Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden Is Dead !

[dalsingh101]

All things said and done, talking between Sikh brothers, I think it is really dangerous and foolish for us to accept any of the simplistic narratives that is used to frame this conflict by those involved in it.

Truth is, on a closer inspection this black and white framing of clear 'good guys' and 'bad guys' starts to fuzz. In reality that is just done for public consumption anyway. Painting all of this in simple strokes is dangerous for us (as Sikhs) in a number of ways.

Accepting such a 'dumbed down' perspective of the situation doesn't help us develop a deeper understanding of the wider political and cultural context of what we are witnessing. If we are going to talk of the Bin Ladens, Saddams or even Qaddafis of the world we shouldn't be ignorant of their previous relationships with the very nations that have now turned against them. When we do this, we see the true nature of the people who are trying to portray themselves as the moral voice. We learn that in reality, they have no objection to supporting and befriending tyrants as long as it serves their (usually economic) interests.

'But why are such things important?' you may ask. Because we as a people need to grow up too. Hitherto Sikhs have been mainly very simple folk, from rural backgrounds. If we are ever going to achieve statehood and self rule, our political naivety and simplicity have to end. We have to grow up and see things more carefully and objectively. Developing these skills and understandings will be what ensures our own survival in future. Otherwise we will continue to be a politically insignificant people who are stuck in the middle of other nation's battles, choosing sides based on who has the best propaganda (as opposed to carefully trying to establish the truth independently).

We can't afford to be this dumb. We have to learn to look after our own interests, because it appears as if everyone bar us are doing just this. Often very ruthlessly too.

ਜਾਗਦੀ ਜ਼ਮੀਰ ਰੱਖੋ ਭਰਾਵੋ ਨੀ ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੇ ਚਮਚੇ ਜਾਂ ਗੁਲਾਮ ਰਹਿਣਾ

[GPS]

I do not see this dispute from political angle.

The truth is Osama went on murdering spree of innocents. What was the fault of those innocents that he killed

in cold blood. So he had to pay for that. It is God's way of dispensing justice. He reaped what he sowed.

Sikhism does not endorse killling of innocents. It is sad that he had to face such a horrible death. But it was result

of his previous actions.

[dalsingh101]

I do not see this dispute from political angle.

The truth is Osama went on murdering spree of innocents. What was the fault of those innocents that he killed

in cold blood. So he had to pay for that. It is God's way of dispensing justice. He reaped what he sowed.

Sikhism does not endorse killling of innocents. It is sad that he had to face such a horrible death. But it was result

of his previous actions.

Do you know how many innocent Iraqis have died due to some cooked up WMD claims - by your reasoning shouldn't Bush and Blair themselves be executed for this, as they instigated the conflict?

Please try not to respond with brain dead, American style 'patriotic' jingoism btw. As I said, it's more complicated than the narrative pushed out for the feeble minded to consume.

[Singh559]

I agree with DalSingh how so many innocent civilians were killed in Iraq for legitimate reason, the whole war in Iraq wasn't legitimate.

With that said, I also believe Osama got what he deserves:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110503/ts_yblog_theenvoy/in-aftermath-of-bin-laden-raid-new-intelligence-shifting-accounts

Interesting to see that Osama wasn't armed when they killed him and his wife is still alive, i wonder if they're in U.S. custody?

[GPS]

Do you know how many innocent Iraqis have died due to some cooked up WMD claims - by your reasoning shouldn't Bush and Blair themselves be executed for this, as they instigated the conflict?

Please try not to respond with brain dead, American style 'patriotic' jingoism btw. As I said, it's more complicated than the narrative pushed out for the feeble minded to consume.

Two wrongs do not make one right. Take Osama case separately.

Do you know how many innocents Saddam Hussain had killed?

He was a ruthless dictator.

[Singh559]

Two wrongs do not make one right. Take Osama case separately.

Do you know how many innocents Saddam Hussain had killed?

He was a ruthless dictator.

Very easy reply, under his regime less innocent people were killed and he hated terrorists. He kept the peace between the shiite and sunni muslims.

The Iraqis were better off with Saddam, but he still should have been brought to justice, but knowing the knowledge that you action of removing Saddam will directly murder countless innocent civilians and take US lives would you do it? No, you would not.

If the US troops can wake up, why can't we? I know a Singh who served in the marines in Iraq and he came back and got back into Sikhi and kept kesh. He realized what really went on because he was ACTUALLY THERE. We have the power to understand what goes on in the world and have a DUTY as Sikhs to learn about the political spectrum around the world.

[S1ngh]

None of em are good.. Both side killed or are still killing innocent ppl in the name of religion, political, financial and many other motives... Most probably it will be one of them that this world will end in just few seconds. Human are worse than animals. There is no way to tame human... just look at shy 200+ years ago history when british were doing same what americans are doing today. Go back even more and then you see napolean, genghis khan, alexander the great and so on.. Bin Laden group killed thousands of innocents in the name of religion while the west killed in the name of "collateral damage". Killing is just plain killing. It was the bin laden who started it and it was the america who ended. America created a monster in 80's and it was them who ended his life. It was mistake of bin laden to wage war against america while they didn't do anything to them. America made mistake going into iraq.

Human = not perfect

We are blessed too much to have such priceless treasure (gurbani) which guide us not to become animals. I am not saying all other non-sikhs are animals but what i am trying is that we all are acting like one. We have straight forward guidelines directly prescribed by our 10 gurus to lead a truthful life. Don't argue nor justify any of the drama going around us. Live your life, keep sehaj in our life, be a role model in your home, keep 5 evils in check. Just thought of throwing my 2 cent into this topic..

[Singh559]

Human = not perfect

We are blessed too much to have such priceless treasure (gurbani) which guide us not to become animals. I am not saying all other non-sikhs are animals but what i am trying is that we all are acting like one. We have straight forward guidelines directly prescribed by our 10 gurus to lead a truthful life. Don't argue nor justify any of the drama going around us. Live your life, keep sehaj in our life, be a role model in your home, keep 5 evils in check. Just thought of throwing my 2 cent into this topic..

True that...

[VanHelsingh]

Human = not perfect

We are blessed too much to have such priceless treasure (gurbani) which guide us not to become animals. I am not saying all other non-sikhs are animals but what i am trying is that we all are acting like one. We have straight forward guidelines directly prescribed by our 10 gurus to lead a truthful life. Don't argue nor justify any of the drama going around us. Live your life, keep sehaj in our life, be a role model in your home, keep 5 evils in check. Just thought of throwing my 2 cent into this topic..

I must say that ^^^ is spot-on advice.

Things are too far gone in this world for us (as individuals) to influence any change. So whilst the world burns, obviously have some compassion for your fellow man and try to help when and where you can, but ultimately analyse yourself and let the gift we Sikhs have been given guide you in these difficult times.

The older I get and the crazier the world gets, the more I look towards Sikhi and realise "You're my only hope". This may sound corny but sangat if you knew me personally, you'd appreciate I don't make this statement lightly.

[dalsingh101]

Don't argue nor justify any of the drama going around us. Live your life, keep sehaj in our life, be a role model in your home, keep 5 evils in check.

I might be reading it wrong but it almost appears as if you are suggesting plain ignoring what is going on around us on the global political platform? How long can someone do that before the effects of this come bursting into your life in one way or another?

Although what you say regarding keeping ourselves in check is spot on, this doesn't make us immune to the effects of external events.

I think it is absolutely essential that Sikhs form a narrative of events along their own worldview and interests. Sure, we don't have ANY weight in terms of global politics right now, but maybe in good time we can change that? Surely we should be corporately aiming for that, even if in the long distance?

I can guarantee if we fail to form and push a Sikh narrative of all this, apnay will naturally jump on other people's narratives. We see this now, should we not learn from it?