Sikh Channel & Dudley Protest

[GoliMaro 4]

All you jokers who think that Sikh Channel gave footage to the Police need serious help - these rumours started yesterday before the youth show and are complete rubbish. Ask respectable people like Mohan Singh, Randhir Singh, etc if these bs rumours are true.

Please stop wasting energy on fighting between each other when you have zero evidence. Panthic have also lost the plot - they hate every single top parcharak like Gyani Takhur Singh, Baba Hari Singh Randavavale, etc

Take a step out the bubble and think what's actually happening; we're all starting to point the finger at each other before the biggest remembrance demonstration by diverting ourselves from the real issues (playing into the real enemies hands).

WJKK, WJKF.

Just for everyones info the little birdy mentioned previously has gone back to the source who has said that a sikh channel staff member told them but will not mention any names. Suppose it is utter BULL TATTI and Sikh Channel haven't given up the tapes to the PO PO. Just think about this then and who the real jokers are,

If you broadcast something on tv you need to retain a copy of it just in case any formal public complaint to OFCOM is made, ask the weird and wonderful staff at Sikh channel this. Now they put that video up, so now the bacon rashers are probably aware of that recording also due to snitches like some of the people on this forum who don't like what happened, if not Avtar Seon himself. Plus they monitor these kind of forums too.

So if they approach the channel with a court order for the tape the SC muppets have to hand it over as someone already mentioned, hardly think Avtar or Bal would decline especially after the comment and thoughts that Sikh Channel representatives have expressed in word and over the net (see the panthic article and the comment posted up on their facebook thingy)

At the end of the day doesn't matter if they have given it before or will do in the future, the damage has already been done in the eyes of the wider community by them showing that tape completely out of context.

Plus nobody is fighting here, fight night was already aired on saturday on the Peoples Channel sky 840, did you miss it, :tongue2:? This is just verbal jostling!

The march will not stop either because of this whole mess of Sikh channel airing a segment of the video. It will still happen, people will just walk away from their cameras knowing that if something happens later on in the day for a small proportion of the actual day and Sikh Channel air the video trying to do the whole 'worlds first exclusive' thing again, they may become famous through police charges and a mugshot in the local papers, :biggrin2:

[Southall Youth 1]

The tapes can always go missing by mistake or recoded over - we can put it down to a 'desi mistake' they can't prove nothing- even if they are reading this now - without proof nothing lol

[punjab5 18]

When the media is invited or attends, it is up to the Organisers of the demonstration to speak to the media and decide what is filmed and what is not. The organisers could have easily stopped the crew from filming, as can be seen on a number of occasions in the mainstream media, where camers are blocked. The organiser should have spoken or briefed the media and then followed up. So although the media is to blame, by not showing any responsibility, so are the organisers. Lets hope that the Satkar campaign learn from this incident and move forward.

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

When the media is invited or attends, it is up to the Organisers of the demonstration to speak to the media and decide what is filmed and what is not. The organisers could have easily stopped the crew from filming, as can be seen on a number of occasions in the mainstream media, where camers are blocked. The organiser should have spoken or briefed the media and then followed up. So although the media is to blame, by not showing any responsibility, so are the organisers. Lets hope that the Satkar campaign learn from this incident and move forward.

I think the Satkaar campaign were allowing filming to occur because they wanted to show everyone their peaceful protest in full flow. The videos of young and old alike doing Jaap together would've been a powerful image of resistance and protest without the need for violence. They weren't to know something was going to kick off in the way it did. Maybe that's naivety on their part, but personally I never expected the occupants of the cultural centre to goad the sangat with plates of meat and bhangra songs, etc. That isn't excusing those who broke away from the protest and took matters into their own hands, but everybody has their own levels of tolerance.

[GoliMaro 4]

The tapes can always go missing by mistake or recoded over - we can put it down to a 'desi mistake' they can't prove nothing- even if they are reading this now - without proof nothing lol

:laugh2:

Very true.

