Please Don'T Talk Over Me!

[11Gurus1Jot]

Blimey :o What is this....National Have a go at west London Singh day ?

Nah seriously bruvs...i don't mind you asking me a serious direct question at all. I will though...if you don't mind...answer your question in a rather cryptic way....but an apt answer nonetheless.

The Gurus, whilst on this earth in physical form , told us to meet each other whenever possible in the Gurdwaras (Dharmsalas) and discuss local and current affairs with each other.

Mere mortals, after the 10th masters death, themselves decided to change the nature of those places from a dharmsala to a gurdwara.

Your own question right back at ya then : Why is it that you value the traditions started by mortals over the teachings of our gurus ?

(and please remember brother....I have clearly pointed out that I have in no way condoned the very loud talking in darbar hall etc. I have merely pointed out that the Gurdwara has always been a place for sikhs to meet and greet each other. On any given day at the Gurdwara you have to remember that not everyone there is there for the same reason as yourself. With the art of the pachola virtually dead now it is the gurdwara and its marriage lists that are the mainstays of today's arranged marriages...and the place the prospective bride and groom have their first meeting. Some are there to have their Punjabi classes. Some are there to have their gatka classes. etc etc. Others....do as has always been done....sit and talk about whats going on )

I'd rather have a direct answer, and not in a rather cryptic way.. nonetheless. If you don't feel that you can openly declare that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is your only Guru today, then, we all understand. All your posts are confusing (cryptic) for everyone. Sikhi is about truth and straight talking, withput any duality (that's what we all get when we read the shabad).

So do you still want to answer: Have you got a higher entity you worship other the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Waheguru). Please give the name of that entity you view higher than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, unless, you are ashamed of that entity! We'd understand!!

I still come back to my original point. Do you think people should do what you're saying above in all the other rooms in the Gurdwara, where they are free and welcome to talk, but remain silent in the Main Darbar when Guru Ji is in Parkaash/present? A simple yes or no would be good here! Rather than your usual trick of confusing threads to mislead the none members coming across this site!!!

[das amritpal singh]

I am sorry, but i dont really know how to paste in gurmukhi. So here is some guidance from Bhai(Sant?) Gurdas Jee in english with STTM2 translations.

gurasikh bhalakae outh kar anmrith vaelae sar naavandhaa|

The Gurmukh getting up in ambrosial hours of the early morning takes bath in the sacred tank.

gur kai bachan ouchaar kai dharamasaal dhee surath karandhaa|

Reciting the Holy hymns of the Guru, he moves towards Gurdwara, the central place for Sikh.

saadhasangath vich jaae kai gurabaanee dhae preeth sunandhaa|

There, joining the Holy Congregation, he lovingly listens to Gurbani, the Holy hymns of the Guru.

sankaa manahu mittaae kai gur sikhaa dhee saev karandhaa|

Effacing all doubt from his mind he serves the Sikhs of the Guru.

kirath virath kar dharam dhee lai parasaadh aan varathandhaa|

Then by righteous means he earns his livelihood and he distributes the hard-earned meal among the needy ones.

gurasikhaa no dhaee kar pisho bachiaa aap khavandhaa|

Offering first, to the Sikhs of Guru, the remainder he himself eats.

kalee kaal paragaas kar gur chaelaa chaelaa gur sandhaa|

In this dark age, illumined by such feelings, the disciple becomes Guru and Guru disciple.

guramukh gaaddee raahu chalandhaa |11|

The Gurmukhs tread on such a highway (of religious life).(11)

gur sikhee dhaa sikhanaa gur sikh sikhan bajar bhaaraa|

Learning of the Sikh way of life is as tough as the thunderbolt and only the Sikhs of the Guru learn it.

gur sikhee dhaa likhanaa laekh alaekh n likhanehaaraa|

Writing about the Sikh-life is also beyond all accounts, none can write.

gur sikhee dhaa tholanaa thul n thol thulai thuladhaaraa|

No scale can weigh the Sikh way of life.

gur sikhee dhaa dhaekhanaa guramukh saadhasangath guradhuaaraa|

The glimpse of the Sikh life can be had only in the Holy Congregation and the Gurdwara, the door of the Lord.

gur sikhee dhaa chakhanaa saadhasangath gur sabadh veechaaraa|

Pondering upon the word of Guru in the Holy Congregation is like tasting of the Sikh way of life.

gur sikhee dhaa samajhanaa jothee joth jagaavanehaaraa|

Understanding the Sikh life is like kindling the flame of the Lord.

guramukh sukh fal piram piaaraa |7|

The pleasure-fruit of the Gurmukhs is the Love of the dear Lord.(7)

It appears that a gurdwaras(dharamsalas) main aim is to provide sadhsangat that will encourage us to sing vaheguru's praises, do veechar, do seva etc... If a bunch of people sit and do gossip/nindea/chuglea thats not exactly going to inspire anyone to join with parmaatma.

Weekly catchup is not a bad thing, but there is always a time and a place. I doubt many Sikhs would have been having their own conversations whilst Guru jee were singing Gurbani and giving guidance.

