Sikh Channel Spreading Caste System

[dalsingh101]

I know plenty of Muslim Jatts, how comes they don't seem to bang on about their caste/ethnicity like apnay do?

Do they not have the same cultural heritage?

[Malwai]

I also saw this and was quite disturbed. The chap in question was from Khalsa Aid. His word went along the lines of Jatts gave 95% of Kubanis and now people dislike/question them, Is this a suitable view for a senior charity worker to have? Secondly where does he get his figures from (can he back them up), is he really saying all the other castes put together only contributed 5% to Sikhi?

Khalistan is a contentious issue which I don’t want to go into now. The fact that Jatts predominantly led and supported Khalistan should tell you something, is it possible they had the most to gain? Ultimately it was two non Jatt, low castes bodyguards of Indera Gandhi who got the greatest prize for the Khalistan movement, surly that alone should qualify for a 5% contribution if Khalistan is the measure

I don’t believe any other sikh community seriously considers themselves above Jatts, you may get the odd deluded person but this superiority complex is a Jatt thing and you argue all you want about ethnic tribes etc. With the media being mainly jatt controlled and nearly every Punjabi song with the word Jatt in it the situation is getting worse, not saying all Jatts but a good majority, certainly way more than other castes, tribes etc.

I'm willing to bet that Bhai Sahib from Khalsa Aid has done more charitable acts in one lifetime then the people criticising him will do in several, sad really.

You want figures demonstrating the kurbani of Jatts, I'll give you something, refer to below link that looks at over 800 registered cases of fake encounters and police murders during the 80's, of the 800 cases, nearly 600 cases belong to Jatt Sikh Shaheeds, my maths makes that over 70%:

Jatt Kurbani

This is only one, there are plenty more, I suggest you spend some time in the rural belts of Punjab to understand the disposition of Jatts and their contribution to Sikh struggles.

How dare you refer to Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh & Beant Singh as low caste! Firstly like I've previously mentioned there is no organised caste system in Sikhism.

Let me also set the record straight, I know Bhai Satwant Singh's family very well and I regularly attend Bhai Sahib's barsi, perhaps you should pay a visit next time in Punjab and use the words "low caste", Bhai Sahib belonged to the brave and well respected Kamboj tribe, you should get your facts straight before spouting your lies.

As for Punjabi songs, West London Singh explained this well previously and their historical context during harvest season.

[dalsingh101]

You want figures demonstrating the kurbani of Jatts, I'll give you something, refer to below link that looks at over 800 registered cases of fake encounters and police murders during the 80's, of the 800 cases, nearly 600 cases belong to Jatt Sikh Shaheeds, my maths makes that over 70%:

Was you even born around those times?

Why not also mention that the majority of Punjab Police doing the extra judicial executions were Jatt 'Sikhs' themselves.

[RDX]

I'm willing to bet that Bhai Sahib from Khalsa Aid has done more charitable acts in one lifetime then the people criticising him will do in several, sad really.

You want figures demonstrating the kurbani of Jatts, I'll give you something, refer to below link that looks at over 800 registered cases of fake encounters and police murders during the 80's, of the 800 cases, nearly 600 cases belong to Jatt Sikh Shaheeds, my maths makes that over 70%:

Jatt Kurbani

This is only one, there are plenty more, I suggest you spend some time in the rural belts of Punjab to understand the disposition of Jatts and their contribution to Sikh struggles.

How dare you refer to Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh & Beant Singh as low caste! Firstly like I've previously mentioned there is no organised caste system in Sikhism.

Let me also set the record straight, I know Bhai Satwant Singh's family very well and I regularly attend Bhai Sahib's barsi, perhaps you should pay a visit next time in Punjab and use the words "low caste", Bhai Sahib belonged to the brave and well respected Kamboj tribe, you should get your facts straight before spouting your lies.

As for Punjabi songs, West London Singh explained this well previously and their historical context during harvest season.

No one has questioned the work of Khalsa Aid, I even said they did very good work, however does this give him the right to make such comments? This is typical Jatt superiority thinking coming through. Deep down Jatts feels they made the major contribution to Sikhi, so they deserve the power. Other castes have been made to feel the poorer cousins and it’s hardly surprising they’ve build their own Gurdwara’s. Everyone talks about unity within Sikhism but how is this ever going to happen when one community feels they made the major sacrifices, it needs to be dropped not defended with statistics as it is here.

Why are you outraged that I referred to Bhai Satwant Singh & Beant Singh as low caste? One minute you say there is no castes in Sikhism then go on to say the Satwant Singh was a Kamboj, does this somehow move him up a class or two?

