What If We Protested Like They Are In Egypt?

[just a soul]

I was thinking the exact same thing. But there are some key obstacles:

1) Throughout the entire Egyt protests, any police/army or any government reprsentation was no where to be seen - they just left them to it. If we were to do this in India, the army (with sikhs included in it) would come out in their masses and repeat 1984 riots. We would be outnumbered easily, mass loss of ilfe and still not got any further.

2) India would not get this kind of Media coverage - possibly from Al Jazeera the only unbiased/non-corrupt media channel in 2011. but to be effective it needs to get the attention of western leaders via the media - even the egypt riots hasnt got obama to say "this is out of order - he need to go" so in a way it needs to be BIGGER than Egypt.

3) We would struggle to motivate SO many people to travel to turn up without somebody as motivating as Sant Ji Bindrawale - or equivalent (no dis-repect to Sant Ji just mean a motivating person)

4) I personally think the london rally falls on deaf ears and it has just become a bit of a jolly for everyone to have a nice little meet up and catch up with everyone once a year. Something more drastic needs to be done. - it needs to be meticulously planned and organised to a T with motivated people whose primary objective would be khalistan.

i really feel strongly about this.

[MentalSingh]

I think a similar protest in Punjab would be ideal to try and get reform and change in the region. It would also mobilse the Sikhs and get them united and in return they would get better autonomy in Punjab. This will result better jobs and education and will in return benefit the Sikh community. Its the only proven way to get change and what has happened in Egypt and Tunisia are examples of what people can do when they are united.

[just a soul]

what about getting a high profile person involved like the Gurkas did?

Get the protests treding on twitter like the save libraries protests did?

I like the idea of turning up to high profile indian events too.

A plan needs to be put together an a campign with dates and actions etc

The media rely massively on twitter for news sources - it should be pursued

[VanHelsingh]

And for anyone who asks why would the UK or US back us?

In 2010 David Cameron described Indian - British relations as the "New Special Relationship"

The US see's India as it's ally in the fight against terrosim with Pakistam and Afghanistan.

The relationship is there - we just need to exploit it.

With all due respect sister, that relationship is not with the Sikhs. Its with the ruling Hindu classes, the millionaire Hindu leaders and politicians who are in positions to hand-out trade contracts to the UK. We (the Sikh community) are against the very core of what India is at the moment. We're the annoying up-starts (not my words but the perception of us) who won't stay quiet and forget the injustices handed out to us. If anything, Sikhs are the enemy of the Indian state, and as such we are - indirectly - in conflict with people and governments who cosy up to the Indian state. The U.K. and U.S. are no more friendly to the Sikhs than they are to the Jains, for example.

If action is to be taken, it will be without the support or blessing of these Western governments. Again, I come to the underlying fact - what have we got that the UK and US need? Nothing. As such, they will never support us because they don't want to risk upsetting the Indian state. You only have to look at how the UK and US tread carefully with the Chinese.

We all know the human rights violations made by the Chinese against its own people. You don't see the UK and US invading China. Why? Because they have a 'matlab' with China. Billions of dollars worth of trade contracts. That's all it comes down to. Morals, justice, democracy - just words to these so-called civilised Western democracies. Like everyone else in the world, money talks.

[Southall Youth]

On the egyptian issue Mubarak should stay if he goes it will be worse than Iraq

On us -

It can be done as has been seen in the past with the protests against Deras we can shut Panjab down in a few hours and paralyse norhtern India in a few days.In 1984 in the build up to Bluestar the final thing we did was to stop grain and so on from leaving the Panjab ,which paralysed the food supply canals were also blocked.

But that was then we should do similar things now as well as we have more media social networking and wider communication,but knowing how India works they can still commit genocide in this modern day and get away with it as seen in 2007 with the Christians word did get out but thats it,little does the world know it was a full genocide!

If we was to do something similar we would 1st need PROPER Jathedars that inlcuding the Akal Takht ,these Jathedars should not be Badals.Jathedar Nandgarh should be incharge personally I believe as he declared he wanted Ram Rahims head on a plate I can't say how i feel about Jathedar Gurbachan Singh as its against forum rules to say what I feel about him all I will say is if we have further Badal controlled jathedars like him we will get nowhere.We need true leaders for a fully fledged situation or otherwise these Sants,Jathedars will give speeches Singhs will get shot on site like in Ludhiana we expect another uprising but it never happens as our leaders back out and get sold out they kill the spirit in us through maya and wordly needs.

