I Want Peoples Views - Should There Be A Khalistan Or Not?

[hsisingh]

IF the people of punjab don't want Khalistan, then it should not be pushed on them. It's been said before and I'll say it again. The people in Punjab and in other states need to be taught about Gurmat all over again. Only then will the oppressed be able to see what kind of state they are in and what needs to be done. The parchar needs to start with Gurmat in Punjab and then watch the people of Punjab want slavery to be lifted from them. The teaching of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj needs to be taught first before the sword can be carried in the Tenth form of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj.

So the oppressed currently don't know that they are oppressed?

Only a small minority of Sikhs living in countries such as Canada and the UK (who would never consider moving back to the Punjab because life is much more comfortable in the immoral West) can see this oppression going on in India?

[Only five]

So the oppressed currently don't know that they are oppressed?

Only a small minority of Sikhs living in countries such as Canada and the UK (who would never consider moving back to the Punjab because life is much more comfortable in the immoral West) can see this oppression going on in India?

Your too full of negativity and anger toward Sikhi to see what I'm saying. People of punjab don't want Khalistan for numerous reasons. They have gone back into the caste system, they fight amongst each other on caste, they have resorted to alcohol as a way to escape from the world. They are in debt. The youth have been lost to drugs. In their eyes they believe they are doing what they want because they have the freedom to curse, use the corrupt system to achieve what they want, and are higher than the lower caste. Many of them say we are living the life. We don't have to work (land is leased out), we have drinks every day, we can indulge in other manmat practices. They have no problem with drinking alcohol when paat is being read on the loud speakers. These according to Gurbani are all forms of oppression, but these guys take it as freedom to do what they want. When you have to use corruption to get what you want, then you are oppressed. Nothing happens without paying someone off in Punjab.

Doing parchar of Gurbani to these people will remove all this oppression from them and they will be able to see, if corruption is the enemy then don't join in, but create a root with unity to eradicate all the oppression that is on us. Gurbani is what woke the people of Punjab up in history and Gurbani will wake up them up again. People in Canada and UK are oppressed in the same manner, but to a way lesser degree. Again look at it through the eyes of Gurbani.

[OhTwadi]

I do love Jassa's reply

If today 2011 khalistan is made it will surely end up in sikh civil war ... may it be based on caste system ... may it be based on jatha system or may it be based mona vs kesadhari sikh etc ... and it can be predicted just by looking at sikh sangat forum ...

How it will start lets say khalistan is made today what whould be the very first thing change mareyada of akal takth sahib ... at that very point swords would come out between all the major jathebandis ...

Till we dont have sense of listening which requires far more control and energy then using sense of speaking which we are champions at its sure that khalistan keeping the in mind mindset of sikhs today it would end up sikhs killing sikhs on the name of guru and mareyada ...

Let me tell you something ; My wife is from India and has a good university education etc but..... It was only when she came to England that she learn't. for the first time in her life, that Punjab used to be a totaly seperate Kingdom. It was only when she came to England that she learn't the supreme difference between what were formerly princely states within an umbrella of 'India' and totaly seperate suzerainties.....a type of suzerainty that grants autonomy to princely states. It was only when she came to england that she learn't what happened in Delhi in 1984. It was only when she came to england that she learn't what happened in Punjab from 1984 to 1992. It was only when she came to England that she learn't what tricks are lies were used to make Punjab part of India in the first place. This list is endless. I could go on and on with it. The point though, is that it is not the fault of the Sikhs in Punjab that they believe what they believe. They, unfortunately, have not been taught the truth in their schools and colleges, media etc. They have been force fed lies for generations. Any Sikh living amongst them that knew the truth was killed by the Indians between 1984 and 1992. Once you educate them about their glorious history they show themselves to be the most passionate Khalistanis of all.

