Enemies Of The Panth

[Harjeet.Singh]

WELDONE FOR STATING THE OBVIOUS.

I know but you sounded like you didn't understand. Just don't want people to become all fanatical about these issues. Because they might start taking an islamic approach to things. Risking their lives for stupid things. might be obvious to you, but not everyone.

[SarabhaPanjab]

WELDONE FOR STATING THE OBVIOUS.

I know but you sounded like you didn't understand. Just don't want people to become all fanatical about these issues. Because they might start taking an islamic approach to things. Risking their lives for stupid things. might be obvious to you, but not everyone.

Singh's have always risked their lives to take out dusht. some became shaheeds, some in jail..so they were wrong?

whats ur point exactly?

Mod Note: it is always important to remember the temporal and spiritual vices. Both are equal in the battle we face today. So please dont bash anyone for putting this suggestion forward. Each is entitled to their view and voice their opinion.

[Harjeet.Singh]

You are raising issues, and it is easy for people to become heavily involved in the issues, whilst forgetting the true aim of it.

I mean you want people to act against these cults, to save sikhi. But the people can get caught up in it. And start to hate the cult for personal reasons. Then they might get involved in violence for the wrong reasons, whilst forgetting the are actually trying to defend sikhi, and forgetting our basic sikhi values.

I was just trying to say, its all good what you are doing, but remember who we are fighting for and what we actually stand for, but not to get caught up in the midst of anger, hatred and violence. Generally just male things, that males like to do. Because it is easy to get caught up in that kind of stuff.

That is what i mean by not taking an "islamic approach" but going into things whilst remembering our basic sikhi tenants, because it is easy for us to forget and just get caught up in attacking people. Because it is something males like to do. Beat up somoeone whenenver they get the chance, all they need is a good reason. and this is creating a reason but whilst doing the act they might forget the true aim, which is to defend sikhi, but instead they might just get involved for pleasure.

I know you might think this is obvious, but sometimes people do forget why they are doing something in the first place, and end up fighting for the drama, whilst sikhi principles are lost. My point was go into things with your sikhi in mind first, don't get so caught up in "trying to defend sikhi" that you actually stop practising sikhi yourself e.g. because you forget to do bani, simran and forget our virtues etc or start to think its not important. Or we just become hippcrites. We here for righteousness, so do things in a righteouss way. Because if we forget, we will end up like the musalman. Suicide bombing for unjust reasons and stuff and personal revenge.

Obviously the shaheeds of the past had a just cause, but don't forget the cause and end up turning it personal. Remember what sikhi stands for, let no one insult us but do it in the right way. Don't forget we are always trying to defend, always but we never attack. Thats what i don't want people doing, attacking. In sikhi we always are ready to defend, but don't take it too far, e.g. kill someone if you dont have to. Or risk your own life just to satisfy your anger, whilst actually forgetting about sikhi.

[Dharam Judh]

Kookay not Naamdharis, we need to get it right

Naamdharis is the wrong word to refer to these Nigureh! They should be reffered to as kookay!

Radhasoamis are another one!

Gurbax gulshan

Kala afghana

inderjit ghagga

I'll put a bit more detail on this when i get a chance.

[Khaalis]

If you are going to hatemonger, at least get your facts right.

NAME: NAMDHARIS

REASONS:

twisting Gurbani – Actually, Namdhari are known for having an extremely high puratan standard of Shud Gurbani Ucharan. Sants such as Baba Jageet Singh Harkowal Vale and Baba Hari Singh Randhava Vale have high regard for Namdhari Samprada. Their puratan NITNEM is similar to the Nihangs, and they recite Akaal Ustat, Chandi di Vaar, Ugardanti etc. There is much we can learn from them in the field of Gurbani ucharan. Aside from the ‘neelai’ matter in Asa Di Vaar, which they back up via a saying recorded of 10th Master Sri Partap Suraj Prakash (rightly or wrongly – the point being the change was not intitiated by them – it was present amongst Nirmala thought already), I have not come across any other change in meanings. Regarding interpretation – anyone who has listened to kathha of 2 people from the same jathaa, let alone from different jathaas, know that it can vary between person/goup.

misguiding our Panjabi Brothers and Sisters into cultism – This is rubbish, Namdhari are not a conversion seeking group. They have a large self sustaining community which has been around for 150 years. They have their own take on history and prophecy (which they are born into), but outside of that they keep many valuable maryadai alive. They do not seek converts – they only tell their point of view – this makes them different from the aforementioned cults.