The Govt forces are also diff in Panjab police army and what not,in Egypt they are holding back and some say they are with the people.In Panjab even after our Harmandar Sahib has been attacked and Sisters raped our so called Brothers still serve Delhi and the State,and will not hesitate to shoot true Sikhs or as recenlty kill them in false encouters like Shaheed Bhai Shaminder Singh Shera.

* Get rid of useless leaders within us

*Organise and educate the community 1st who don't seem to be bothered apart from the handful of us

*Use media to our full advantage as well as the net

*Create divisions up and down Panjab and have hoodies with names ie : Ludhiana Division ,Jallandar Division ,Amritsar Division and then have smaller divisions in towns then in Villages.It will be easier to start of from cities then in to towns then villages to create a mass movement - while at the same time also have parchaar in Villages but the organisation should be from the top down Cities - villages as the cities will be the nerve centres leading out ,they will have the internet access ,finance and knowledge to start something.

I also believe Sikhs will have to be armed with firearms and weapons - the Panjab Police as we know can kill you for no reason even now imagine during a revolution just as in Egypt Police stations needs to be attacked with full force their supplies weapons taken and used for the DEFENCE OF PEOPLE (NOTE before some Hindu agent claims im promoting terror I say for the DEFENCE OF THE PEOPLE which is legit under International Law to pick up arms when under threat from the state and have no means of defence.

Once Sikhs have the weapons they need to organise control of the infrastructure electric and water and also food supplies ,while I highly doubt the army will support the Sikhs,a small percentage will like in 1984 but will probably be caught and possibly killed ,but in any circumstance Akal Takht Sahib has to give binding orders to the Panth on what actions need to be taken

In Short LIBERATE SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB

have good leaders - and we have our revolution !

On the issue of Sikhs not being bothered in Panjab and in the UK as most aint - thats fact they will only wake up when the next farmer who commits suicide is from their family or when their families are raped and killed ,thats the harsh reality if we forget 1984 we should be ready for another one and sadly we are on that path as even our leaders have sold out

SAD TIMES

**On america Obama is well known to be linked to the Hindutva lobby in the US and India - we shouldn't expect nothing from him,look at him now telling Mubarak to step down who the hell is he to say that,he was on about History in the making last night Mubarak shut him up and told him not to interfere .Bush had a more Anti India stance and was good at keeping India down - as Babbu Mann says 'Jithgya Obama hai khush bareh bharti'

[KhalistaniGunMan]

Personally i think we should go down the same route as the jews did...become a large..highly educated and highly wealthy diaspora community...and then just bide out time till we get enough influence and power to project our own interests and policies...like you said kaljugi..money is power...and power is what the sikhs need

[VanHelsingh]

I'm actually thinking of writing a blueprint about how change could be brought about for us in Panjab. Nothing official - just thoughts and theories taking into account politics, international relations, the use of the media, etc. Sadly change will not come about purely through religious endeavours alone. Any nation building must go through some unpalatable stages before the real vision can be implemented.

We need to be a bit more pro-active and forward-thinking and stop hoping that something will fall out of the sky and lead us towards the promised land. Those days are sadly gone. I hope I'm wrong and we are blessed with a leader from Waheguru's home, but in the meanwhile we can't sit on our hands expecting a holy revelation to appear. Remember, God helps those who help themselves.

[D Kaur]

I guess i'm not getting my point across - Yes India and the US have relations with India.

Yes we are a part of India.

Putting the need to have a seperate state aside (for now) - we need to raise awareness of what goes on India to the world.

Why would people care?

The world cares (Animal rights activists) about the animals being consumed in China

The world cared about the numerous people being stoned to death in pakistan / afganistan

The world cared when a cat was thrown in a wheelie bin for 15+ hours - and cried outrage - one event went worldwide within hours -The woman was vilified...

In India, lives are being taken by the police. But the rest of the world dosnt know this?

India is a tourist attraction, would westenners want to visit for a cultural trip if they knew that the police were corruptand they were undafe? No they'd opt to go on a safari in africa instead

People may not take our side, but atleast we can raise awareness, if deserve the right to be safe in India.

But the world thinks India is perfect.