The historical context during harvest season has nothing to do with modern Punjabi music. Today, Jatts are successfully pushing their own agenda using music by constantly celebrating their drinking capacity, fast cars, wealth etc, it’s the only community that feels the need to do this.. Why?? Over an hour I counted 7 out of 10 songs played on Brit Asia included the word Jatt, this never happed 10 or 15 years ago so don’t tell me it’s getting better.

[dalsingh101]

Today, Jatts are successfully pushing their own agenda using music by constantly celebrating their drinking capacity, fast cars, wealth etc, it’s the only community that feels the need to do this..

What I find most confusing is how despite this, we also simultaneously hear constant output about farmer suicides and how they are struggling to make ends meet?

Leave them to it I say. This is too messy to get into, they don't seem to know what is going on themselves, how would the rest of us figure it out?

What I do know is my own family who have a fair bit of land back home, which is rented out tenant farmers, never feel the need to jump around and advertise the fact, nor do they constantly bemoan about every last thing on the planet. The water, the Hindu government, the low castes getting reservations etc. etc.

The constant moaning you hear from Jatt quarters over EVERY little thing is just so off putting. We call it wingeing in the UK. So what is the deal? Are things crappy or wonderful? Please make your minds up?

Plus lets be real honest here - the people who kill the most Jatts are......other Jatts. Before pointing fingers at others, I think people need to look closer to home for the sources of their problems.

[Kharkooartsy]

Veerji I agree with you that Bhagat Singh is not a great Sikh Role Model but read Jail Chitian by Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and you will understand him better. He died as a Sikh because he started doing a lot of paath before fansi. He did get that kirpa towards the end. Singhs that did lotta kurbania for Indian Independence arent known by most indian people because they were in sikhi saroop and not appreciated as much as bhagat singh... even bhagat singh agreed with that before he was hung.

i am a "jatt" sikhni too and i was not taught about sikhi

i am going to be honest when i was in middle school i was sooooo proud to be jatt NOT because my parents taught me about this caste thing but because i would hear punjabi songs talk about how jatts drink a lot and jatts party jatts dance... and so on.. i was so proud of "punjabi jatt culture"

but all this hankaar went away when sikhi became more important to me. When i learned about the Singhs in the 80s. It doesnt matter if they were mostly jatt because they didnt take pride in it i am sure they were united they had love for sikhi and their fellow sikhs and thats why they were able to give kurbania. I lost hankaar in being jatt when i learned more about sikhi and saw amazing gursikhs that are nonjatts. Some of them used their last name I use my last name but that doesnt mean they had pride in it.

the problem is the media.. Change the culture of Punjab first

by culture of punjab i mean what they made punjabi culture into. its not the same anymore.

i remember everytime someone said jatt my grandma would get really mad and say NO!! say Jimmidar

Because jimmidar is more of a occupation than a caste or clan...

Most jatts dont hate other caste they take pride in their caste because of punjabi media. Past week we were driving to smagam and we took this girl from here with us and she was like ..... salle jatt they are so stupid... three of us in the car were jatt we didnt say anything we just laughed and then she was like omg you guys are not jatt are you? we were like yeh we are but its okay dont feel bad i know where you are coming from...

then the next minute she goes but then she went on and said jatts are okay but bhappe are so annoying and offended our khatri friend..

So the point of me telling this story is that Media is at fault more than anything. We had people say bad stuff about jatts to us because they didnt know we were jatt... because they said that "jatts are never into sikhi because they cut their hair"

Obviously thats not true Vaheguroojee doesnt discriminate who he decides to do kirpa upon

Jatts cut their kesh because they arent taught about Sikhi Jatts drink because they are taught to do that. Veerji most of my relatives drink too..

people from my family lie on the roads after they are drunk they party to show off

but we also had shaheeds in our family and santlike people (my grandfather) who did paath all day..

If you really want to change the whole caste culture first try to bring change to punjabi songs culture there..

that way you can change how youngsters think how they see things.. you can bring chardikala back to the panth by trying to change the condition of punjab today. We need to do things to teach people about Sikhi.. If you feel so strongly about it then do something about it. We all just talk discuss argue and tell each other that we disagree.. this is our opinion that is our opinion but we never UNITE

we never try to make a change..

our panth lost that ekta we had...we need to remember words of our guru..... guru ji said...

Jano Jot Na Pucho Jaati, Jo Sikhan Ki Puche Jaat O ni Sikh Mera Add Jugad (its in rehitmarayada)...and look at us manmukhs we have Gurudwaras named after jatts..