Using the True Gurbani Shabads to attract people – In case you missed a trick, as per Khalsa of old – the Namdhari grant respect to both Aad Guru and Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. These remain the nucleus of Namdhari parchaar – to their sangat! They are not interested in attracting people – they have no need to. Unlike mainstream Sikhs, Namdhari generally remain devote in their Sampyada, nearly all of them being amritdhari and keeping rehit. There numbers are not dwindling.

only to misguide them away from the Khalsa Panth – See above.

living "satgurus" have higher status than Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji – Yes this is a subject of contention. But in reality they treat their Guru as anyone would a Sant – as a teacher and guide – who gives guidance over life and ensures their rehit is strictly adhered too. It is unfortunate that this one difference separates what would otherwise be a highly pristine group in terms preserving Sikhi of old i.e. Gurus kirtan, simran, shudh ucharan, NITNEM etc. We hope and pray that if we keep our arms open, one day our Namdhari brothers will unite with us under the glory of Aad Guru Granth Sahib. If we keep separating and hating, instead of seeing their many goods, we will simply force them to hate us back and further evolve their movement when their prophecy does not manifest.

change of the 5 K's (no kirpan) – Actually, Baba Ram Singh is the one who preached all Singh to not remain unarmed after the British banned kirpans post 2nd Anglo-Sikh war. He himself carried a laathi and asked all other Singhs to do the same. He put the kirpan in the Kanga (as a symbol) and replaced the gatra with a woollen maala. This was only ever supposed to be a temporary measure – like when you have to take off your kirpan on a place (many Singhs without knowning it use the Namdari kanga (with kirpan in it) to somehow keep their 5 kakaar intact. Its simply a case of an un-reverted change. Its pathetic even mentioning it. Seva Panthi, Nirmalai and Udasin who formed the parchaarak, academic and sant group of the old Khalsa were not 5 kakaari, even though 10th Master started the Nirmala and seva panthi movement. Its pathetic to even mention this.

Indian Government fund this groups activities – This is the standard unchecked response by our uneducated youth today. Just because they may have seen a photo of a politician paying his respects to Baba Jagjeet Singh at Bhaini Sahib, its automatically assumed they are funded. They don’t need to be funded, they have an economically successful sangat all around the world as well as India – their land has been theirs when they were fighting the British and giving unparalleled shaheediyan during a time most Sikhs were broken down. Nonsense.

[SarabhaPanjab]

If you are going to hatemonger, at least get your facts right.

NAME: NAMDHARIS

REASONS:

twisting Gurbani – Actually, Namdhari are known for having an extremely high puratan standard of Shud Gurbani Ucharan. Sants such as Baba Jageet Singh Harkowal Vale and Baba Hari Singh Randhava Vale have high regard for Namdhari Samprada. Their puratan NITNEM is similar to the Nihangs, and they recite Akaal Ustat, Chandi di Vaar, Ugardanti etc. There is much we can learn from them in the field of Gurbani ucharan. Aside from the ‘neelai’ matter in Asa Di Vaar, which they back up via a saying recorded of 10th Master Sri Partap Suraj Prakash (rightly or wrongly – the point being the change was not intitiated by them – it was present amongst Nirmala thought already), I have not come across any other change in meanings. Regarding interpretation – anyone who has listened to kathha of 2 people from the same jathaa, let alone from different jathaas, know that it can vary between person/goup.

misguiding our Panjabi Brothers and Sisters into cultism – This is rubbish, Namdhari are not a conversion seeking group. They have a large self sustaining community which has been around for 150 years. They have their own take on history and prophecy (which they are born into), but outside of that they keep many valuable maryadai alive. They do not seek converts – they only tell their point of view – this makes them different from the aforementioned cults.

