Cannot Find Any Historical Infomation On Dumdumitaksal?

[socialidiot 0]

Vaheguru JiKa Khalsa Vaheguru JiKi Fateh

I really need sangats help with my study. I have been researching the historic sikh organizations mainly comprising of the Nihungs, Nirmalas and Dum Dumi Taksal. I have managed to find tons of documents, scripts, images from historical granths and the three main sikh scriptures regarding the Nihungs. I have managed to find some information on the Nirmalas but i cannot find a single historical reference to Dum Dumi Taksal.

I have literally looked far and wide for historical infomation about the taksal and cannot find anything at all. Also another thing that has come to light is infomation about Baba Deep Singh Shaheed. All historical references regarding Baba Deep Singh describe he was a Nihung leader of tarna dal particularly misl shaheeda and never mention a taksal. I managed to find the oldest image of Baba Deep Singh and he is dressed like a Nihung.

So i am now a little confused when did Dum Dumi taksal start? and why isnt there any references in historical granths or scriptures.

Granths & sources i have researched:

Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Dasam Granth Sahib Ji

Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji

Ratankar Mahan Kosh

Pracheen Panth Parkash

Naveen Panth Parkash

Suraj Parkash Granth

Gurbilaas Pathsahi 10

British accounts of Sikhs

Anglo Sikh wars

British Library

and so on...list is long....

Baba Deep Singh image:

Please any help at all would really help.

[Jaggaa 98]

Probably because you're spelling it wrong. Damdami Taksal is the correct spelling.

[Matheen 87]

Something tells me you haven't read any of the granths you listed.

Many of them narrate the Katha of Gurbani that took place at Damdama Sahib, by Guru Gobind Singh Ji on their way to Hazoor Sahib. The Katha took 9months, 9days. Baba Deep Singh Ji was amongst the Sangat and asked Guru Ji for some sewa. Guru Ji told him that his time to fight will come, but to teach Santhiya, Gurbani veechar, parchaar etc in the meantime and to prepare Saroops of Adi Granth Sahib. Bhai Mani Singh Ji was also given this duty. From there, the 2 branches of Damdama wali Taksal began.

The Damdami Taksal is not a Samparda as such, but a school or jatha. Nihang Dals have been receiving Santhiya from Taksals since they began, and continue to do so. There's a video on Youtube, shot at Baba Bakala, where this relationship is explained during an event at a Dal. In fact, most puratan Sampardas used to, and still do, receive Santhiya from one of the Taksals - either by sending SInghs there, or from the Singhs that travel from one place to another.

Even Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa, a mahaan Mahapursh, used to be a Nihang Singh before they joined the Damdami Taksal.

There is a huge amount of prem/ love between the puratan Samapardas - especially in Punjab - amongst Singhs who know we are all sons/daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The tree of Sikhi has many branches and all should be respected for the duties given by Guru Ji.

It is sad to see kids in the West use the names of beautiful Sikh institutions to boost their egos and create tribal wars that do nothing except feed the haumai Guru Ji tells us to wage war against.

Also, 'socialidiot', please don't use multiple usernames. Thanks.

[socialidiot 0]

To matheen

I don't appreciate your negative reply, I only asked for help. I apologise if I offended you, but don't assume I am a trouble maker. Can I ask you to only comment on an intellectual level if not don't comment at all. All I am asking for is references to DamDami taksal in sikh history and not from modern Sikhs. For example the naamdhari Sikhs claim that the 10 guru returned and passed on the guruship to another living guru, modern Sikhs could claim a number of things but it doesn't make them fact! And it doesnt fill my heart with much confidence if there is no substantial evidence within our own history.

[Matheen 87]

To matheen

I don't appreciate your negative reply, I only asked for help. I apologise if I offended you, but don't assume I am a trouble maker....

Read what I wrote carefully - the origins of the Taksals within Sikhi are mentioned in the sources you say you've studied. There is detailed katha on the origins of Taksal by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, available from gurmatveechar.com.

What's the reason for multiple user names?

[AnakinSkywalker 31]

Read what I wrote carefully - the origins of the Taksals within Sikhi are mentioned in the sources you say you've studied.

You are wrong, the Taksal is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Dasam Granth, or Sarbloh Granth.

[Matheen 87]

You are wrong, the Taksal is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Dasam Granth, or Sarbloh Granth.

I meant some of them, obviously not all of them. Should have been more clear.

[Singh559 2,670]

I meant some of them, obviously not all of them. Should have been more clear.

Where is the Damdami Taksal mentioned veerji, can you please cite a source if possible.

[MS1NGH 35]

DDT have done a very good job of spreading Santia in the UK a lot of it via the effort of a handful of Gursikhs, but they limit the exposure of this gem to those that will join their gang..

vjkk vjkf

i completely disagree with this statement. Idont know about other cities, but in coventry there is ddt santhiya classes every sunday at gnp gurdwara, EVERYBODY is welcome and regularly around 30/40 students attend. The class is a mixture of children, adults, amrtidhari and non amritdhari including mona's. People from different jathebandiya attend also. There is no pressure from anybody to follow ddt maryada or even any mention of it!

fateh

[jassa 158]

And what is the purpose of this thread other than trying to prove that DDT does not have any evidence for its historical lineage but the Nihangs do? This has been going on for the last 5 years and what has it achieved?

When all of the sampardya start to practice what they were set up for then we will have a chardikala panth. I disagree with the platform that the new DDT Youth try to place themselves on along with the Nihangs in the West who are more about the 'outwardly appearance' than the the true Nihang mat.

