Jump to content

Neeldhari?


Recommended Posts

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

It seems that they did not stop at Balak Singh as their Guru per this website:

http://neelabanna.weebly.com/neeldhari-sikh-guru.html

It's a bit odd, they also say:

The final form was given by the tenth and last Guru, Gobind Singh, who started the Sikh initiation ceremony: initiated Sikhs formed a community of saint-soldiers known as Khalsa, the Pure Ones. Guru Gobind Singh also made it clear that, after him, the Guru-eternal for Sikhs would be their holy scripture, Guru Granth Sahib.

So at one section, they are promoting a continued "Guru lineage" and at the other, they are saying that the Guru lineage ends with Dasam Patshah.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 79
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

No one should follow the Neeldhari group because they do not teach everything about Sikhi according to Gurmat. They have changed things so they are a distincted group, which brings them more members.

I think thats the duty of Akal Purakh/ SGGSji to judge not individuals like us. Sometimes One son is far better than other even though they born from one Mother.

Why should anyone believe your story? The Neeldhari group believe in a 12th Guru, Ram Singh.

Posted Images

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Thanks...I had heard similar before about the others listed as Sants. Another thing that was odd was that they do partake of Khanda-Batta Amrit, but their Nitnem Banis seem to negate Tav Prasad Saviyae, Chaupai sahib. I wonder if they use the 5 Amrit perparation Banis in the Amrit Sanchar.

Just curious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Thanks...I had heard similar before about the others listed as Sants. Another thing that was odd was that they do partake of Khanda-Batta Amrit, but their Nitnem Banis seem to negate Tav Prasad Saviyae, Chaupai sahib. I wonder if they use the 5 Amrit perparation Banis in the Amrit Sanchar.

Just curious.

Not sure what Neeldhari amrit sanchaars are like, but they recite all panj bania at amrit vela:

http://neelabanna.weebly.com/sjw_ji_2.html

Regards,

K.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sunny If your definition of panthic is whatever 'I' say is panthic, then you could consider them anti panthic. However they are not. When the Sant jee goes to harmander Sahib jee they are given saropa by the Jathedhar of Akal Takhat and respected.

Neeldharis take kandi bati dee amrit.

Neeldharis believe in the Guru granth Sahib as the guru. You can listen to the videos of Sant Harnam Singh kile wali going to a meeting about raag mala and bachan about believing Guru granth sahib jee as pargat gura kee deh. Its on Youtube.

Kam is correct. Neeldharis and Naamdharis split.

Harbaljeet Singh pipli kirtani is in the UK at the moment, I suggest you take your questions to them, im sure he will be willing to answer them. Or even better go to Pipli Sahib and discuss your issues with the Sant.

Watch this video, given by Kaur http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jwT2eEEHTZg They are bowing to their Baba.

Then this video just topped it off

These guy are not in the best interest of Sikhi. That's obvious. The Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone to many hieghts.

Our Bazorags used to matta tek to Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and then do namaskar to the sadh sangat, left and right they lower their heads with folded hands saying fateh jee. Today we like to spit rubbish at each other and then call namaskar beadbi.

If some people do something we label them all. Because Bhai Sahib Jaswinder Singh head granthi Harmander Sahib was dancing, i wonder if all Sikhs do not have best interest of Sikhi? He is head granthi after all, representing all of us and one of the Singh sahib jees. Compare Singh sahib jee to the video you posted who are some ppl from a village. Anyway your not going to do anything about the beadbi which feel you can see...

Did the Basorags also give money to the sangat and get down on there hands and knees and bow before the each individual in the sangat. Why make up statements to cover up lies when there are videos clearly showing these Neeldhari bow before a Baba.

Can keep your lies to yourself.

Its not lies. People will always do namasak of saints. Gursikha kee har dhoor dee, ham pappi bhee gat pai. I bow to all the saints, whether they be from Pipli sahib, hoti mardan samparda, Harkowal etc...

Tell me who do the Saints bow down too?? Tell me who Guru Nanak Dev ji bowed down too. When I see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. I don't bow to a saint, or a Guru. I bow to the Lord of the Saints and Guru. Once I have bowed down to the Lord in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what is the use to bow before a so called Saint who supposedly bows before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. When you bow before a so called Saint all you bowed down to is the body(dust). And you know where dust ends up. Now I get it your bowing to the Lord inside right!!!! Well that's just foolish because everyone has the Lord in them. True Saint have become one with the Lord, but will never consider themselves the Lord or even worthy of being called Saint. Listen to Sant Jarnail SIngh ji speeches. He says who made me into a Sant and who calls be a Sant. I never call myself a Sant, it is you the people who call me a Sant. Now that is a True Saint speaking. Look at Baba Deep Singh ji who gave his head. That is a True Saint and these Saints never allowed anyone to bow before them. They said bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

No Saint would even let you bow down before them. No saint would let you even regard their picture as high and bow down to it.

Moorakha gala na kara karo. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru is the Lord is the Saint, we(Sikhs) bow down too.

if you are not a papi like written in the above shabad, then dont bow and do namaskar. If people wish to do beta, its their own buddi. You are not going to stop them anyway.

Who said I will stop them. A moorakh can do whatever they want. Don't take one tuk and claim your right. Distorting Gurbani is a huge paap. By bowing before a Saint you are following the Muslim way, which regarded their prophet as the Lord. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji condemns all of this nonsense.

Like I said before, Guru granth sahib jee maharaj is where we all should matta tekh, after this namaskar of the sadh sangat and saints. Bazorags did satkar for Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and saints, todays sikhs only have satkar for themselves, hor koi duniya hoya nee.

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

I hope you will go to pipli sahib bhai jee and address the issues like i said before. Also go to Singh sahib jee about his actions. You have no contact with pipli sahib or neeldharis yet you have the confidence to strike them all down and pass judgement.

Don't worry the loins will wake up one of these days. Don't worry about what I do or did. Stick to the topic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

Vaise Only Five jee, tusin double standard play kar rahe ho. To one normal human being you are calling SANT yourself and to another you are not. WHY??

Both are bhagat of Waheguru, both are doing bhagati in their own ways. Both are spreading the word of SGGSji in their own ways, why you call one SANT and for another, you use this language.

Isn't it all our own mind's game?

To one it wanna admit, to another it doesn't.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

Vaise Only Five jee, tusin double standard play kar rahe ho. To one normal human being you are calling SANT yourself and to another you are not. WHY??

