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.- Prabhjot Singh -.

Charitropakhyan - Tale Of Roop Kaur By Sirdar Kapur Singh

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Brilliant work.

Very interesting statement:

It is because of lack of understanding of the above mentioned points that people wrongly believe Guru Ji’s compositions can only be Gurbani or Gurvaak and not plain work of secular fiction.

I wonder how this would sit with those who claim all of DG is Gurbani?

I've always thought the DG was produced to expand Sikhs minds in matters of a diverse nature.

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This is what Sirdar Kapur Singh writes:

].... ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸ਼ੈਲੀ (Literary form) ਭੀ ਇਵੇਂ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਤੇ ਮਾਂਗਵੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ-ਵਸਤੂ| ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਭਲੀ-ਭਾਂਤੀ ਵਾਕਫੀ, ਪਰਿਚੈ ਨਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਹੀ ਕਾਰਨ ਇਸ ਭੁਲੇਖੇ ਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਚਨਾ ਅਵੱਸ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਯਾ ਗੁਰਵਾਕ ਹੀ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਲੌਕਿਕ ਸਾਹਿਤ (Secular fiction) ਨਹੀਂ|[/size]

Thought i post the original text to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding.

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In schools in India we were taught stories such as thirsty crow.In that there was a plot of story and in the end

there was moral lesson which was the essence and more important then the story.

In the same way Guru sahib has quoted stories in Charitropakhayan to impart a moral lesson. The aim is, as is in this story,

to caution khalsa to avoid moral pitfalls. He has cited a story and then has given us a moral lesson.

We have his teachings interspersed with plot of story.It is sacred for us.

The following part is advice to his khalsa.It teaches us to avoid extra marital union.Extra marital union is one of four bajjar kurehits of


ਸੁਧਿ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥

ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥

ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਨੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਨਿਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥

ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥

ਬਾਲ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਪਾਸ ਦੇਸ ਦੇਸਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਆਵਹਿ ॥

ਮਨ ਬਾਛਤ ਬਰ ਮਾਗਿ ਜਾਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਸੀਸ ਝੁਕਾਵਹਿ ॥

ਸਿਖ੍ਯ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਸੁਤਾ ਜਾਨਿ ਅਪਨੇ ਚਿਤ ਧਰਿਯੈ ॥

ਹੋ ਕਹੁ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਤਿਹ ਸਾਥ ਗਵਨ ਕੈਸੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿਯੈ ॥

Ever since I came of age, my Guru has taught me

Son, for as long as you have breaths in your body,

keep developing love with your own wife,

but never even dream of going to someone’s else bed.

O woman! Women from every corner come to me,

to get their wishes fulfilled, they bow their heads in respect.

The Sikhs are my sons, their wives my daughters,

O woman! Tell me how is it possible for me to form physical relations with them?

Charitropakhayan, Dasam Granth

Charitropakhayan should be read from beginning to end with very attentive mind.Fools like Drahsn ragi do not have the intellect and gurmat to under stand

these charitras.That is why they propagate against this writing.

On the other hand Gurumukhs such as Baghel singh had read and understood message in charitras.When King of Delhi was not able to match Baghel singh

in battle of delhi, he sent his wife to him at night. Baghel singh told her " Look sister i have read charitropakhyan of Guru Gobind singh ji. You will not be able to entice me.

From now on i consider you as my sister."

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Do you know like Indian stories about Lord Krishna and his many sakhiaas (who are mentioned in Gurbani) this understanding of radha-krishna is effective in explaining the soul bride concept another consideration of this bani is perhaps just like the soul bride concept we may be understanding

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chitrapakian in the wrong way instead of its understanding of women trickery could be how people attained unity with God and were deceptive just like the rest of the narration of dasam granth such as in akal ustat how great people became avtars, prophets saints they became mukht but lost the mukhti maybe chitrapakhian is being misunderstood. At the moment Sikh scholars are not up to scratch where they should be in terms of linguistics.

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Khalsa ji, Pyar sahet benti parwaan karo ji......

Any topic of Sri Dasam Granth ji should not be discussed on the internet or any discourse of any bani.

Sorry to say this but we are more stupid than people make us out to be, why?

