Niddar Singh & Buddha Dal

[chhokaranwala]

I agree Raju

the whole mess was a typical machievllian strategy applied by the GOI

look at the mess they created with the Babri Masjid, with Assam, with the Naxalites etc and even with pumping up people like Raj Thackery in Maharashtra today

but I also feel that some of our leaders acted extremely dangeroulsy and without reason with the same attempts at cheap political gains at the expense of innocent lives

and by the way I have never read or even heard of 50000 Hindus surrouding Darbar Sahib, have you got any links or proofs

[Raju]

the will of the people was for khalistan as shown in 1989 elections in punjab when khalistani's won seats in a landslide victory and government was formed and headed by pro khalistan united akali dal party who themseles won 10 of the 13 seats. the leader of the party simaranjit singh mann was not allowed in indian parliament to press there claim for an independant state by democratic means. the will of the people was met with oppression so the sikhs had to fight for their right of self determination.

I still think veer that both sides were wrong.

As someone who was around in 84 and saw the massacre (not riots) I would say that Nehru's dynasty had done a biggest disservice to India. Such small people like Indira are not worthy of ruling a diverse nation.

As far as SAD Mann is concerned, creating independent Khalistan at that time will mean disintegeration of the Indian state. Because Khalistan will immidiately tie-up with Pakistan and both will be supported by US and UK. The only loser will be India. So any Indian would not be comfortable with that thought, because the very life and peace of the country is at stake. If at all SS Mann had to go about seeking Khalistan, it should have been done in a more discreet way and not challenging India outright.

OTH the Indian Govt was represent in Punjab by pusillanimous Hindus of the likes of Gobind Ram, who after centuries of living as 'dhimmis' first under Mughals and then under Sikh tried to humiliate Sikhs and remove his own inferiority complex in the guise of establishing peace and writ of the state. Bringing order in Punjab should have been completely restored to Sikhs themselves rather than bring in Hindus with an axe to grind in the picture.

It also seemed very petty, that the same Hindus for whom Sikhs had laid down their lives repaid their maganimity in the Gobind Ram'esque manner.

So there was ill-will and mistrust all around. The only mistake that can't be washed away is the killing of innocent lives by Govt of India agents like Gobind Ram, these lives can't ever come back. Those killed in 84, and those widowed can't get their lives back and just because those open wounds were created in the past, this issue will not resolve easily.

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

the will of the people was for khalistan as shown in 1989 elections in punjab when khalistani's won seats in a landslide victory and government was formed and headed by pro khalistan united akali dal party who themseles won 10 of the 13 seats. the leader of the party simaranjit singh mann was not allowed in indian parliament to press there claim for an independant state by democratic means. the will of the people was met with oppression so the sikhs had to fight for their right of self determination.

I still think veer that both sides were wrong.

As someone who was around in 84 and saw the massacre (not riots) I would say that Nehru's dynasty had done a biggest disservice to India. Such small people like Indira are not worthy of ruling a diverse nation.

As far as SAD Mann is concerned, creating independent Khalistan at that time will mean disintegeration of the Indian state. Because Khalistan will immidiately tie-up with Pakistan and both will be supported by US and UK. The only loser will be India. So any Indian would not be comfortable with that thought, because the very life and peace of the country is at stake. If at all SS Mann had to go about seeking Khalistan, it should have been done in a more discreet way and not challenging India outright.

OTH the Indian Govt was represent in Punjab by pusillanimous Hindus of the likes of Gobind Ram, who after centuries of living as 'dhimmis' first under Mughals and then under Sikh tried to humiliate Sikhs and remove his own inferiority complex in the guise of establishing peace and writ of the state. Bringing order in Punjab should have been completely restored to Sikhs themselves rather than bring in Hindus with an axe to grind in the picture.

It also seemed very petty, that the same Hindus for whom Sikhs had laid down their lives repaid their maganimity in the Gobind Ram'esque manner.

So there was ill-will and mistrust all around. The only mistake that can't be washed away is the killing of innocent lives by Govt of India agents like Gobind Ram, these lives can't ever come back. Those killed in 84, and those widowed can't get their lives back and just because those open wounds were created in the past, this issue will not resolve easily.