There is still time for Sikh Channel to fix up and do some damage limitation in our own community regardless of whether they have given up the tapes or not. Maybe run a piece on the whole thing showing the other side of the protest also with people on the panel that can talk about the issues mentioned here also.

[zoltansingh 83]

Looks like lots of bad press over this thanks to a few who took things into their own hands, their actions have overshadowed the larger peaceful protest. Despite the protocol issued to ensure a peaceful protest some people went against this (despite the goading by the party idiots, people should have kept their kewl), they have done Sikhs in the UK no favours.

Maybe next time Panj Singh can issue the protocol and then if anyone wants to flout this they will be just like those flouting the Akal Takht sandesh.

[singhjoe 2]

The guys who acted violently have done the panth a great disservice and undone alot of the hard work that goes into making the satkar campaign credable and legit, and bridging the gap between amritdhari and sehajdhari Sikhs and with the wider community including the indiginous white population and also completely wrecks the relationship with the police. They are completely selfish and happy to persue their demands at whatever cost and with no regard to the consquences or damage that they do to either themselves or the wider community. They are highly irresponsible.

As a note. During the Jaito morchas against the British and Singh Sabha reform protests, Sikhs took a pledge of non-violence and stuck to it despite extreme provocation from the British, which resulted in beatings, shootings and death, however, they did not flinch and did not behave violently. It is a shame that our protests have become highjacked by irresponsible nutters who want to cause trouble and have no self control.

[punjab5 18]

The guys who acted violently have done the panth a great disservice and undone alot of the hard work that goes into making the satkar campaign credable and legit, and bridging the gap between amritdhari and sehajdhari Sikhs and with the wider community including the indiginous white population and also completely wrecks the relationship with the police. They are completely selfish and happy to persue their demands at whatever cost and with no regard to the consquences or damage that they do to either themselves or the wider community. They are highly irresponsible.

As a note. During the Jaito morchas against the British and Singh Sabha reform protests, Sikhs took a pledge of non-violence and stuck to it despite extreme provocation from the British, which resulted in beatings, shootings and death, however, they did not flinch and did not behave violently. It is a shame that our protests have become highjacked by irresponsible nutters who want to cause trouble and have no self control.

Do you really think that you would have received this result from a peacefull demonstration, come on. What could have happened is that no violence would have occured and we would then look at a protest every week, until a resolution, could we have kept this up is the question.

I agree the violence was not good and should not have happened, but ultimatley the committee are responsible for this. Those injured need to ask, why were they, the committee, defiant.

[AnakinSkywalker 31]

So let me get this straight....a group of Sikhs go to Dudley to protest that premises owned by the local Gurdwara were being used to stage celebratory parties where non-religious music was being played and alcohol and meat were being consumed by the party-goers.  

For the vast majority of the protest it was peaceful and admirable, (6 hours worth of it as some people have stated).  The Sikhs protesting believed that the Hall was the property of Guru ji and therefore such property should not be used to hold such parties, (as per sandesh by the Akal Takhat).

 

THEN you get a few of these ‘Sikh’ protesters who force their way into the Hall (Guru ji’s property) and they start to trash it and smash Guru ji’s windows....they don’t do seva in there...by cleaning the place up...by removing the alcohol etc...oh no...they decide to throw pots of meat and other foods all over the floor and smash a few windows in.

Now IF this is the case, IF the CCTV shows this to be the case, THEN I hope the police/courts throw the book at them.

Not only have they done beadbi of Guru ji's property by falling into  Kroodh and stupidity, not only have they ruined the 6 hours worth of peaceful protest effort, but they've done the bearsty of the Sikh community by making out the Sikhs to be a bunch of thugs in the national papers.

And what makes this even more laughably tragic is that the tw**  who hosts the Sikh Youth Discussion show on the Sikh Channel has said the Panth will pay for ANY charges that the police put upon these vandals.

Yeah you heard me right...Guru ji's Panth will pay the charges for those who vandalised Guru ji's property!!

What a plonker!!