No offense intended to you or your wife, but I'm from Punjab as well and I knew about all the points you have mentioned above, except attack on darbar sahib. I was only 14 when I came to Canada so it's understandable that my parents didn't give that information to me. Fast forward over a decade and my friends who are currently living in Punjab do know about all the above and they know it in quite a bit of detail as well. I'm not sure why your wife didn't know about any of those things :huh: Again, no offense intended to you or your wife

[West London Singh]

Again, no offense intended to you or your wife

Oh no offence taken fella. Its just that unlike you she was neither a lazy so and so nor born with a silver spoon in her mouth. When you live on the khoo you are born to work hard. You don't have time to sit and discuss politics, and who would you discuss politics with anyway / ...any discussion would normally involve whether or not it was time to feed the patte to the cows. When you live on the khoo you have to be the jack of all trades at a moments notice. Guests appear out of nowhere and because you a long way off from the next nearest house you have to fatta phatt at a moments notice, single handedly source, cut and prepare and cook khana peena. When your dad dies young and your brother lives in Canada you have to toughen up in a mans world. Despite being a woman you have to help your mum with the hard physical labour of intensive farming as well as driving the tractor to haala badh and taking the trolly to the mandi and mill and standing your own against the viscious mysoginists there. When you live in an isolated location alone with your mum you have to be tough in order to survive in a world full of killers, robbers and rapists high on drugs. That meant sleeping each night with a kirpan at the ready. Ready to kill. A night-time with not much sleep anyway because with a candle by your side that was practically the only hours you get to study for your exams.

So....tell me....what do you expect that a sarkari school and college would teach them about how many sikhs KPS Gill killed....if it mentiones it at all ?

What do you think the sarkari school and college teaches them about Operation Woodrose.....if it mentiones it at all ?

What do you think the sarkari school and college teaches them about Delhi in 1984....if it mentiones it at all ?

Moral of the story, my friend ? Moral of the story is that if you wish to cast aspersions on the intellect of others that came from Punjab there will be a hundred others that will cast aspersions about you being useless, good for nothing and born with the priveledge of having enough spare time on your hands of being able to do some independant research and study. Most like my wife had to devote 99% of their time and effort into survival. Not for them were the luxuries of the libraries. Not for them were the luxuries of information via the internet. Not for them was time to sit and discuss world affairs. Not they who had friends and acquaintances in the know as a source of information. For them was hard work....followed by more hard work. What they 'knew' about politics and events was what their govt education told them was the truth.

Whilst I do commend the fact that your private education in Punjab gave you access to the truth I do lament that it turned out a man that is oblivious as to how the common man and woman lives and survives.

I reiterate then, the point I made before : Not only my wife but all my other recent female arrivals from Punjab also....Only found out the true extent of what happened in Delhi 1984 when they came to England. They only found out what lies Nehru used to trick the Sikhs into accepting being part of India in 1947 when they came to England. They only found out that upwards of a quarter of a million sikhs were killed by the Indians during Operation Woodrose when they came to England. This list is endless.

[hsisingh]

Oh no offence taken fella. Its just that unlike you she was neither a lazy so and so nor born with a silver spoon in her mouth. When you live on the khoo you are born to work hard. You don't have time to ..............................

I reiterate then, the point I made before : Not only my wife but all my other recent female arrivals from Punjab also....Only found out the true extent of what happened in Delhi 1984 when they came to England. They only found out what lies Nehru used to trick the Sikhs into accepting being part of India in 1947 when they came to England. They only found out that upwards of a quarter of a million sikhs were killed by the Indians during Operation Woodrose when they came to England. This list is endless.

Your wife sounds like a wonderfully strong and intelligent person and you are lucky. You shouldn't have a chip on your shoulder about her background.

Any person who can combine a tough rural life, defending their family and obtaining a good University education needs to be applauded. I know other people who too have married freshies and they are not as lucky as you.

Be grateful.

[chatanga]

That's why it's SO important to frankly, openly and honestly discuss the issues at hand even before we make a move for Khalistan, so that when it happens, we wont be plagued by them afterwards.

It's just a shame that some people seem to stifle this debate so often.