I personally find it very disrespectful, distracting and insulting. People matha tekna and in doing that pledge their head to the Guru and accept the Guru as the master and as the ultimate giver of knowledge. They then turn into hypocrites and talk over the teachings from the Guru while they distract others as well.

Inside divan hall(within maharaj's hazuri) ==> simran, kirtan, veechar, etc

anywhere else ==> catch up with the weekly (daily for some people) gossip

[Singh559]

I hate it. In my experience it's usually women too. (Sorry sisters but it's true)

I agree, there are many cases when I wish to get up and say if you don't want to listen to Guru Ji, please leave. It sounds horrible, but it's generally true.

[11Gurus1Jot]

I hate it. In my experience it's usually women too. (Sorry sisters but it's true)

I agree, there are many cases when I wish to get up and say if you don't want to listen to Guru Ji, please leave. It sounds horrible, but it's generally true.

I've been there when the stage secretary or giani has very politely announced it on the mic, and it's also been typed on the screen! They say please do not talk in the Darbar, or whilst Guru Ji's part is being recited! But, still, these women, and some men, keep talking. What I am saying is, these people/adults are fully aware of the disrespect, beadbi, they are commiting towards Guru Ji, but still the carry on.

What I am saying is some people have tried what Singh559 has suggested, on the mic, and screen, but still it does not work!!

I still maintain that these people/adults have plenty of other rooms in the gurdwara to talk in, like the lungar hall, lobbies, different rooms on different floors, by the shoes, in the car park, or private outside area, etc etc all within the Gurdwara (and all the places in the rest of the world in general!!). But still, they save their conversations for Guru Ji's Darbar, in Guru Ji's presence! I'm sorry, I'd like to 'cut them some slack...' but I just think the FACTS point to this being a very unneccesary act on the part of the people/adults who commit this disrespect!!!

[AshleyB]

Yes it is usually women, and their crazy children. Children, running and screaming and spinning in circles and playing with toys...next kid that runs by me, I think I'm going to trip him... On that same note...I sat with the men the other day, it was really nice...and quiet. I think I may do that again.

[11Gurus1Jot]

Yes it is usually women, and their crazy children. Children, running and screaming and spinning in circles and playing with toys...next kid that runs by me, I think I'm going to trip him... On that same note...I sat with the men the other day, it was really nice...and quiet. I think I may do that again.

I find it hard to be upset against the children, cus they're just children, so don't know better. Plus, I think it's good for children to be in the darbar!

The adults however, have no excuse. The adults can talk as much as they wish, every where in the world!!! I'd love to see the adults chat and chat and chat, and then even encourange them to chat more, if it made them happier!!! I would be happy to see them chat, and chat, and chat, and chat, and chat... all around the Gurdwara, in every room, they could chat standing up, sitting on a chair, sitting on the floor, lying down on the floor, perched on the window cills, and anywhere else they want to chat in the gurdwara, they should chat, until their throats are sore, if they want, or chat until they get a headache. I love to see them chat....

but not in the Darbar please, in Guru Ji's presence. It's a very small 'ask' really, isn't it? Why can't these adults follow this simple, easy to achieve, request???

[Singh559]

Yes it is usually women, and their crazy children. Children, running and screaming and spinning in circles and playing with toys...next kid that runs by me, I think I'm going to trip him... On that same note...I sat with the men the other day, it was really nice...and quiet. I think I may do that again.

Yeah, sadly it's usually the fault of the parents for not controlling the kids...

I remember at the Yuba City Nagar Kirtan (night before the Nagar Kirtan) inside the Darbar Sahib the hall was filled and the womens side was so loud as they were engaging in casual talking. A few Singhnian came to the male side because it was too distracting to sit where there was too much noise.

[Guest RavindaSingh]

I totally understand you my brother but there is always other side of the coin.

During our Guru Sahibs time: English, hindi, urdu and other languages were there but our guru sahib jee specifically gave gurmukhi upper hand. Our Guru Sahib jee created Gurmukhi language for a reason. To understand gurmukhi, learning punjabi is important. Young kid's parent should make effort to teach them how to speak/write/speak punjabi. Pracharak should know english language but still lack of english pracharak is no excuse for kids or parents for not taking interest in sikhi. Mostly all gurdwaras got STTM projection system. In future, some may say that pracharak should know how to give sikhi lessons in rap style. Kids are innocent. It is all parents fault who do not take enough steps to instill sikhi culture and religion in their kid's life during early years.

Tru say brother i kno for a fact that im findin it hard to talk panjabi and read and write because it wasnt such a heavy influence from parents when growin up but im learning and maharaja's kirpa ill get ther soon !! :waheguru: i dont blame my parents i just wish back then they were more in tune with sikhi and the principles

[HumSaadJanaaKaaKeera]

I once made a sign that said "chup daa daan baksho" ...(Im not sure if thats how you spell it in English for this post). And held it infront of the bibiya and then taped it on thier wall where its noticable. It definitly helped =)

Sometimes we just have to step in there and do something about it rather than getting frustrated

[damita98]

Wow, this seems very disrespectful. The word of God whether spoken or sung is to be respected. Save your chatter for after you are done worshiping. This really shocks me that people would do this. I could never be that disrespectful to others and to God.