A simple reason we can't keep our tresures safe, all we do is see a little light and we think we've reached the Sun.

All the Bani that our GREAT GURU SAHIBS have given us is something we can't even think how big of a deal it really is, yet we use the bani on the internet we start debating without any understanding what so ever.

If any person whats to know about sikhi/gurbani then go through the proper means. (oh and there is no excuse because every Gurdwara in the world runs classes to teach gurmukhi and give santhiya so there is no excuse)

We can make for other hobbies or sports, but when it come to our true heritage we rather sit on a PC and read topics written by nastaks and nidhaks, without any research, and these type can't even read or write Gurmukhi? how strange is that?

How can you start questioning sikhi in any way, it's commen sense, if you don't know the english alphabet, then how can you ask or therefore answer a quetion that is at a pHD level, does'nt make sense does it!

Yet on youtube I see foolish people like so called moulvi mullha jatha (tiger group) talking rubbish, my advise to you lot is stay in the Glassy Junction we don't need <banned word filter activated> like you in the panth.

I also see alot of my Brothers wearing the bana and shastars.....my question is when you have this mullah jatha doing beadbi of the bani doesn't your blood boil, that is the time to take these fool out....Khalsa ji wake up.

All the Dal's in the UK it's time to rise and shut these people up once and for all, I'm seeing moneh who have nothing to do with sikhi sorry but you don't running there mouths off, people coming on punjab radio and doing nidehya of Sant Maharpush and of Bani.

This need to stop UK is a small county and this needs to be controled.

Khalistan will only happen when we are true like the pratan sikhs and true defenders of the bani.

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Guru Roop Sangat Jeo,

2. Like its content, the literary form of Triya-Charitars is also borrowed from traditional sources.

It is because of lack of understanding of the above mentioned points that people wrongly believe Guru Ji’s compositions can only be Gurbani or Gurvaak and not plain work of secular fiction.

Bhai Sahib, the above point is very interesting. Is there any chance to expand on this. The reason I ask is because, I believe, that if all Sikhs were clear on how to view Sri Dasam Granth when compared to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then any Nindaks of Sri Dassam Granth would be unsuccessful. Like Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindrawale said, " not everyone has the intellect and ability to understand Sri Dassam Granth di bani. However, I think it would help everybody to know how to view the bani of Sri Dassam Granth before we started reading it. When we read the Dassam Granth di Bani in nitnem it's so amazing and inspiring and leaves no doubt in the mind of the reciter that it is the composition of a true Satguru to bring people closer to Vaheguru! However, if there are some parts of Sri Dassam Granth that are plain works of secular fiction that it would be useful for moorakhs like me to understand that and know which parts these are!

Apologies if I have taken this thread back to basics (it may be worth starting another thread) but I genuinely believe that basics need to be covered with Sri Dassam Granth to prevent the Sangat from being mislead.

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I was reading the English translations (as well as the Gurmukhi original verses) of Sri Charitropakhyan and it completely blew my mind --- in a good way!

I find the following quote from the original article absolutely key:

Because of lack of understanding of our folk-literature and Granths, many scholars and laymen have fallen prey to the dangerous misunderstanding that the story of Roop Kaur as described in Triya-Charitar is a part of Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s own history.

How embarrassing is the above for Sikhs? Are we so uncultured and ignorant that we cannot discern the difference between literature and biography? Can nobody within the Sikh faith express themselves by writing literature and trying to create allegories and parables without being accused of being the subject of said stories? :blink2:

So is it because of the above misunderstanding that people are opposed to SDG? Is that why there's so much trouble regarding this issue?

Although am I right in saying that some Sikhs attempt to sing these compositions as Gurbani in Gurudwaras? Is that why everyone kicks-off? Hmmm....I can appeciate both sides of the argument in that case, i.e. one faction says "Because Guru Ji wrote the work, we should not be ashamed of repeating it in a Gurughar" whilst the other faction says "It has content that isn't conducive to a family setting such as a Gurughar, and therefore should not be sung on a stage?"

THAT is a very complicated issue. I would not like to argue the toss in either case.