Both are bhagat of Waheguru, both are doing bhagati in their own ways. Both are spreading the word of SGGSji in their own ways, why you call one SANT and for another, you use this language.

Isn't it all our own mind's game?

To one it wanna admit, to another it doesn't.

Please read my post again. You missed the whole point. Well here is a question and the difference. Did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa let anyone bow down to him. Then ask yourself if Sant ji let anyone bow down to him in the presence Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa call himself a Sant?

The answer is NO! That is an attribute of a Sant. Who helps you to the Lord, not himself by letting people bow before him infront of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

And if you believe it's not wrong to bow before a 'Saint' then answer the question who does the 'Saint' bow down too.

Letting others bow down to you is not called bhagati. It's called hankar and complete foolishness.

It reminds me of the Sakhi when everyone was looking for the Ninth Master and you had all these pakandi Babas claiming I am him. Samething is happening now, only now the Guru Khalsa Panth is sleeping.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only Five jee, I was not actually commenting on Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala, I myself consider him Sant and Sipahi, true image of what Guru Gobind Singh jee wanted his SIkh to be.

I was commenting on your posts on other thread, where you call Dhandriwala baba as SANT. In my opinion, he is not SANT. he has done some of the things that you are mentioning in your post that Sant won't do. So saw your contradictory statements, thats why pointed out. I am ready to take him as Baba, Bhai, Bhagat or Gurmukh, but SANT avashtha doesn't go with this actions. SANTS don't have to answer to the lali chhali's song albums, U know. SANTS are attuned with GOD directly and convey HIS message to the sadhsangat, they set examples infront of the ones they want to improve, just like our Baba and SANT Guru Nanak did.

Thats all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only Five jee, I was not actually commenting on Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala, I myself consider him Sant and Sipahi, true image of what Guru Gobind Singh jee wanted his SIkh to be.

I was commenting on your posts on other thread, where you call Dhandriwala baba as SANT. In my opinion, he is not SANT. he has done some of the things that you are mentioning in your post that Sant won't do. So saw your contradictory statements, thats why pointed out. I am ready to take him as Baba, Bhai, Bhagat or Gurmukh, but SANT avashtha doesn't go with this actions. SANTS don't have to answer to the lali chhali's song albums, U know. SANTS are attuned with GOD directly and convey HIS message to the sadhsangat, they set examples infront of the ones they want to improve, just like our Baba and SANT Guru Nanak did.

Thats all.

What about Sant Baba Janrail Singh Ji Khalsa when others were accusing him of being a congress secret member. Did Sant ji give a response to these accusations. By your own statement by calling Ranjit Singh not a Sant by responding to Babbu Mann then Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa is not one either by the same token. When the air needs to be cleared the Sant's speak out. They don't hold their tongue.

Yes Ranjit Singh ji has made a mistake in the past. But what does a Sikh do after making a mistake. He went and apologized in Sri Akal Takht. And then again we have Sant Harnam Singh ji has he apologized for letting others bow down to him. Well he has passed on, but here people turn a blind eye.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest _moorak_

Sunny If your definition of panthic is whatever 'I' say is panthic, then you could consider them anti panthic. However they are not. When the Sant jee goes to harmander Sahib jee they are given saropa by the Jathedhar of Akal Takhat and respected.

Neeldharis take kandi bati dee amrit.

Neeldharis believe in the Guru granth Sahib as the guru. You can listen to the videos of Sant Harnam Singh kile wali going to a meeting about raag mala and bachan about believing Guru granth sahib jee as pargat gura kee deh. Its on Youtube.

Kam is correct. Neeldharis and Naamdharis split.

Harbaljeet Singh pipli kirtani is in the UK at the moment, I suggest you take your questions to them, im sure he will be willing to answer them. Or even better go to Pipli Sahib and discuss your issues with the Sant.

Watch this video, given by Kaur http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jwT2eEEHTZg They are bowing to their Baba.

Then this video just topped it off

These guy are not in the best interest of Sikhi. That's obvious. The Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone to many hieghts.

Our Bazorags used to matta tek to Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and then do namaskar to the sadh sangat, left and right they lower their heads with folded hands saying fateh jee. Today we like to spit rubbish at each other and then call namaskar beadbi.

If some people do something we label them all. Because Bhai Sahib Jaswinder Singh head granthi Harmander Sahib was dancing, i wonder if all Sikhs do not have best interest of Sikhi? He is head granthi after all, representing all of us and one of the Singh sahib jees. Compare Singh sahib jee to the video you posted who are some ppl from a village. Anyway your not going to do anything about the beadbi which feel you can see...

Did the Basorags also give money to the sangat and get down on there hands and knees and bow before the each individual in the sangat. Why make up statements to cover up lies when there are videos clearly showing these Neeldhari bow before a Baba.

Can keep your lies to yourself.

Its not lies. People will always do namasak of saints. Gursikha kee har dhoor dee, ham pappi bhee gat pai. I bow to all the saints, whether they be from Pipli sahib, hoti mardan samparda, Harkowal etc...

Tell me who do the Saints bow down too?? Tell me who Guru Nanak Dev ji bowed down too. When I see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. I don't bow to a saint, or a Guru. I bow to the Lord of the Saints and Guru. Once I have bowed down to the Lord in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what is the use to bow before a so called Saint who supposedly bows before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. When you bow before a so called Saint all you bowed down to is the body(dust). And you know where dust ends up. Now I get it your bowing to the Lord inside right!!!! Well that's just foolish because everyone has the Lord in them. True Saint have become one with the Lord, but will never consider themselves the Lord or even worthy of being called Saint. Listen to Sant Jarnail SIngh ji speeches. He says who made me into a Sant and who calls be a Sant. I never call myself a Sant, it is you the people who call me a Sant. Now that is a True Saint speaking. Look at Baba Deep Singh ji who gave his head. That is a True Saint and these Saints never allowed anyone to bow before them. They said bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

No Saint would even let you bow down before them. No saint would let you even regard their picture as high and bow down to it.

Moorakha gala na kara karo. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru is the Lord is the Saint, we(Sikhs) bow down too.

if you are not a papi like written in the above shabad, then dont bow and do namaskar. If people wish to do beta, its their own buddi. You are not going to stop them anyway.

Who said I will stop them. A moorakh can do whatever they want. Don't take one tuk and claim your right. Distorting Gurbani is a huge paap. By bowing before a Saint you are following the Muslim way, which regarded their prophet as the Lord. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji condemns all of this nonsense.