This is soo Sad

Elaborate on how jatts are killing other jatts are you talking about the "government of punjab populated by jatts" or are you saying that jimmidars are causing deaths of other jimmidars

[Kharkooartsy]

Tulwar veerji i love your post

This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Bhairao on Pannaa 1127

rwgu BYrau mhlw 3 caupdy Gru 1

raag bhairo mehalaa 3 choupadhae ghar 1

Raag Bhairao, Third Mehla, ChauPaday, First House:

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jwiq kw grbu n krIAhu koeI ]

jaath kaa garab n kareeahu koee ||

No one should be proud of his social class and status.

bRhmu ibMdy so bRwhmxu hoeI ]1]

breham bi(n)dhae so braahaman hoee ||1||

He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||

jwiq kw grbu n kir mUrK gvwrw ]

jaath kaa garab n kar moorakh gavaaraa ||

Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool!

iesu grb qy clih bhuqu ivkwrw ]1] rhwau ]

eis garab thae chalehi bahuth vikaaraa ||1|| rehaao ||

So much sin and corruption comes from this pride. ||1||Pause||

cwry vrn AwKY sBu koeI ]

chaarae varan aakhai sabh koee ||

Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.

bRhmu ibMd qy sB Epiq hoeI ]2]

breham bi(n)dh thae sabh oupath hoee ||2||

They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2||

mwtI eyk sgl sMswrw ]

maattee eaek sagal sa(n)saaraa ||

The entire universe is made of the same clay.

bhu ibiD BWfy GVY kum@wrw ]3]

bahu bidhh bhaa(n)ddae gharrai kumhaaraa ||3||

The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3||

pMc qqu imil dyhI kw Awkwrw ]

pa(n)ch thath mil dhaehee kaa aakaaraa ||

The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.

Git viD ko krY bIcwrw ]4]

ghatt vadhh ko karai beechaaraa ||4||

Who can say which is less, and which is more? ||4||

khqu nwnk iehu jIau krm bMDu hoeI ]

kehath naanak eihu jeeo karam ba(n)dhh hoee ||

Says Nanak, this soul is bound by its actions.

ibnu siqgur Byty mukiq n hoeI ]5]1]

bin sathigur bhaettae mukath n hoee ||5||1||

Without meeting the True Guru, it is not liberated. ||5||1||

[buddasingh]

It is so sad when people parade on here as intellectuals. Kudos to some of beautiful brothers and sisters of jatt background here who do have enough intelligence to understand that ego is behind the embarrassing self congratulatory hillbilly pride. The word “tribe” connotes some kind of hip minority pride. This is actually a deep rooted parental CASTE identity clothed in some modern and pseudo-acceptable concept for the next generation.

Who are we kidding when we celebrate and practice to the extreme; sexism, castism, alcoholism, crime, and an illiterate testosterone-drive….and we have the nerve to suggest “culture”! Jattismm is a disease that is driven deep into our subconscious at a very young age. It becomes an embedded identity that feels inseparable because it is driven into us almost as strongly as gender identity.

This caste garbage is one of the biggest rots within sikhi and is a direct assault upon our faith. What a disgusting tribute we are to the casteless Khalsa who gave their heads for humanity.

[Khoolasice]

It is so sad when people parade on here as intellectuals. Kudos to some of beautiful brothers and sisters of jatt background here who do have enough intelligence to understand that ego is behind the embarrassing self congratulatory hillbilly pride.

It is very difficult and quite probably frustrating for non-Jatts to understand the mentality of the Jatt race.

Better if they don't try as it could fuel their insecurity.

[SarabhaPanjab]

blah blah.. the million-th caste paranoia topic

Yes we all know there is an in-hereditary caste problem within Punjab and Panjabis why? because we are surrounded by the biggest caste driven race in the world, inter-twined in every aspect of life and politics

Is Panjab ever going to break out of that? simple Answer No under current climate - Yes under Khalsa Rule.

What we can do in the west is forget about the elders mentality - Practise equality amongst the youth, and pass that on to our kids.

As-well as abandoning all other Hindu ritualism.

Ever wondered why when the New Nanakshai Calendar was published, All Gurpurbs and Historic dates were amended - But Diwali remained the same??

At the highest level they are trying to mould Sikhs and hindus together.

I hope I don't sound blasphemic when I say this - But do we really need to celebrate Bandhi Chor Diwas in the same intensity??

Gurdwara's do fireworks?

In the bigger scheme of things - how big was this event in our History compared to other events?

i.e.

10 Gurpurbs

Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj Guru Gaddi

Vaisakhi

Sahib Shiri Guru Arjan Dev ji Shaheedi

battle of Muktsar

and on... and on... countless dates

What's the point of doing fireworks and celebrating? The Panth is still gulaam, thousands butchered in Delhi during diwali- their families still await justice.

All that is happening is India is using every tactic to divide Sikhs and mould them to Hindus..

but in the end the day will come again when they attempt to butcher us - and then they will not ask if your jatt, tharkhan, saini what ever.. they will simply acknowledge you as a Sikh and pour petrol over your dastaar