The world knows about the catholic's and protestants, it knows about the plight in Ireland and the IRA.

The world knows about Idi Amin, and what happened in Uganda.

We know about the Gurkhas, the palestinians, the gaza strip, jews, the kosovans... we know there are issues, we know there are injustices...

No one knows about Sikhs? The assumption is that it's all hunky dory in India.

We could take the stance that why would people want to help? nothing will change... If we were savy about this we could protest on key days - protests and negative publicity will effect the indian stock market if only for a short period (it happend in egypt, and happens in all countries when they are big concerns), and it would happen in india as there are many economical links between India and the UK....

And as suggested stop the wheat from going out for a planned 2 day period?

Hit them financially and with time they just start to listen, and realise that they cant treat Sikhs in India the way they have been doing.

Planned Oil strikes in the UK - cause mahem... planned and agreed mahem is good. Planned and agreed protests in india cant be punished with the world watching? (I sincerly hope)

We cant get our point across by force, we cant rely on anyone to help us... but if we can cause even a tremor in the Indian Stock Market for a few days... it will let the indian government know that there actions in India will be answered by the Sikhs in the rest of the World.

And were not asking the UK to take the Sikh side against the Hindu/Muslim - Were asking for human rights, against the indian government and police.

Hopefully Sikh Organisations may see this post and arrange a peaceful global event. Other countries inability to make change should not be a reason for us not to try, and make India a better place to live.

These are just my thoughts, i cant shout them at the TV when watching Sangat / Sikh TV / Sikh Channel, so i thought i'd post here...

Post is made - hopefully somthing will come out of it.

We need to be a bit more pro-active and forward-thinking and stop hoping that something will fall out of the sky and lead us towards the promised land. Those days are sadly gone. I hope I'm wrong and we are blessed with a leader from Waheguru's home, but in the meanwhile we can't sit on our hands expecting a holy revelation to appear. Remember, God helps those who help themselves.

I agree completely!

[VanHelsingh]

To ask for a homeland and base our initial protests around that ideal as the first step of action, would be a huge mistake in my opinion. This needs to come at a later stage when we've got our foot in the door, as it were.

Very briefly, here's how I would do it if were up to me. This is completely off the top of my head and subject to corrections.

The Political and Socio-Economic Phase

1. Justice for the 80's and 90's pogroms against the Sikhs. Clearly request the perpertrators to be brought to justice. So - for example - Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler, etc., need to be tried and convicted. No delayed court-cases or any of that nonsense. I'm tempted to say Amitabh Bachchan too but that's probably pushing our luck.

For this endeavour to work, it would need to involve much more than a few groups or organisations. It needs the will of the collective international Sikh community. Also, this is one issue where we wouldn't start fighting amongst ourselves. Its a black and white issue. I can't foresee how any Sikh would disagree with another Sikh about this issue, regardless of jathebandi affiliation.

2. Put Panjabi agricultural decisions back into the control of the Panjabi people. Delhi cannot continue to siphon off millions whilst the people of Panjab toil for peanuts.

3. Education and employment are absolutely vital. Give Panjabi (thereby Sikh) kids the hope that at the end of their studies, they will have decent employment opportunities if agriculture is not their thing. Like the Hindu middle and upper classes, we must have a white-collar section of Sikh society if any long-term progress is to be made. If opportunities are created at home, youngsters won't flee overseas. Other important issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, etc., would also need to be tackled.

Then, the theological issues would need to be addressed. Now this is where it gets sticky and every Tajinder, Davinder and Harvinder would begin to stick his oar in. Its at this point I simply don't know how to approach the situation. Well I do but I'll no doubt upset one group or another and everything will most likely collapse. One thing I will say is this: Get rid of the Badal dynasty completely. Sikhs from Panjab, the UK , the US and Canada would need to be involved. Decisions would need to be made according to Sikhi, and not potential votes, seats, friends, zameen, money, etc.

My word it's an impossible task.

[just a soul]

Kaljugi - you are spot on - it is a massive task but not impossible. It would take us years to do the planning but still possible. There are plenty of motivated people to help.

I would say the starting point being simply listing the international organisations we need to get involved. then get together - skpe or whatever - mind map all the possibilities. from there we can draw out priorities and risks. Then the recruitment begins - share with wider sangat.

Is this really naive of me?