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

I think some Sikhs are finding it difficult to reconcile the Saint-Soldier aspect of Gursikhi. When do you chill out and leave it all to God? When do you rise and fight for the truth even at the cost of personal safety and reputation?

I think this is one of the reasons the "rioting" Sikhs took matters into their hands. Some might say they allowed their base emotions to get the better of them. On the other hand, some might say they did what a true Sikh should always do and fight for what is right.

[darknight 22]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3607664/Militant-Sikh-mob-wreck-Sikh-Cultural-Centre-in-Dudley-in-booze-row.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392108/Militant-Sikhs-trash-OWN-community-centre-bid-ban-sale-meat-alcohol-private-party.html

i'm a celebrity please get me in here ;-)........

[AnakinSkywalker 31]

I think some Sikhs are finding it difficult to reconcile the Saint-Soldier aspect of Gursikhi. When do you chill out and leave it all to God? When do you rise and fight for the truth even at the cost of personal safety and reputation?

I think this is one of the reasons the "rioting" Sikhs took matters into their hands. Some might say they allowed their base emotions to get the better of them. On the other hand, some might say they did what a true Sikh should always do and fight for what is right.

Where does trashing Guru Ji's property come into the Saint-Soldier aspect of Gursikhi?

[punjab5 18]

And what makes this even more laughably tragic is that the tw** who hosts the Sikh Youth Discussion show on the Sikh Channel has said the Panth will pay for ANY charges that the police put upon these vandals.

Yeah you heard me right...Guru ji's Panth will pay the charges for those who vandalised Guru ji's property!!

What a plonker!!

Know that was stupid, openly supporting those that broke the Law and on TV !!!!!

[singhjoe 2]

Do you really think that you would have received this result from a peacefull demonstration, come on. What could have happened is that no violence would have occured and we would then look at a protest every week, until a resolution, could we have kept this up is the question.

I agree the violence was not good and should not have happened, but ultimatley the committee are responsible for this. Those injured need to ask, why were they, the committee, defiant.

The commitee are idiots. We know that. That is obvious. But you are playing a very dangerous game by justifying violence. You may have the immediate satisfaction of victory but the damage done goes far beyond this incident. Look at the round up of the press, all bad press. Look at the wedge created between sehajdhari and amritdhari Sikhs. Look at the image of Sikhs in the media being compared to Taliban/muslim extremists, look at how the British public view us. How does this help our campaign to allow Sikhs to freely wear the kirpan, if we are viewed as violent thugs? You guys are making no friends by acting violently. It would be ok if you didnt care about the consequences of your actions because you thought that you were standing up for righteous ness, however, unfortunately, your actions (or the people you are defending) have a major impact on the whole community.

Not to mention that there are rumours that the committee now wants press charges against the culprits and go against their written promises, and are refusing to engage in any kind of meeting or mediation with any Sikh body.

Its not looking good at all.

[singhjoe 2]

I think some Sikhs are finding it difficult to reconcile the Saint-Soldier aspect of Gursikhi. When do you chill out and leave it all to God? When do you rise and fight for the truth even at the cost of personal safety and reputation?

I think this is one of the reasons the "rioting" Sikhs took matters into their hands. Some might say they allowed their base emotions to get the better of them. On the other hand, some might say they did what a true Sikh should always do and fight for what is right.

there are no place for emotions in this kind of campaign. If you cant control yourself, then you should just stay at home and stay out of trouble. This is a tactical and strategic campaign that must be played a certain way. Loose cannons, trouble makers, or overly emotional zealots should not be welcome at this kind of rally because all they do is ruin it. Some ruin it because they are just idiots and have the warped view that it is the right thing to do, and others ruin it because they cant control themselves, and others just dont think before they act. It doesnt really matter what their motive for engaging in violence, the fact is that they ruin it in the end.

This is a long haul, campaign for satkaar, that must be achieved through education, lobbying, protesting, and mediation. It requires patience and a high level of discipline in the face of sometimes extreme provocation and frustration. If you cant hack it, then I suggest you stay away (not you personally).