Like I said before, Guru granth sahib jee maharaj is where we all should matta tekh, after this namaskar of the sadh sangat and saints. Bazorags did satkar for Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and saints, todays sikhs only have satkar for themselves, hor koi duniya hoya nee.

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

I hope you will go to pipli sahib bhai jee and address the issues like i said before. Also go to Singh sahib jee about his actions. You have no contact with pipli sahib or neeldharis yet you have the confidence to strike them all down and pass judgement.

Don't worry the loins will wake up one of these days. Don't worry about what I do or did. Stick to the topic.

Bhai Sahib you are right I am a moorakh. Where does it say you cant do pairee haat? you are translating pairee haat as bowing (which is like maat tekhnaa) Han jee its true a sant never has ichaa for someone to bow to him, but when someone sees a brahmgiani they are not maat but they are showing satkar, in our culture touching of your papa, baba or dhaddi feet etc is normal, when its a saint fir kioo gussha? Because sant Jarnail Singh and other sants have no iccha it does not mean we cant do pairee hat to them. And even if someone does pairee haat to them, what will that sant do? saraaf karinga? only joking. What is the problem in doing satkaar? If you try to understand the difference between maat tekhna and pairree hat loohna, you will understand why people do pairee hat, infact bowing is the wrong translation, there is no word in English to describe it. Maybe because this form of satkar did not exist in the west, i dont know much about that culture. But you label them all foolish and moorakh, mithee boliyee hai. I also ask muafee, i used the word bow in my post, but when i looked at the translation, i realised what it means, and piaree haat is something else.

A saint can say he there is no difference between them and god. Tuhi mohe, mohe tuhi antar kesha. Bhagat Sahib jee said this. Once they reached that stage they can say this. Bhai Nand lal jee talks about Mansoor jee a muslim saint from Iraq. He was a saint and he said anal haaq. Why would Bhai Nand lal jee do such respect in his gazal of a saint if a saint could never say there is no difference between them and god? The problem is that we try to paint everything black and white and consider evertying outside of your experience and understanding as nonesene ... this problem is the reason why Mansoor had to face a painful death, Some people in the Dunyia have never understood the saints, they slander them and in the end have plans to kill them. But great are saints like mansoor who when being tortured to death ask parmatma for the bhalla of his killers. asi taa kesi da vee bhalla kardi neee... sara dunyia gwachaaa hai. Mansoor said hi parmatma these people who are torturing me have piyar for you, they think its kufar to say anal haaq, its not their fault.

Bhai Sahib jee, mahapurash say dont call people fools or hurt anyone with bad words, its bad for your avasta. you call people moorakh, foolish and you attack a whole community etc. mahapursh do the khata of Gurbani only, they say this because maharaj say ham nahee chungai bora nahee koi, pranvat nanak tari sohee. Maybe I have totally misundersood you. The shabad i gave parmaan is saying doing satkaar, pairee haat laah, your right im full of pap, thats why I do it.... ham papi bhee ghat hoee.

How can you say guru jee is not Parmeshar? Bhan Mathra kach bhed nahee, gur arjan partakh har. Its written that their is no difference between parmeshar and Guru jee, guru jees is partakh of haar. Gur parmesh ekhoo jaan... there are many other shabads. But again we are foolish in your eyes,...Parmeshar nirgun vee sargun vee hai

You said a moorakh can do whatever they want... why even comment if you think they can do whatever they want?

Do you have the chabee (key) to hell. vaisee tha Sikh Koi vee Narak naal saband rakhda na icha na dhar.

Its within the topic, the topic is neeldhari, you turned it onto sants, i simply asked what you are going to about the neeldharis. Or are you waiting for the same lions that killed Mansoor... ohh vee mor mor ki joon laihnde nee...but mansoor asked for bhalla......so who knows?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only five i take it you are one of these new to sikhi sikhs or have a really limited approach to sikhism

Did Sant Jarnail Singh Ji allow people to bow to him? The answer is yes, i know many people who state they did do so includingh sant major singh ji, sant hari singh ji and sant sukhchen singh ji

also you can see people doing matha to Sant Ji at Manji Sahib in the video below

Regarding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji what do you percieve when you see gurbani such as in salok mahalla 9

- Harjan Har Antar Nahi?

Or in the Dasam Granth

- Har Harjan Doei Ik Hai Bibi Bichar Kuch Nahi?

Sants play a pivitol role in Sikhism which is explained very well in Tirath Singh Nirmalas book called Vivek Pradipika. I suggest you give it a go

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sunny If your definition of panthic is whatever 'I' say is panthic, then you could consider them anti panthic. However they are not. When the Sant jee goes to harmander Sahib jee they are given saropa by the Jathedhar of Akal Takhat and respected.

Neeldharis take kandi bati dee amrit.

Neeldharis believe in the Guru granth Sahib as the guru. You can listen to the videos of Sant Harnam Singh kile wali going to a meeting about raag mala and bachan about believing Guru granth sahib jee as pargat gura kee deh. Its on Youtube.

Kam is correct. Neeldharis and Naamdharis split.

Harbaljeet Singh pipli kirtani is in the UK at the moment, I suggest you take your questions to them, im sure he will be willing to answer them. Or even better go to Pipli Sahib and discuss your issues with the Sant.

Watch this video, given by Kaur http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jwT2eEEHTZg They are bowing to their Baba.

Then this video just topped it off

These guy are not in the best interest of Sikhi. That's obvious. The Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone to many hieghts.

Our Bazorags used to matta tek to Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and then do namaskar to the sadh sangat, left and right they lower their heads with folded hands saying fateh jee. Today we like to spit rubbish at each other and then call namaskar beadbi.

If some people do something we label them all. Because Bhai Sahib Jaswinder Singh head granthi Harmander Sahib was dancing, i wonder if all Sikhs do not have best interest of Sikhi? He is head granthi after all, representing all of us and one of the Singh sahib jees. Compare Singh sahib jee to the video you posted who are some ppl from a village. Anyway your not going to do anything about the beadbi which feel you can see...

Did the Basorags also give money to the sangat and get down on there hands and knees and bow before the each individual in the sangat. Why make up statements to cover up lies when there are videos clearly showing these Neeldhari bow before a Baba.

Can keep your lies to yourself.

Its not lies. People will always do namasak of saints. Gursikha kee har dhoor dee, ham pappi bhee gat pai. I bow to all the saints, whether they be from Pipli sahib, hoti mardan samparda, Harkowal etc...