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above is an awesoem translation and article, please more! the dasam granth dokhis and prudish protestant christian missionary sikhs

have always been beat down by our praatan historians, kathavachaks the problem is their literature is all in punjabi, and we really need more translations from respected Gursikhs. not fake professors

as for reading out aloud,

just as a weapon is not put into the hands of a young child until it can hold it properly and understand safety and use

and Just as sex education isn't taught until an age where the young person is old enough to understand what is being refered to

so charitropakhyaan is a gyaan of the hidden deeper base instincts of humans which frees the mind from innocence of youth and ignorance, and can save many young people from the traps of sexuality.

everyone can try to deny it, but this hidden instinct lies in all -

kwim kroiD ngru bhu BirAw imil swDU KMfl KMfw hy ]

kaam karodhh nagar bahu bhariaa mil saadhhoo kha(n)ddal kha(n)ddaa hae ||

The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint.

Guru Raam Daas Ji, Sohila, 13

kaam krodhh aha(n)kaar maathae viaapiaa sa(n)saar ||

The world is drunk, engrossed in sexual desire, anger and egotism.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Siree Raag, 51

kal kalavaalee maaeiaa madh meet(h)aa man mathavaalaa peevath rehai ||

The Dark Age of Kali Yuga is the bottle of wine; Maya is the sweet wine, and the intoxicated mind continues to drink it in.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Raag Aasaa, 350

ei(n)dhree viaap rehee adhhikaaee kaam krodhh nith sa(n)thaavai ||1||

The sensory organs are totally engrossed in sensuality; sexual desire and anger constantly afflict him. ||1||

Guru Amar Daas Ji, Raag Vadhans, 565

within the confines of marriage, sex is pure and pavittar, or else how would the atma gain human form, or the male and female consumate their marriage.

The Guru further emphasises the sanctity of marriage by representing the relationship between each human and vaheguru as Wife to Husband, and their consumation as the union of the soul with vaheguru

guramukh ravehi sohaaganee so prabh saej bhathaar ||3||

The Gurmukh is ravished like the pure and happy bride on the Bed of God, her Husband. ||3||

Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Siree Raag, 21

kaaman pir raakhiaa ka(n)t(h) laae sabadhae pir raavai saej suhaavaniaa ||7||

That soul-bride keeps her Husband Lord clasped tightly to her heart, and through the Word of the Shabad, she enjoys her Husband Lord upon His Beautiful Bed. ||7||

Guru Amar Daas Ji, Raag Maajh, 127

also - unchecked or uncontrolled, outside marriage, innocent or not, even a pious person can be destroyed by it, countless wars have been waged for it, kingdoms lost and won over it, and there seems no end to it.

su(n)dhar naaree anik parakaaree par grih bikaaree ||

They may have all sorts of beautiful women, but still, they commit adultery in the homes of others.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Raag Gauree, 213

nak ka(n)n farr vadteeai raavai par naaree||

The ears and nose are chopped of the man who ravishes an other’s wife.

Bhai Gurdaas Ji, Vaars Bhai Gurdaas, 36



Salok, First Mehla:

choraa jaaraa ra(n)ddeeaa kuttaneeaa dheebaan || vaedheenaa kee dhosathee vaedheenaa kaa khaan ||

Thieves, adulterers, prostitutes and pimps, make friendships with the unrighteous, and eat with the unrighteous.

sifathee saar n jaananee sadhaa vasai saithaan ||

They do not know the value of the Lord's Praises, and Satan is always with them.

gadhahu cha(n)dhan khouleeai bhee saahoo sio paan ||

If a donkey is anointed with sandalwood paste, he still loves to roll in the dirt.

naanak koorrai kathiai koorraa thaneeai thaan ||

O Nanak, by spinning falsehood, a fabric of falsehood is woven.

koorraa kaparr kashheeai koorraa painan maan ||1||

False is the cloth and its measurement, and false is pride in such a garment. ||1||

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Soohee on Pannaa 790

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This is Sirdar Kapur Singh ji's , academic works.

He was genius, Sikh thinker and renaissance man.

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Admins, please do not allow guest posts for this section, as you will find cretins posting nonsense here.

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Guest Kaur 2


On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:01 PM, chatanga said:

Admins, please do not allow guest posts for this section, as you will find cretins posting nonsense here.

Not all guests cause trouble...


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