Horses Used By The Sikhs

[Singh559]

True white horses are rare, that's a dapple grey mare or neela as we say. Thanks for posting the pics. I was at Sur Singh in December and have some photos of the new main stallion. Never trust owners when it comes to height and prices.Some measure to tops of head etc instead of withers. 68inch horses are rare, also they all tell you these super prices. Top price currently was 22lakh for Naag in Punjab. The white horses someone wants to know about are Nukra. The biggest stallion currently in Punjab is probably Budha Dal puratan bloodline Karamati who is 65"+ to withers. I have some photos that I will post.

You're welcome, any chance you could share a few pics as well from Sur Singh? Would be nice to see .

Is the topre breed still around (would love to see this amazing horse or get any information on it) and do you know if and when export will open? Yeah, I agree with you on the owners exaggerating up horse stats and prices.

edit- Are there any pictures of Karamati?

[zoltansingh]

Bro, I will post some pictures on Monday.

I doubt the Topre exists now. Would be interesting to collate all the historical accounts of thePunjabi horses into some form of publication.

One guy I saw had a stallion he claimed was 66" to others he said 70". From what I saw he was more around the 62" mark.

[Singh559]

Bro, I will post some pictures on Monday.

I doubt the Topre exists now. Would be interesting to collate all the historical accounts of thePunjabi horses into some form of publication.

One guy I saw had a stallion he claimed was 66" to others he said 70". From what I saw he was more around the 62" mark.

It would be, we do have the advantage of the internet/networking. Now a days it's possible for enthusiasts like us to take on such a task. Perhaps compiling such a thorough book/publication of all historical accounts can aid Sikh breeders to recreate such breeds in the near future.

Will be looking forward to some pics

Is there any way to download this topic, would be a shame of it got deleted on accident. Some gold posts on here.

[zoltansingh]

I guess you could print it to a PDF file.

Yes lots of good info on this topic. Lets keep it rolling and get as many references as we can.

[Singh559]

I guess you could print it to a PDF file.

Yes lots of good info on this topic. Lets keep it rolling and get as many references as we can.

On the bottom where the facebook, twitter, google+ buttons are look to the far right of those buttons. A green arrow pointing down at a hard drive which says Download when you hover your mouse over it. Just saw it, you can download the entire topic.

[chatanga]

I was reading "gurmat shabd-kosh" (i think) by Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, and under horses, he has entered a hukamnama from Bhai Daya Singh (again I think) that says " A Sikh must have knowledge of weapons and horses".

So it is our religious duty as well to learn this stuff, also an elderly NIhang i was talking to from , HarianBela, told me, that the great war will be fought in the way of old, ie horseback, with swords, and bows and arrows. etc.

That's amazing, can you share the book's name please?

I will find it out. give me a couple of days.

[zoltansingh]

Chatanga, please can you scan that hukumnama and post here as well as the other quote you mentioned.

Thanks.

[West London Singh]

This is indeed a great thread and, reading back, I (just as we all are) am greatly indebted to the likes of Zoltan Singh for teaching us so much.

I would, however, like to know 2 things from our learned brothers here. Firstly, given the fact that Sri Gobind Singh ji himself rode a horse of the Amnol breed why are we sikhs who aspire to live in his image congratulating ourselves for having and breeding inferior breeds ?

Secondly, I'd like to hear the thoughts of you learned individuals about the effects British policy had on the subject of 'sikhs and their horses'. I ask that question because when the British started Sikh settlements in what we know as the 'canal colonies' we sikhs always remember with great pride the Lyalpur colonials but never give a moments thoughts to the Sikhs of the lower bari doab colony. (if any sikhs here don;t know what this is : this is, roughly, the rural area around Jehlum in Pakistan). This colony was quite unique amongst sikhs because here, the British gave 100's of acres to Sikhs for the sole purpose to breed horses for the cavalry.

I mention it because muslims know the situation so well as they remember how the issue of sikh breeders of horses was such an issue of contention that laws were passed that banned it in 1940. We sikhs ourselves, in harmony with our reputation as simpletons, know nothing. I use not the term 'simpleton' lightly here. The fact is that people in places such as Kabul, Uzbekistan, Tashkent know the city of Amritsar as the one of the main centres of trading (including horse trading) along the old silk route. They know us. But what do we know about ourselves ?

[chatanga]

I was reading "gurmat shabd-kosh" (i think) by Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, and under horses, he has entered a hukamnama from Bhai Daya Singh (again I think) that says " A Sikh must have knowledge of weapons and horses".

Sorry, it was Gurmat Martand I found it in. it is in the Gurdwara, so i will go later and get it.

I will find it out. give me a couple of days.

We sikhs ourselves, in harmony with our reputation as simpletons, know nothing. I use not the term 'simpleton' lightly here.

Lol. Simpletons? Us?

RE the post : Good info, wls, where are you getting this info from, i have many books on 47 era panjab, but you are providing sterling info.

[West London Singh]

RE the post : Good info, wls, where are you getting this info from, i have many books on 47 era panjab, but you are providing sterling info.

You're right Chatanga. I really am quite brilliant. One person even once called me a genius. Admittedly though, that person was my 3 year old son and I told him to say it. I don't have the sources to hand chatanga. Its just one of those pieces of information that are stored in the back of your mind for years....there for you to draw on if and when needed. Shouldn't be too hard to find on the internet though. Basically, we're talking about the Shahpur district colony. What happened was, after the British allocated so much land to Sikhs in Lyallpur and Montgomery for agricultural purposes the feeling was that the next 'colony' on the list should be given exclusively to those who served in the military and for the exclusive use of horse-breeding. Thus.....given the exclusive military allocation we know that the majority of land was given to Sikhs. I'm not sure but I think something in the region of 200,000 acres was put aside for the sole use of horse breeding. i.e the colony sikhs there were given the land on the condition that they did nothing other than breed horses. Thus they wern't as rich or as politically powerfull as the Lyallpur or Montgomery Sikhs because they didn't make as much money. The horses were bred for the sole purpose of serving the British army.

If, however, anyone still doubted how the Sikhs are inextricably linked with their horses, then read the following. Honestly, its one of the most fascinating and entertaining things I've read. Its the story of how the Khalsa Kingdom of Punjab went to war with Afghanistan....over a horse !!!

http://www.lrgaf.org/military/lahore-war.htm