Tell me who do the Saints bow down too?? Tell me who Guru Nanak Dev ji bowed down too. When I see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. I don't bow to a saint, or a Guru. I bow to the Lord of the Saints and Guru. Once I have bowed down to the Lord in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what is the use to bow before a so called Saint who supposedly bows before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. When you bow before a so called Saint all you bowed down to is the body(dust). And you know where dust ends up. Now I get it your bowing to the Lord inside right!!!! Well that's just foolish because everyone has the Lord in them. True Saint have become one with the Lord, but will never consider themselves the Lord or even worthy of being called Saint. Listen to Sant Jarnail SIngh ji speeches. He says who made me into a Sant and who calls be a Sant. I never call myself a Sant, it is you the people who call me a Sant. Now that is a True Saint speaking. Look at Baba Deep Singh ji who gave his head. That is a True Saint and these Saints never allowed anyone to bow before them. They said bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

No Saint would even let you bow down before them. No saint would let you even regard their picture as high and bow down to it.

Moorakha gala na kara karo. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru is the Lord is the Saint, we(Sikhs) bow down too.

if you are not a papi like written in the above shabad, then dont bow and do namaskar. If people wish to do beta, its their own buddi. You are not going to stop them anyway.

Who said I will stop them. A moorakh can do whatever they want. Don't take one tuk and claim your right. Distorting Gurbani is a huge paap. By bowing before a Saint you are following the Muslim way, which regarded their prophet as the Lord. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji condemns all of this nonsense.

Like I said before, Guru granth sahib jee maharaj is where we all should matta tekh, after this namaskar of the sadh sangat and saints. Bazorags did satkar for Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and saints, todays sikhs only have satkar for themselves, hor koi duniya hoya nee.

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

I hope you will go to pipli sahib bhai jee and address the issues like i said before. Also go to Singh sahib jee about his actions. You have no contact with pipli sahib or neeldharis yet you have the confidence to strike them all down and pass judgement.

Don't worry the loins will wake up one of these days. Don't worry about what I do or did. Stick to the topic.

Bhai Sahib you are right I am a moorakh. Where does it say you cant do pairee haat? you are translating pairee haat as bowing (which is like maat tekhnaa) Han jee its true a sant never has ichaa for someone to bow to him, but when someone sees a brahmgiani they are not maat but they are showing satkar, in our culture touching of your papa, baba or dhaddi feet etc is normal, when its a saint fir kioo gussha? Because sant Jarnail Singh and other sants have no iccha it does not mean we cant do pairee hat to them. And even if someone does pairee haat to them, what will that sant do? saraaf karinga? only joking. What is the problem in doing satkaar? If you try to understand the difference between maat tekhna and pairree hat loohna, you will understand why people do pairee hat, infact bowing is the wrong translation, there is no word in English to describe it. Maybe because this form of satkar did not exist in the west, i dont know much about that culture. But you label them all foolish and moorakh, mithee boliyee hai. I also ask muafee, i used the word bow in my post, but when i looked at the translation, i realised what it means, and piaree haat is something else.

A saint can say he there is no difference between them and god. Tuhi mohe, mohe tuhi antar kesha. Bhagat Sahib jee said this. Once they reached that stage they can say this. Bhai Nand lal jee talks about Mansoor jee a muslim saint from Iraq. He was a saint and he said anal haaq. Why would Bhai Nand lal jee do such respect in his gazal of a saint if a saint could never say there is no difference between them and god? The problem is that we try to paint everything black and white and consider evertying outside of your experience and understanding as nonesene ... this problem is the reason why Mansoor had to face a painful death, Some people in the Dunyia have never understood the saints, they slander them and in the end have plans to kill them. But great are saints like mansoor who when being tortured to death ask parmatma for the bhalla of his killers. asi taa kesi da vee bhalla kardi neee... sara dunyia gwachaaa hai. Mansoor said hi parmatma these people who are torturing me have piyar for you, they think its kufar to say anal haaq, its not their fault.

Bhai Sahib jee, mahapurash say dont call people fools or hurt anyone with bad words, its bad for your avasta. you call people moorakh, foolish and you attack a whole community etc. mahapursh do the khata of Gurbani only, they say this because maharaj say ham nahee chungai bora nahee koi, pranvat nanak tari sohee. Maybe I have totally misundersood you. The shabad i gave parmaan is saying doing satkaar, pairee haat laah, your right im full of pap, thats why I do it.... ham papi bhee ghat hoee.

How can you say guru jee is not Parmeshar? Bhan Mathra kach bhed nahee, gur arjan partakh har. Its written that their is no difference between parmeshar and Guru jee, guru jees is partakh of haar. Gur parmesh ekhoo jaan... there are many other shabads. But again we are foolish in your eyes,...Parmeshar nirgun vee sargun vee hai

You said a moorakh can do whatever they want... why even comment if you think they can do whatever they want?

Do you have the chabee (key) to hell. vaisee tha Sikh Koi vee Narak naal saband rakhda na icha na dhar.

Its within the topic, the topic is neeldhari, you turned it onto sants, i simply asked what you are going to about the neeldharis. Or are you waiting for the same lions that killed Mansoor... ohh vee mor mor ki joon laihnde nee...but mansoor asked for bhalla......so who knows?

Moorak and kam1825 ji, when we bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, it means we are giving our head to Guru Sahib. I know some just bow as a formality. But in Sikhi bowing down to someone is seen as a huge thing. Look at the two youngest sons of Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. They wouldn't even lower their head for the mughal emporer.

So let's just clear the air when you, kam1825 are saying Singhs bowed before Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa are you sayin they bowed as you would bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or out of respect as one would do paaree hat?

Bowing before a Sant for respect is sending the wrong message out and it loses that meaning when we bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji especially when it's done in the presence of Guru Sahib. Some see that and think this Sant thinks hes equal to Guru Sahib?

And that's why I am so blunt about this.

Kam1825, the tuk you presented needs to be looked into further by yourself. No Saint will say bow down to me. He will always direct you to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Moorak, here is my stand on Guru Sahib, Gurbani says it best.

guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ]

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.

ang 53

And Moorak since you know much about the Neeldhari then tell me is the following with Gurbani. The below is their teaching.

How Lucky We Are To Be A NEELDHARI SIKH !

Just think how have we got this birth ?

The human form of life is given to you after 84 million births in different forms. These 84 million births are really terrible and horrible in which you are suppose to wash all your sins you created in previous births. After having done that 84 million times you are then born in the form of human being.

But more important is that once you are born as a NEELDHARI SIKH its sure that you would be a NEELDHARI SIKH for your next seven births. That means you are getting opportunities for seven times to make your life worth it, if you can. Then you are born as a human being for the 8th time, but if not, then you may go through 84 million terrible births. And the only thing that can help you get through these 84 million births is NAAM SIMRAN and obeying MAHARAJ JI'S words.

So realise the value of your life

and don't waste time...!!!

http://neelabanna.we...cky-we-are.html

And in the above who are they refering to as MAHARAJ JI"S words. And last, do they really do the lavan around a fire and if so is that Gurmat and why do they do it.

And this question to both. Who do the Sants bow down too???????

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest _moorakh_

Sunny If your definition of panthic is whatever 'I' say is panthic, then you could consider them anti panthic. However they are not. When the Sant jee goes to harmander Sahib jee they are given saropa by the Jathedhar of Akal Takhat and respected.

Neeldharis take kandi bati dee amrit.

Neeldharis believe in the Guru granth Sahib as the guru. You can listen to the videos of Sant Harnam Singh kile wali going to a meeting about raag mala and bachan about believing Guru granth sahib jee as pargat gura kee deh. Its on Youtube.

Kam is correct. Neeldharis and Naamdharis split.

Harbaljeet Singh pipli kirtani is in the UK at the moment, I suggest you take your questions to them, im sure he will be willing to answer them. Or even better go to Pipli Sahib and discuss your issues with the Sant.

Watch this video, given by Kaur http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jwT2eEEHTZg They are bowing to their Baba.

Then this video just topped it off

These guy are not in the best interest of Sikhi. That's obvious. The Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone to many hieghts.

Our Bazorags used to matta tek to Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and then do namaskar to the sadh sangat, left and right they lower their heads with folded hands saying fateh jee. Today we like to spit rubbish at each other and then call namaskar beadbi.

If some people do something we label them all. Because Bhai Sahib Jaswinder Singh head granthi Harmander Sahib was dancing, i wonder if all Sikhs do not have best interest of Sikhi? He is head granthi after all, representing all of us and one of the Singh sahib jees. Compare Singh sahib jee to the video you posted who are some ppl from a village. Anyway your not going to do anything about the beadbi which feel you can see...

Did the Basorags also give money to the sangat and get down on there hands and knees and bow before the each individual in the sangat. Why make up statements to cover up lies when there are videos clearly showing these Neeldhari bow before a Baba.

Can keep your lies to yourself.

Its not lies. People will always do namasak of saints. Gursikha kee har dhoor dee, ham pappi bhee gat pai. I bow to all the saints, whether they be from Pipli sahib, hoti mardan samparda, Harkowal etc...

Tell me who do the Saints bow down too?? Tell me who Guru Nanak Dev ji bowed down too. When I see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. I don't bow to a saint, or a Guru. I bow to the Lord of the Saints and Guru. Once I have bowed down to the Lord in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what is the use to bow before a so called Saint who supposedly bows before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. When you bow before a so called Saint all you bowed down to is the body(dust). And you know where dust ends up. Now I get it your bowing to the Lord inside right!!!! Well that's just foolish because everyone has the Lord in them. True Saint have become one with the Lord, but will never consider themselves the Lord or even worthy of being called Saint. Listen to Sant Jarnail SIngh ji speeches. He says who made me into a Sant and who calls be a Sant. I never call myself a Sant, it is you the people who call me a Sant. Now that is a True Saint speaking. Look at Baba Deep Singh ji who gave his head. That is a True Saint and these Saints never allowed anyone to bow before them. They said bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

No Saint would even let you bow down before them. No saint would let you even regard their picture as high and bow down to it.

Moorakha gala na kara karo. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru is the Lord is the Saint, we(Sikhs) bow down too.

if you are not a papi like written in the above shabad, then dont bow and do namaskar. If people wish to do beta, its their own buddi. You are not going to stop them anyway.

Who said I will stop them. A moorakh can do whatever they want. Don't take one tuk and claim your right. Distorting Gurbani is a huge paap. By bowing before a Saint you are following the Muslim way, which regarded their prophet as the Lord. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji condemns all of this nonsense.

Like I said before, Guru granth sahib jee maharaj is where we all should matta tekh, after this namaskar of the sadh sangat and saints. Bazorags did satkar for Guru Granth Sahib maharaj and saints, todays sikhs only have satkar for themselves, hor koi duniya hoya nee.

Listen to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and bow only to the Lord. The ones that bow to so called saints and Gurus are going straight to hell.

I hope you will go to pipli sahib bhai jee and address the issues like i said before. Also go to Singh sahib jee about his actions. You have no contact with pipli sahib or neeldharis yet you have the confidence to strike them all down and pass judgement.

Don't worry the loins will wake up one of these days. Don't worry about what I do or did. Stick to the topic.

Bhai Sahib you are right I am a moorakh. Where does it say you cant do pairee haat? you are translating pairee haat as bowing (which is like maat tekhnaa) Han jee its true a sant never has ichaa for someone to bow to him, but when someone sees a brahmgiani they are not maat but they are showing satkar, in our culture touching of your papa, baba or dhaddi feet etc is normal, when its a saint fir kioo gussha? Because sant Jarnail Singh and other sants have no iccha it does not mean we cant do pairee hat to them. And even if someone does pairee haat to them, what will that sant do? saraaf karinga? only joking. What is the problem in doing satkaar? If you try to understand the difference between maat tekhna and pairree hat loohna, you will understand why people do pairee hat, infact bowing is the wrong translation, there is no word in English to describe it. Maybe because this form of satkar did not exist in the west, i dont know much about that culture. But you label them all foolish and moorakh, mithee boliyee hai. I also ask muafee, i used the word bow in my post, but when i looked at the translation, i realised what it means, and piaree haat is something else.

A saint can say he there is no difference between them and god. Tuhi mohe, mohe tuhi antar kesha. Bhagat Sahib jee said this. Once they reached that stage they can say this. Bhai Nand lal jee talks about Mansoor jee a muslim saint from Iraq. He was a saint and he said anal haaq. Why would Bhai Nand lal jee do such respect in his gazal of a saint if a saint could never say there is no difference between them and god? The problem is that we try to paint everything black and white and consider evertying outside of your experience and understanding as nonesene ... this problem is the reason why Mansoor had to face a painful death, Some people in the Dunyia have never understood the saints, they slander them and in the end have plans to kill them. But great are saints like mansoor who when being tortured to death ask parmatma for the bhalla of his killers. asi taa kesi da vee bhalla kardi neee... sara dunyia gwachaaa hai. Mansoor said hi parmatma these people who are torturing me have piyar for you, they think its kufar to say anal haaq, its not their fault.

Bhai Sahib jee, mahapurash say dont call people fools or hurt anyone with bad words, its bad for your avasta. you call people moorakh, foolish and you attack a whole community etc. mahapursh do the khata of Gurbani only, they say this because maharaj say ham nahee chungai bora nahee koi, pranvat nanak tari sohee. Maybe I have totally misundersood you. The shabad i gave parmaan is saying doing satkaar, pairee haat laah, your right im full of pap, thats why I do it.... ham papi bhee ghat hoee.

How can you say guru jee is not Parmeshar? Bhan Mathra kach bhed nahee, gur arjan partakh har. Its written that their is no difference between parmeshar and Guru jee, guru jees is partakh of haar. Gur parmesh ekhoo jaan... there are many other shabads. But again we are foolish in your eyes,...Parmeshar nirgun vee sargun vee hai

You said a moorakh can do whatever they want... why even comment if you think they can do whatever they want?

Do you have the chabee (key) to hell. vaisee tha Sikh Koi vee Narak naal saband rakhda na icha na dhar.

Its within the topic, the topic is neeldhari, you turned it onto sants, i simply asked what you are going to about the neeldharis. Or are you waiting for the same lions that killed Mansoor... ohh vee mor mor ki joon laihnde nee...but mansoor asked for bhalla......so who knows?

Moorak and kam1825 ji, when we bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, it means we are giving our head to Guru Sahib. I know some just bow as a formality. But in Sikhi bowing down to someone is seen as a huge thing. Look at the two youngest sons of Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. They wouldn't even lower their head for the mughal emporer.

So let's just clear the air when you, kam1825 are saying Singhs bowed before Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa are you sayin they bowed as you would bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or out of respect as one would do paaree hat?

Bowing before a Sant for respect is sending the wrong message out and it loses that meaning when we bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji especially when it's done in the presence of Guru Sahib. Some see that and think this Sant thinks hes equal to Guru Sahib?

And that's why I am so blunt about this.

Kam1825, the tuk you presented needs to be looked into further by yourself. No Saint will say bow down to me. He will always direct you to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Moorak, here is my stand on Guru Sahib, Gurbani says it best.

guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ]

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.

ang 53

And Moorak since you know much about the Neeldhari then tell me is the following with Gurbani. The below is their teaching.

How Lucky We Are To Be A NEELDHARI SIKH !

Just think how have we got this birth ?

The human form of life is given to you after 84 million births in different forms. These 84 million births are really terrible and horrible in which you are suppose to wash all your sins you created in previous births. After having done that 84 million times you are then born in the form of human being.

But more important is that once you are born as a NEELDHARI SIKH its sure that you would be a NEELDHARI SIKH for your next seven births. That means you are getting opportunities for seven times to make your life worth it, if you can. Then you are born as a human being for the 8th time, but if not, then you may go through 84 million terrible births. And the only thing that can help you get through these 84 million births is NAAM SIMRAN and obeying MAHARAJ JI'S words.

So realise the value of your life

and don't waste time...!!!

http://neelabanna.we...cky-we-are.html

And in the above who are they refering to as MAHARAJ JI"S words. And last, do they really do the lavan around a fire and if so is that Gurmat and why do they do it.

And this question to both. Who do the Sants bow down too???????

bhai sahib why did you not try and translate the shabad bhan mathra kach bhed nahee gur arjan partakh har (ang 1409)? Why not translate Bha jee Kam qoutes if you disagree? Some more shabads from the website where you copied and pasted the translation:

jg Aauru n Xwih mhw qm mY Avqwru aujwgru Awin kIAau ]

jag aour n yaahi mehaa tham mai avathaar oujaagar aan keeao ||

In the great darkness of this world, the Lord revealed Himself, incarnated as Guru Arjun. (ang 1409

qqu ibcwru XhY mQurw jg qwrn kau Avqwru bnwXau ]

thath bichaar yehai mathhuraa jag thaaran ko avathaar banaayo ||

O Mat'huraa, consider this essential truth: to save the world, the Lord incarnated Himself.

guru Arjunu Gir gur rwmdws AprMpru bIxw ]3]

gur arajun ghar gur raamadhaas apara(n)par beenaa ||3||

In the House of Guru Raam Daas, Guru Arjun has appeared as the Embodiment of the Infinite Lord. ||3||

AwsMBau audivAau purKu pUrn ibDwqau ]

aasa(n)bho oudhaviao purakh pooran bidhhaatho ||

The Self-existent, Perfect Primal Lord God Creator has taken birth.

qU siqguru chu jugI Awip Awpy prmysru ]

thoo sathigur chahu jugee aap aapae paramaesar ||

You are the True Guru, throughout the four ages; You Yourself are the Transcendent Lord.

Awid jugwid Anwid klw DwrI iqRhu loAh ]

aadh jugaadh anaadh kalaa dhhaaree thrihu loah ||

You are the Primal Lord God, from the very beginning, and throughout the ages; Your Power supports the three worlds. (in praise of Guru rRam Das jee)

iek bwbw Akwl rUpu dUjw rbwbI mrdwnw]

eik baabaa akaal roop dhoojaa rabaabee maradhaanaa||

Firstly, Baba himself was in the form of Timeless and secondly, he had his companion Mardana, the rebeck player. (bhai Gurdas jee)

Guru Nanank DEv jee was Akal Roop, All the gurus are partakh haar. You should read bhatta di swayai from start to finish and you will see there are many other shabads. So why do you call this nonesense? You make attacks on neeldharis when you do not recognise the status of the guru, and you call partakh har and akal roop as nonesense.

Bhai jee Matta tekna is giving your maat to the guru and asking for gur dee mat (or gurmat). I can not find a word in English which means matha tekna. We say bow because we dont understand matta tekna, its a big problem when finding the correct words in English. Matta tekna to Guru granth sahib jee is nothing to do with what people do with saints. And why compare Saints to Wazir Khan? (you said mughal emperor but i think you mean wazir khan). Mahapursh do gurbani khata and amrit parchar, they dont kill innocent people.

Who thinks that pairee haat to a sant means they are equal to the guru? Which group of people think this? which Sant says he is equal to the guru? You are simply making assumptions about others. Even if we fail to understand the message behing pairee hat to a sant, this does not mean the principle is wrong, its been happening for centurys and will continue. Should we also not fold our hands and lower our head when we say FAteh to a Gursikh? this is also a form of satkar. Dont worry about sending out the wrong message, why dont we try and send the right one. If some person uses the kirpan to attack someone, should we all take our kirpans off because one person sent out the wrong message? We are to worried about others and not worried about ourselves.