Using the True Gurbani Shabads to attract people – In case you missed a trick, as per Khalsa of old – the Namdhari grant respect to both Aad Guru and Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. These remain the nucleus of Namdhari parchaar – to their sangat! They are not interested in attracting people – they have no need to. Unlike mainstream Sikhs, Namdhari generally remain devote in their Sampyada, nearly all of them being amritdhari and keeping rehit. There numbers are not dwindling.

only to misguide them away from the Khalsa Panth – See above.

living "satgurus" have higher status than Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji – Yes this is a subject of contention. But in reality they treat their Guru as anyone would a Sant – as a teacher and guide – who gives guidance over life and ensures their rehit is strictly adhered too. It is unfortunate that this one difference separates what would otherwise be a highly pristine group in terms preserving Sikhi of old i.e. Gurus kirtan, simran, shudh ucharan, NITNEM etc. We hope and pray that if we keep our arms open, one day our Namdhari brothers will unite with us under the glory of Aad Guru Granth Sahib. If we keep separating and hating, instead of seeing their many goods, we will simply force them to hate us back and further evolve their movement when their prophecy does not manifest.

change of the 5 K's (no kirpan) – Actually, Baba Ram Singh is the one who preached all Singh to not remain unarmed after the British banned kirpans post 2nd Anglo-Sikh war. He himself carried a laathi and asked all other Singhs to do the same. He put the kirpan in the Kanga (as a symbol) and replaced the gatra with a woollen maala. This was only ever supposed to be a temporary measure – like when you have to take off your kirpan on a place (many Singhs without knowning it use the Namdari kanga (with kirpan in it) to somehow keep their 5 kakaar intact. Its simply a case of an un-reverted change. Its pathetic even mentioning it. Seva Panthi, Nirmalai and Udasin who formed the parchaarak, academic and sant group of the old Khalsa were not 5 kakaari, even though 10th Master started the Nirmala and seva panthi movement. Its pathetic to even mention this.

Indian Government fund this groups activities – This is the standard unchecked response by our uneducated youth today. Just because they may have seen a photo of a politician paying his respects to Baba Jagjeet Singh at Bhaini Sahib, its automatically assumed they are funded. They don’t need to be funded, they have an economically successful sangat all around the world as well as India – their land has been theirs when they were fighting the British and giving unparalleled shaheediyan during a time most Sikhs were broken down. Nonsense.

SO YOUR SAYING YES THEY DO BELEIVE LIVING SATGURU'S?

YES THEY HAVE SUBSITUTED THE KIRPAN (REAL SHASHTAR) FOR A MICKEY MOUSE KANGA WITH A TINY KIRPAN PRINTED ON IT?

I AGREE THE BABBAR AKALI MOVEMENT AGAINST THE BRITISH WAS LEAD BY THE NAMDHARIS, AND YES THEY GAVE MANY SHAHEEDIYAN, AND WENT TO KAAL PAANI AGAINST THE BRITISH. BUT THE TOPIC IS HERE ABOUT THE WRONG PARCHAR.

I FOR ONE WOULD BE WEARY OF ANY OF MY BROTHERS OR SISTERS GOING TO THESE PEOPLE.

YES THEY DO READ GURBANI BUT THE CONCEPT OF KHANDE BAATE THE AMRIT, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHRAAJ INITIATED HAS BEEN CHANGED. HENCE THEY CAN NEVER BE KNOWN AS PART OF THE KHALSA.

YOU HAVE BASICALLY AGREED WITH EVERYTHING, YET MARKED IT AS A DISAGREEMENT?? WEIRD??

[Jujhar Singh]

oh im guessing 'Sarabha Panjab' doesn't believe in Guru Nanak Patshah?

[singh70]

EDITED - Insulting Panthic jathebandis not allowed.

[Dharam Judh]

oh im guessing 'Sarabha Panjab' doesn't believe in Guru Nanak Patshah?

Singh Sahib Ji, whats that supposed to mean?

Why is it when someone talks about these issues everybody gets offended. He hasnt stated anything anti-Sikhi, just highlighted a few clowns, including Jagjit Kooka. Whats wrong with that?

[Jujhar Singh]

Kookay not Naamdharis, we need to get it right

Naamdharis is the wrong word to refer to these Nigureh! They should be reffered to as kookay!

Radhasoamis are another one!

Gurbax gulshan

Kala afghana

inderjit ghagga

I'll put a bit more detail on this when i get a chance.

Namdhari's are nirgureh? major LOL

they've got a Guru? how does that make them nirgureh?

Use your brain Batman