Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham

[RamgarhiaBoy 1]

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

[Khalasthan86 138]

Any photos? Evidence...?

[BhaiSukhSingh 7]

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

well bhai Sahib i think youve been blessed with the Seva of getting contact numbers getting address writting cover letters if you could provide pictures of the halls so we can take this further

Ramgarhia Sikh Temple Birmingham B1 3LA >Tel: 0121 236 5435

[BhaiSukhSingh 7]

gurcharan bahra main secretary

jaspal virdi

they available 7- 8.00

on friday evenings

01212332647

[GurSa Singh 69]

Any photos? Evidence...?

As the subject has now been brought up, the Sikh residents of Birmingham will be well aware of the Jassa Singh Ramgharia Hall around the corner from the main Gurdwara Darbar Sahib in the city centre. I suppose rather than needing pictures, just call the Gurdwara on 0121 236 5435. Ask for a booking for a party in the Hall and ask them if meat, alcohol is allowed. You'll get your proof, the committee don't hide the fact that they allow all these anti Sikh activities on their property named after a mahan Gursikh panthic icon like dhan dhan Baba Jassa Singh Ramgharia. It's hypocrisy at it's worst and certainly needs addressing.

Maybe its time for UK sangat to focus on taking this one forward. Don't drag this one out by asking for "proof" etc, it's open knowledge. Ask anyone in Bham or visit the Hall on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday evening when a party is going on.

These activities at Ramgharia Gurdwara, Graham St, Birmingham do need addressing, partcularly as the committee project themselves forward on many panth related situations on the Sikh Channel.

[Into the Light 149]

I've just called and can confirm that when i tried to book the hall for a party i was told to come to the Gurdwara or call tommorrow between 7 and 8pm.

I then asked the gentlemen, if i was to book the hall would meat/alcohol be barred (not allowed)? The gentlemen said - "no, not at all...you can eat meat, drink alcohol and do bhangra to your hearts content here"

The most ironic thing is that guys first word when he spoke to me was...Vaheguroo

[whyhellothere 17]

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

I don't understand how a sikh could partake in this beadbi. The gianis who readily allow this are prostituting themselves for money and nothing less.

[whyhellothere 17]

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

Regarding the Sikh Channel, well thats really no suprise- If they know what goes down there and film there then there really are no words.

What happened to at least boycotting if exposing this is too much? The Sikh Channel has so much power to do good. Spreading gurbani has already been done, its great seva and all but so much more can be achieved with it's power.

Sikh Channel kissing the asses of so called sikh politicians will only get you so far. Please challenge and fight for truth and justice in the name of god or change your name to "The Manmukh Lovers Channel."

[Tikka 1]

There seems to be a major lack of respect for Sikhi from the majority of Ramgaria sangat. The older men in this caste seem to only want to be half sirdar. I know 35+ Ramgaria men with turbans but trimmed beards. It's not right guys especially when your over the agesof 50 your senior figures of our Sikhi com so portray the full image and show the younger generations how it's done.

[SinghWarrior 102]

General Secretary Gurcharan Bahra had absolutely no hesitation in offering dates for booking parties earlier this evening. Meat and alcohol on Gurdwara premises? No problem. He said that there were loads of other issues for the Panth to resolve first, so the Gurdwara hall hosting parties was OK!!! Anyone wanting to pay their 200 pound non-refundable booking fee for a party should make their cheque payable to "Ramgarhia Sikh Temple".

If anyone wants to confirm/get evidence, please call direct at the times mentioned above. They tell you all this unashamedly.

Tikka - this is not a caste issue. Let's not allow caste to become an issue amongst Gursikhs. Question is this: does the Gurdwara follow Guru's Maryada and Akal Takht Sahib's Sandesh regarding meat and alcohol? If not, it should not claim to be a Gurdwara, Guru Sahib's saroops should be taken away and Nishan Sahib should be taken down - SIMPLE!!!

[MentalSingh 15]

SinghWarrior I totally agree with you. This is not a caste issue it's about promoting the correct Maryada thoughout all the UKs and (worlds) Gurdwara.

[SinghWarrior 102]

The latest charity commission report for 2008 shows that the Ramgarhia Gurdwara committee made almost £40,000 from the party hall, sadly named in the name of Sikh Panthic hero Sardar Jassa Singh Ji Khalsa (see bottom of page 10 on link). This is a 33% increase on the previous year.