You saw the video where pairee haat is done to Sant Jarnail Singh jee yet you keep asking the question. You said to Kam jee that a sant will never ask some to bow to them, A sant wont have iccha for this, but that dont mean the practice is wrong. Sees chukna is great satkar, my great grandad and grandad did so Sant Jarnail Singh in the late 70s, my grandad took amrit when Sant Gurbachan Singh jee came to do parchar... Mahapursh understood why Singhs did their satkar. Brahmgiani aap parmeshar. The mahapursh will therefore know if someone thinks them equal to the guru and will straight away take this bharam out of their mind.

I dont understand your last question. Sikhs believe in chaursi lakh joon. Bhai jee i think you should read what taksali singhs say about taking amrit and if you dont get mukti how you will get the chance again as a Sikh (i think Sant gurbachan Singh of the taksal wrote this). I once heard khata by Sant baba Hari singh Randhava wali on the internet where he also talked about coming back with another chance. All sampardas understand that one can come back because of taking up such a big karam, its only modern Sikhs who do not understand this. Its very hard for us to understand how chuarasi laakh joon dha khed chalda hai. For example read jeevani of Taksali mahapursh... Bhai Randhir Singh like Raam rai questioned bani... for this reason sant baba Gurbachan Singh jee told him he will have to come again and do parchar of Raag mala. Because of Bhai Sahibs kamai of jaap he could come again as a Sikh even though he made a mistake.

From your views I can see you have not spent time with mahapursh, please take up Bhai Kam suggestion to read Teerakh Singh nirmala ji book, read books on Hoti mardan samparda, Harkowal, Rara Sahib, Taksali mahapursh, Nanaksar, Sant Attar Singh mastuana etc. Then think of your questions. It would be even better if you spent time with mahapurshs.

I didnt write that piece, but maharaj can mean many things. for examples Rajan ki raja, maharajan ki maharaj, eso raaj chod aur dooja kaun dhyai. However if you read the sentence properly, its talking about guru sahib.

I dont know if any or all Neeldharis do Havan, however Lavaan da paath is normal. If you have aleady decided whether Havan is right or wrong, then there is no point asking me the qeistion. I personally do not understand what it is, i dont know why people do it, what its for, who started it, which guru said you cant or can do it... therefore i will not comment, why say something when you have no knowledge of a subject?.... however I do know modern Sikhs have tried their best to change Sikhi to the way they prefer, like no joot even though guru Gobind Singh jee told gurbaksh Singh jee to do so, but aaj di vidvaaan kehndi eehh manmat hai.