The key to this is tolerance. Some Sikhs are just so intolerant of other sikhs views if they differ with their own, so they class them as "other" and not sikhs. when we get over this, we will progress. As my Namdhari sangeet Guru said to me(pro-Khalistan), and a Nihang(not in favour of it), when discussing Khalistan : " When people from different branches of Sikhi can sit together and talk like humans without fighting or forcing thier beliefs on others Sikhs will become strong enough to make Khalistan.

[Ek0sikh]

Khalistan with its PM sitting in Canada.finance minister in UK. Defence in pakistan.some others in Holland. Some in has.........as they don't want to or can't get back there.....what are you talking about? True Khalistanis died fighting long time back.....purja purja kat mare

[DashingSingh]

Question: Who coined the word "Khalistan" ?

Awnser : Jagjit Singh Chauhan, after meeting Indira khan in Delhi.

Jagjit Chauhan then offered the Indira's idea of Khalistan to Bhindranwala to which his exact response was " We would accept khalistan if given" .

Question: What was the Govt's interest in promoting Khalistan Movement?

Answer: To suppress Anandpur Resolution and its legitimate demands. And Govt was very successful in doing so.

Question: Have Sikhs gained anything out of Khalistan issue?

Answer : Never, infact suffered very heavily. Even today this issue is used to abuse Sikhs and label Sikhs as terrorists.

Question:So whoes movement was it ?

Answer : Indira khan's movement .

Question: Who gained the most out of this Khalistan issue?

Answer: Politically it was boon for Indira and her son Rajiv, specially after Emergency that made her very infamous.

Question: Who demand Khalistan these days the most?

Answer : NRI's mostly.

Since khalistan issue only harms Sikhs I think we should look for other options, like reviving Anandpur Resolution.

[clarity]

First of all I can say many of the people against Khalistan on this thread are either disinformation artists or just scared

Che Guevera took 16 men and took Cuba

As we speak China is mobilising thousands and thousands of troops on Indias borders

Communists dont want anything to do with India as it is

right wing real hindus dont want anything to do with Brahmins

Sonia is West controlled

There are Bangladeshis who want spereation

There are millions of Muslims with their eyes on hindu women and vice versa

RSS & Hindutva are incompatible with Sikhs and the majority of India

Indias Christians are miffed at their treatment at the hand of hindus

There is a massive wealth gap between rich and poor

Sikhs are being oppressed every day up until last week

Posters on this forum assume that the hundreds of thousands of Sikhs who have had relations murdered have forgotten about it (dont be so stupid)

Sikhs have wealth in India and abroad as well as political expertise hence Badal fighting in Delhi now and numerous Sikh gurdwaras across the world

The sgpc has untold wealth for the establishment of Sikh sovereignty you think they have been spending it all of this time

There are numerous reports of new mass graves being found every day

Most important of all we have Guru Granth Sahib Ji being reciited in every country in the world every day and we all believe Raj Karega Khalsa

You seriously think there wont be a Khalistan you people seriously underestimate the valour and tenacity of Sikhs worldwide

Sikhs like the Jews dont have a homeland so all of our motivation and drive will go into acquiring wealth after we have aqcuired all of that wealth we like the Jews will be wondering where our nation is which is why massive amounts of India budget is going towards getting information supressed on the internet and in gurdwaras across the world

There are just too many of us which have been treated like dirt with families and children being murdered Sikhs are known to have a long memory we never forget when everybody thinks we are down we pop up and surprise the world

And finally we are not scared like many on here

[11Gurus1Jot]

To the person who started this thread!

Justice or Khalistan, either one will do!!!:waheguru:

I don't want a separate state called Khalistan, I just want Justice for all the crimes that have clearly been commited by the indian govt against innocent children, women and men, who were Sikhs! (And the Sikh Dispora as a whole!!)

If anyone does not know what the crimes I am referring to are, which the indian govt comiited against the Sikhs, then we could happily start another thread for you. These crimes would span many years up until the current day!!!

However, if Justice is NOT being given, which is clearly is not, then can anyone tell me if there is an option, other than Khalistan???????

Sikhs only want one or the other, surely, that is not unreasonable?

Justice or Khalistan, either one will do!!!:waheguru: