji SevaPanthi the hukam to build havens for cows?

I must admire your impartiality as you have even provided a link to your own post as evidence.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Anyway, Khalsa Panth all the way, as the topic has soo may viewings

We are behind by over 50,000 chaupai sahibs now, Benti in the charan of Guru Sahib Jees Panth Be it Khalsa panth or Nirmal Panth, to help out and do jaap.

www.chaupaisahib.org

Check after 4min

Fateh

[valli singh]

UK Gupt Kaur

You are obviously a self-righteous Neo-Sikh khalistani ignoramous

possessing NO knowledge of Purataan Sikh history prior to the arrival of the British and the SGPC.

First of all cows are sacred in Indian culture and Sikh Philosphy because the cow is the highest birth in lakh chaurasi, and thus the transmigratory chain can be seen as an evolutionary process extending from non-sentient mineral lifeforms and sentient insectoids and rising through the reptilian and mamalian species (such as the cow) before progressing into the human form.

This is why the consumption of beef is considered such a sin, Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh ji were VERY vocal about enforcing the death penalty upon the killers of cows, and they even refered to themselves many times as being 'Gopal' or the protectors of cows. In Khalsa Raj under Maharaja Ranjit Singh it was also a hanging offense to kill cows, Sri Baba Sahib Singh Bedi Maharaj exterminated whole villages of beef-eaters simply for killing cows. Are these Mahapurukhs attached to bipran ki reet as you so eloquently put it?

Sant Darbara Singh was a maste fakir and pooran brahmgyani who had darshan of Dashmesh Pita, what do you know of that Gurmat?

Santji forcibly shut down many meat production plants in Punjab and rescued the cows that is upholding God's Dharam, at Lopon they are respected and not put under any strain, if they were given away how would their safety be ensured.

There is no such thing as the cow being sacred or highest form before mankind. I dont know which SGGSJ you have been getting your Gian from but it aint the same Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that we all read from. .

Your saint is sure teaching you bipran ke reet no doubt about that.

Your stories about Guru ji enforcing death penalties is utter rubish and made up by most likely brahmins who want to distort Sikh history.

Your unitelligable post reveals nothing other than your struggles with illiteracy,

I called you a khalistani in the pejorative and not connotative sense, meaning I was dismissing the incredulous anger you expressed in your fanatic ravings above which are indicative of a non-inclusive Sikhism which frowns upon diversity in the Panth as you obviously do.

I actually DO NOT follow these Sants or the Nirmala Sampardai, but I do know their history and thus I respect them, if you had nothing positve to say you shouldn't have spoken as you were forewarned.

If Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj didn't impose capital punishment on cow killers why did he ask for divine intervention to "exterminate the foriegners who abominate cow slaughter" in his Uggardanti Bani?

Guru Amardas ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji says:

If a Brahmin kills a cow or a female infant, and accepts the offerings of an evil person, he is cursed with the leprosy of curses and criticism; he is forever and ever filled with egotistical pride.

Kabir Sahib also denounces the killing of cows in his bani.

'bipran ki reet' is the favorite phrase of Kala Afghana, so I can see where you picked it up.