A mahapursh once did my pairee haat ... rather than a moorakh like me Kam ji has already told you that Sant Major Singh, Sant Hari Singh and Sant Sukhchain Singh (Dharampur wala?) did pairee hat of Sant Jarnail Singh jee. So you can see what great sants do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Well if understand physics,  we can go back in time and change everything 
    • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-58984103 Hugo Carvajal: Spain to extradite Venezuela's ex-spy chief to US Published 2 hours ago Share Related Topics Venezuela crisis IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS Image caption,Mr Carvajal was arrested in Spain last month after he had been in hiding for nearly two years Spain's high court has ruled that Venezuela's former spy chief, Hugo Carvajal, should be extradited to the United States. Mr Carvajal faces charges of drug trafficking and collaborating with Colombia's Farc terrorist group. But he could also have incriminating evidence against Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, a major adversary of the United States. Mr Carvajal fell out with Mr Maduro and fled Venezuela for Spain in 2019. Mr Carvajal has repeatedly denied having any links to drug traffickers or the Marxist Farc rebels, and said the charges against him are politically motivated. The Spanish high court ruling follows an interior ministry decision to refuse Mr Carvajal asylum. However, that process has yet to be completed as Mr Carvajal can appeal. The extradition could also be delayed by another court case Mr Carvajal may have to testify in. It involves alleged illegal financing from Venezuela of Spain's left-wing Podemos party. Country profile: Venezuela Venezuela crisis in 300 words Mr Carvajal, 61, nicknamed "El Pollo" (The Chicken), was arrested in Spain last month after he had been in hiding for nearly two years in the wake of an earlier Spanish court decision which backed his extradition. The US and the government of President Maduro have been at loggerheads for years, with the US imposing tough sanctions on Venezuela. Who is Hugo Carvajal? Gen Carvajal was the head of Venezuela's military counter-intelligence from July 2004 until December 2011, when Hugo Chávez was president of the country.
    • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-58947068 When a cobra became a murder weapon in India Published 18 hours ago Share Image caption,Suraj Kumar (middle) was convicted of killing his wife with a cobra bite Last week, an Indian man was given a rare double-life sentence for killing his wife by making a cobra bite her. Soutik Biswas and Ashraf Padanna piece together the events leading to the grisly murder. In April last year, 28-year-old Suraj Kumar paid 7,000 rupees ($92; £67) for a spectacled cobra, one of the most venomous snakes in the world. Trade in snakes is illegal in India, so Suraj made the clandestine purchase from a snake catcher, Suresh Kumar, in the southern state of Kerala. Suraj drilled a hole in a plastic container for air to flow in, put the cobra inside, and took it home. Thirteen days later, he put the container in a bag and trudged to his in-laws' home, about 44 km (27 miles) away, where his wife Uthra was recovering from a mysterious snake bite. Suraj and Uthra had met two years earlier, via the services of a matrimonial broker. Suraj's father was an auto-rickshaw driver and his mother a homemaker. Uthra, who was three years younger than Suraj and suffered from learning disabilities, came from a significantly more well-off family - her father was a rubber trader and her mother was a retired school principal. When the couple married, Suraj accepted a dowry from Uthra's parents of 768 grams of gold (worth about $32,000 at today's rates), a Suzuki sedan and 400,000 rupees in cash. He also received 8,000 rupees a month from her parents "to look after their daughter", investigators said. It was her parents' home Uthra returned to after being released from hospital, where she was treated for the snake bite. It had put her there for 52 days and required three painful surgeries to heal her affected leg. She had been bitten by a Russell's viper - a highly venomous earth-coloured snake responsible for thousands of deaths in India every year. IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES Image caption,The spectacled cobra is one of the most venomous snakes in the world Then on the night of 6 May, investigators say, while Uthra was still recuperating, she accepted a glass of fruit juice from Suraj which was laced with sedatives. When the mixture had put her under, Suraj brought out the container with the cobra, overturned it, and dropped the five-foot-long snake on his sleeping wife. But rather than attack her, the snake slithered away. Suraj picked it up and flung it on Uthra, but again it slithered off. Suraj tried a third time - he held the reptile by its trademark hood and pressed its head near Uthra's left arm. The agitated cobra, using the fangs at the front of the mouth, bit her twice. Then it slinked off to a shelf in the room and stayed there all night. "Cobras don't bite unless you provoke them, Suraj had to catch it by its hood and force it to bite his wife," says Mavish Kumar, a herpetologist. Suraj washed the juice glass, destroyed a stick he had used to safely handle the snake and deleted incriminating call records on his mobile phone, according to investigators. When Uthra's mother entered the room the next morning, she told the police she saw her daughter lying on the bed with "her mouth open, and her left hand dangling on one side". She said Suraj was also in the room. "Why didn't you check whether she was awake?" Manimekhala Vijayan asked her son-in-law. "I didn't want to disturb her sleep," Suraj told her. IMAGE SOURCE,SREEDHAR LAL Image caption,Uthra slept on the bed on the left in this room where she was killed The family rushed Uthra to the hospital, where the doctors pronounced her dead by poisoning and called the police. The autopsy report found two pairs of puncture wounds, less than an inch apart, on her left forearm. Blood and viscera samples revealed the presence of cobra venom and sedative drugs. Cobra venom can kill in hours by paralysing respiratory muscles. Acting on a complaint by Uthra's parents, the police arrested Suraj on 24 May in connection with his wife's unusual death. After a 78-day investigation and with charges running into more than 1,000 pages, the trial began. More than 90 people, including herpetologists and doctors, testified. The prosecution built its case using Suraj's call records, internet history, a dead cobra exhumed from the back garden, a stash of sedatives in the family car and evidence that he bought not one but two snakes. Investigators said that Suraj had also purchased the Russell's viper which had bitten Uthra months before she died. Suresh, the snake catcher, turned on Suraj and confessed to selling him both snakes. A herpetologist told the court that it was highly unlikely a cobra would have entered the couple's bedroom through a raised window. The crime scene was even recreated, using a live cobra, a snake handler and a dummy of the victim on a bed. IMAGE SOURCE,SREEDHAR LAL Image caption,Police found the plastic container in which Suraj kept the cobra that killed his wife "Cobras are not very active at night. Every time we dropped a cobra on the supine dummy, it slithered to the floor and went into a dark corner of the room," Mavish Kumar said. "Even when we provoked the cobra, it did not try to bite." He then caught the neck of one cobra and "induced" the bite on a piece of chicken tied to the plastic hand of the dummy. The distance between the bites was the same as it had been on Uthra's arm. "This is a case of diabolical and ghastly uxoricide," said Judge M Manoj, referring to the murder of a wife. Judge Manoj sentenced Suraj to life in prison, saying he had schemed to kill Uthra and "disguise it as a death from an accidental cobra bite". According to investigators, the fatal cobra bite was Suraj's third, not second, attempt to kill his wife in just four months. The Indian tribesmen catching giant snakes in Florida The global fight against snake bites Suraj, who worked as a collection agent for a local bank, met the snake catcher Suresh in February last year, and bought the Russell's viper from him for 10,000 rupees. He took the snake home in a plastic container and hid it under a heap of firewood in a shed. Then on 27 February, Suraj released the snake on the landing of the first floor of his home, investigators said, and asked his wife to go upstairs to fetch his mobile phone. Uthra saw the viper coiled up on the marble floor and raised an alarm, her mother told the police. Suraj came up, picked up the snake with a stick, and left the house. He put it back in the container. On the night of 2 March, Suraj tried again. He laced his wife's pudding with sedatives, and released the viper in the bedroom while she slept. IMAGE SOURCE,SREEDHAR LAL Image caption,The murder took place on the ground floor of this house in Kollam district This time, investigators said, the snake attacked. Uthra woke up screaming in pain, bites on her leg, and Suraj threw the snake out of the window. "Snakebite cases are common in Kerala, so we didn't suspect any foul play here," said Vijayasenan Vidhyadharan, Uthra's father. (About 60,000 people die of snakebites in India every year.) It took more than two hours that night to find a hospital that provided critical care treatment. Uthra was suffering from swelling and haemorrhage. Three skin transplant surgeries later, she returned home to her parent's two-storey house in a verdant village in Kollam to rest. Suraj remained with his son and parents at his home in Pathanamthitta. But he was already plotting again. "While his wife was in the hospital, Suraj was trawling the internet about handling snakes and learning about snake venom," said Anoop Krishna, one of the investigators. IMAGE SOURCE,SREEDHAR LAL Image caption,Suraj (middle) had been planning to kill his wife for more than a year, police say Investigators say Suraj had been plotting the murder since the birth of his son, Dhruv, in 2019. His internet history revealed that he searched venomous snakes and watched snake videos on YouTube, including a channel by a locally well-known snake handler. One of the snake-handler's most popular videos is about the "dangerous and aggressive Russell's viper". Suraj reportedly told his friends that his wife was "haunted by the curse of a serpent" in her dreams, in which she was "destined to die of snakebite". In reality, Suraj was determined to kill his wife, steal her money, and marry another woman, investigators said. "He planned it meticulously and succeeded in the third attempt," said Apukuttan Ashok, the lead investigating police officer. Public prosecutor Mohanraj Gopalakrishnan called the case a "milestone in police investigations in India, when prosecutors could decisively prove that an animal was used as a weapon of murder". Suraj received a rare double life sentence for the crime. According to Gopalakrishnan, he showed no remorse.
    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayel_Nassar Nassar was born in Chicago and grew up in Kuwait, before moving back to California in 2009. He was born to Fouad Nassar and Iman Harby, owners of Kuwaiti architectural firm Diwan Interiors International,[6] which has worked with companies such as Citigroup Kuwait, JW Marriott and Mercedes Benz.[6] He first began riding at the age of five and jumping at ten. Nassar has published that, on his Instagram page, many times, he is always proud to say that he's been an equestrian since day one.[3] Nassar is a graduate of Stanford University. He earned his bachelor's degree in economics from Stanford in 2013.[2] On 29 January 2020, Nassar and Jennifer Gates, daughter of Bill and Melinda Gates, announced their engagement.[7] They married on 16 October 2021 in Westchester County, New York.[8]
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use