I would agree with alot of what you said.

But with reference to Mann Sahib he was democratically elected to speak for the people of punjab. If they wanted to an independant state then under international law it should have been given as people have the right to self determination. Killing a group of people to stop a country being spilt up is genocide. just to stop your country being split is not a good enough reason to kill a group of people. under international law people have the right to self determination.

I still cant see myself what is stopping the indian govt from doing all this again? Theyve proven they will do it time and time again. Whats changed to stop it happening again?

To others on this forum who so easily disrespect the memories of the Kharkoo's, atleast those singhs and singhnia showed the govt that commiting crimes against the sikhs will not be tolerated. Only because of them the GOI would think twice.

[Raju]

But what is stopping the indian govt from doing all this again?

To others on this forum who so easily disrespect the memories of the Kharkoo's, atleast those singhs and singhnia showed the govt that commiting crimes against the sikhs will not be tolerated.

there is no assurance that for eg a BJP led Indian Govt would not try the same stunt Congress did in 84 with muslims or Christians. No guarantees whatsoever.

Only guarantee is that the Hindu baniya and baniya-minded will think twice before any disruption and international disrepute hits his pocket book.

Sikhs must have complete control over Punjab and Northern India within 3-4 years, or else BJP will impose itself and it's idelogy over everyone else. We need to fight back, but this time through covert means more than overt. The battle of hearts & minds is also important.

Finally all Indians are extremely guilty that something like this against Sikhs happened, whether they be RSS supporters or BJP supporters, though they may have another hidden agenda to absorb Sikhs within hindu fold, nevertheless they feel guilt for what happened in 84. They seek a chance to repent, and that chance must be given to them.

this will also make the hands of Sikhs much stronger ultimately. And if Sikhs gain strength the other minorities in India will also be comparitively safer. So all hands on deck.

[Raju]

Also if cards are played well, and the security situation in India is same as what it is now, there is a good chance that within the next 3-4 years all Indians could be converted to Sikh fold.

[hawk13]

I do not support Sant Bhindranwale nor do I support Govt of India. I believe IndiraG used tried to pump up Bhindranwale to face the Akalis and humiliate them at their home turf just as the Congress of today is using Raj Thackeray to brow beat Shiv Sena in Maharashtra. IndiraG, in true dictatorial and family corporate style, since that is how Cong party is run, forgave slight misdemeanours by Bhindranwale and his supporters when they casually bumped off those who were inimical to their movement and terrorised others, all in the vain belief that Bhindranwale would rise against Akalis and she would have the last laugh.

Finally the whole experiment turned out quite contrary to her expecations, but instead of taking responsibility for her screw-up and stepping down she decided to teach Sikhs a lesson instead.

For this mistake of this pompous woman, we lost countless lives. this dynasty rule has made the life of the whole country miserable.

It is no wonder that Mahatma Gandhi when he heard news that the British had announced their decision to leave India, asked Congress party to be immidiately dissolved because it had already served it purpose. He probably foresaw what was to come.

asee theory sant ji being congress men is created by leftists in 1981 according former vice chief of indian army gen sinha in 1981 he was ordered to use tanks and other heavy arms by indian army but he refused can anyone order to kill if he was congress man? secondly it is wrong to compare sant ji with thackre shiv sena who r running even brothels in maharastra? it is notion which u took againist from antisikh leftists what akalis u r talking about who has sold their womenfolk to congress leaders badals has matrimonial relations with kairon family sant longowal nephews had joined congress even pagal buddha h.s surjit used to lick shoes of indira gandhi leftists r biggest hypocrists even wrost than rss. Tohra destroyed the evidence of operation bluestar go to punjab SANT JI is biggest heros during nagar kirtans pro bhindrawale slogans r raised he is biggest hero of sikhs even strongest role model. Even hardliners sikh groups r like akali dal international openly display khalstan and bhindrawale posters in their vehicles in thousands apart from mann dal and damdami taksal activists,