There is not need for anyone to prove their jathebandi is superior to another since the actions of the Singhs within that jathebandi uphold or dis-honor the history of that jathebandi.

DDT have done a very good job of spreading Santia in the UK a lot of it via the effort of a handful of Gursikhs, but they limit the exposure of this gem to those that will join their gang. No offense but to date I have not seen the Nihangs in the UK offer anything other than 'saheedi Degh' making techniques and other than the Nang Nidaar there are not many gatka classes led by Nihangs or santiya classes of Dasam or Sarblog Granths.

So rather than create friction just sort your own Jevaans out and the glory of your jathebandi will follow.

I appreciate 'socialidiot' that you would state that you are only doing research. If that is the case you will not find your answers on this site. Go and talk to Giani Pritam Singh or other Singhs from DDT who can answer your questions. You are not going to find the individuals with the answers you are looking for on this site.

Bhai sahib ji .... was there any need of abusing nihangs out of no where ??? just read the whole thread again was it really needed ??? instead of abusing nihangs why dont you give some links to the thread starter where he can read itehas ...

[Amanpreet.Singh 1]

WJKK WJKF

May be not sure, Damdami Taksal was started as a school but later became an important Samparda and became to be known as Damdami Taksal. As it started from Damdama Sahib.

Obviously, this name Damdami Taksal came after some time it was started.

Also,

Have you read

Bhai Sahib Chandraka- Kavi Megh Singh ( History of DDT)

HarBhagat Prem Prakash- Sant Baba Sham Singh Amritsar vale (1803-1926)

Sri Gurmukh Prakash- Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawale

[chatanga 1,058]

DDT was originally known as Gian Samprda, and there are references to this in some older texts. Guru Ji started this jatha, as a school, but he never gave it a name. The name just came as the jatha evolved and grew. This is nothing unusual. Many jathas or sikh groups grew this way. DDT is not a samprda in the strictest sense, it is a school.

[SunSingh 289]

you'll find it here:

http://www.sikhaware...h=1

http://www.sikhaware...20history&st=15

here is one of the posts by Kam1825 that sheds light on the issue, one post among many...

If you read the Sri Gurmukh Parkash which is the life story written by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji in the form of kavita is the life story of Sant Sundar Singh ji. In this Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji do state that SAnt Sundar Singh Ji learned from a couple of sants including Sant Gulab Singh Ji but later went to SAnt Bishan Singh Ji Murale Walae, this can also be found in the book about sant prem singh ji murale Wale. The question i pose is why would sant gurbachan singh ji make this up in such a big granth and state such things in their katha if they were not true?

Personally i think listening to the source is better then listening to others who are second hand sources.

According to Niddar Singh and many others they believe this lineage was made up by Sant Kartar Singh Ji but if you listen to the katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji it is from them and if one is to speak to Sant Mohan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae they also state their lineage is from Baba Deep Singh Ji. I only know that now as i spoke to them in december. Dera Sato Gali and Sevapanthi Ashram also state this is the lineage of Taksal.

Niddar Singh has only given a biased view based on his own hatred of taksal. Believe me i provided the acticles on the bedis and all the books on the taksal to him. However he did not want to hear and use the good views and articles on taksal at all and was not bothered about the words of sant gurbachan singh ji and thier words on taksal. He even put on the stie that Baba Gurbachan SIngh Ji never mentioned taksal which are quotes from Amrit Jeevan,

"Our Bhindranwalla Jatha has no claim to the leadership of Dam Dami Taksal. Such a claim was not made ever by Sant Bishan Singh Ji, nor Sant Sundar Singh Ji, nor ever by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa. The leadership [of Dam Dami Taksal] was not given first to anyone, nor is there any leader [of Dam Dami Taksal] now." This can be disproven straight away from the words of Sant Gurbachan SIngh Ji in the Guru Granth Sahib Katha.

The referances to Sant Sundar Singh Ji studying from Sant Bishan Singh Ji can be found in Adhiya Solva page 146 of the Gurmukh Parkash. Before that it states sant sundar singh ji gained vidiya from Sant Gulab Singh and Pandit Ishar Singh both nirmalas along with Sant Bishan Singh who they remained with there after. The rest of the Granth continues for some time going through the times of Baba BIshan Singh Ji giving sermons and teachings to Sant Sundar Singh Ji

Again why compose such a bug piece of work if it is all lies!

Page 7 and 8 goes through the sampardas of both taksals written by Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji with all of the names of the gianis in the lineage written together.

This granth has forewards by the following people, Giani Kirpal SIngh Ji of Shahid Bagh, Giani Achar SIngh Ji of Akal Takhat, Sardar Mangal Singh president of Khalsa Divan, Sant Kirpal Singh Ji Sato Gali, Giani Waryam Singh Ji Door Kot, Sri Maan Mahant Nischal Singh Ji Sewapanthi, Giani Maha Singh, Giani Partap Singh Ji, Sant Ran Singh Ji Dera Baba Kharak Singh ji and Sri Mati Bibi Nirmal Kaur Ji. Were these people all part of the conspiracy including the great mahants/sants mentioned.

Another thing SAnt Gurbachan Singh Ji produced the first lineage of taksal in the format now seen in all taksal steeks in this granth.

Now before you start saying this was all done by Sant Kartar Singh Ji you should all know that this granth was release by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji in 1960. 9 years before Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji passed to sachkhand and 9 years before the taksal split between Sant Kartar Singh and Sant Mohan Singh.

All i would say is first of all listen to the words of Sant Gurbachan Singh before you accept the faults of them through the words of others such as Dr Sher Singh.