The bottom of page 14 of the charity commission report shows that they have set aside a "building fund" to develop a new Community Centre, which will include an even bigger wedding hall.

Link: http://www.charity-c...0080405_e_c.pdf

Gurdwara's are not a business. They are a Dharmsala for spreading Guru's Sikhi. Should the Sangat's money which is given in Guru's Golak be used to fund party hall, meat, alcohol and tobacco activities, or should Guru's Golak be used for Sikhi Parchaar, helping Shaheed families, dharmi faujis and the unfortunate in the world?

It's CLEARLY time to reclaim OUR Gurdwaras from the corrupt Gurdwara committees.

[SarabhaPanjab 242]

Tikka - this is not a caste issue. Let's not allow caste to become an issue amongst Gursikhs. Question is this: does the Gurdwara follow Guru's Maryada and Akal Takht Sahib's Sandesh regarding meat and alcohol? If not, it should not claim to be a Gurdwara, Guru Sahib's saroops should be taken away and Nishan Sahib should be taken down - SIMPLE!!!

This clearly is a Caste issue, look... lets stop beating around the bush, tip toeing around this issue. This has gone on for far too long.

The Ramgarhia Council UK Ramgarhia "Parliament" are all super corrupt organisations and all Gurwaras affiliated to them.

They are to the very core Caste orientated. Then they sell you the rubbish of "oh Ramgrhia isn't about caste he was a great Sikh Warrior"

It is ALL about caste- under the disguise of our great ancestors.

why if is isn't about caste, are 100% of its members of Tharkan caste??

They NEVER attend 1984 memorials.. yet they go to the Indian flag saluting ceremonies. These guys are of total congressi mindset, they have no Dharmic agenda, or Panthic agenda. It is solely a bhahman promoting organisation, hell bent on corrupting our youth, hell bent on putting the shackles of caste slavery around our people.

The SHAMEFUL thing is, the inventors of the caste syetem do not have caste based mandhirs or meat or alcohol.

We have caste based Gurdwaras, serving meat and alcohol under the name of Maha Singh Soorme like Jassa Singh KHALSA.

It is appalling!! the trick these guys will play to strengthen their brainwashed sangat by saying we are being threatened by Jatt or whatever, hence gelling them together.

We need a Ramgahia Missl- Anti-beadbi committee headed by Gursikhs who just happen to be of tharkhan background- no this is not how it should happen.. but it is the only way we can combat this cancer!

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1703/flagceremony2009.jpg

[SinghWarrior 102]

If the so-called "Ramgarhias" have made it a caste issue, it doesn't mean that we have to make it one. Guru Granth Sahib Ji belongs to Khalsa Panth, and it is the Panth's duty to ensure that no Beadbi occurs. There are "Ramgarhias" who are against the party halls in "Ramgarhia" Gurdwaras - they're the silent majority. The Panth has to unite, regardless of man-made caste, to defeat the corrupt leaders and committees.

REPEAT: It's not a caste issue at all. The leaders/committees are trying to make it a caste issue to defend their anti-Gurmat practices. Let's stay united and not fall into their trap!!!

[GurSa Singh 69]

Whatever the "label" of a Committee or Sangat members who serve in a Gurdwara, sharda has no caste neither does beadbi. The nishan sahib has no caste, nor does the pavitar saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The wrongful practice of promoting a party hall in a Gurdwara property serving alcohol, meat and allowing people to smoke under the banner of Baba Jassa Singh Ramgharia is morally offensive to our puratan forefathers and unacceptable.

Just because someone has divided the Panth many many years ago, does not mean it still has to be accepted. If we cloud this with “caste bashing” comments then all we will do is intensify the smokescreen of individual prejudices which will carry on masking this beadbi, like it has for many years.

This is a Sangat issue, just like Grays was, just like Edinburgh was. And it needs addressing by each and every person that labels themselves as a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. There's no them or us in this. We all need to see that we are part of the same Sikh spirtual gene pool and if one of our own brothers is slipping then we need to help him back up again.

It's time to intensify dailogue with all the Gurdwara Committees or Sangat members who have allowed themselves to slip into promoting the manmat of alcohol fueled parties in Gurdwaras. If that fails then the only option is a peaceful protest outside the hall to raise awareness.