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Jkd, Wing Chun Or Eagle Claw?


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Bhai Sahib, you are still not able to seperate between sport and combat. Vale Tudo and Pride etc were sports events with the incentive of fame and money. What business would someone who has learnt the art of death have there? The so called 'Kung Fu' practitioners who participated in these events were nothing of the sort, there were no reknowned or recognised traditional Masters at these events, just sports martial artists.

It seems pretty clear that you have little to no experience on the street i.e. multiples and knives. Getting someone in an armbar or going to the ground (committing to one person) is going to get you killed, as is trying to fight a weapon from a distance using strikes only (Muay Thai). These are not improved versions of the Father arts, they are diluted versions, the Father arts cannot be used in the ring. You cannot kill someone or break their spine, or burst their eyes, or attack nerves, maim, break bones, tear muscle, permanently disable people in the ring.

If you actually bother to study MMA/UFC you will see that all the combat elements have been removed i.e. Gracies originally used to manipulate finger to snapping point when being overpowered or lifted by bigger opponents.

None of the arts you mention are weapons arts, kindly stop deluding yourself and others.

I am going to throw you one tiny bit of 'light' on the McDojo and Media world of MA that you are living in.

http://www.mafangfa.org.uk/

Bak Mei is little known and devastating closed door Southern Chinese external boxing system. There is only one high level practitioner that I know of in the UK, but he teaches out of choice and only one to one. There are 2-3 very quiet and selective schools 'commercial' in the UK, I have provided a link to one. Both this chap, and there a few others I know of, have been there and done that in MMA, Thai Boxing, Boxing, Wresling. They devote their life to practicing and teaching (selectively) the art of death. Bak Mei is hated amongst most Chinese Martial arts schools, because it has an infamous history, it was known as the Shaolin Killer (read up on the history). In fact I should be able to put you in touch with a 'real' Bak Mei teacher near Yuba City (who has competed successfully in all you mention and even teaches people who enter MMA compeitions - that side of his life is however only a business). Feel free to PM me, I will provide details. Better to get 1st hand experience than learn from biased MMA blogs/forums.

This is only one amongst a plethora of little known 'martial' arts in the real combat world.

Again I have no problem with Krav, I have a Krav student, it is a good basic set of effective principles (its not an art), good for quick learning environments like the Police.

The other arts you mention also have their place - they provide many great (but selective) fighting skills, but they are sport orientated and taught. If you want to know about combat arts, reasearch Bokator, it's a whole different world. These are the arts which were used in the battlefield.

God bless.

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Bhai Sahib, you are still not able to seperate between sport and combat. Vale Tudo and Pride etc were sports events with the incentive of fame and money. What business would someone who has learnt the art of death have there? The so called 'Kung Fu' practitioners who participated in these events were nothing of the sort, there were no reknowned or recognised traditional Masters at these events, just sports martial artists.

It seems pretty clear that you have little to no experience on the street i.e. multiples and knives. Getting someone in an armbar or going to the ground (committing to one person) is going to get you killed, as is trying to fight a weapon from a distance using strikes only (Muay Thai). These are not improved versions of the Father arts, they are diluted versions, the Father arts cannot be used in the ring. You cannot kill someone or break their spine, or burst their eyes, or attack nerves, maim, break bones, tear muscle, permanently disable people in the ring.

If you actually bother to study MMA/UFC you will see that all the combat elements have been removed i.e. Gracies originally used to manipulate finger to snapping point when being overpowered or lifted by bigger opponents.

None of the arts you mention are weapons arts, kindly stop deluding yourself and others.

I am going to throw you one tiny bit of 'light' on the McDojo and Media world of MA that you are living in.

http://www.mafangfa.org.uk/

Bak Mei is little known and devastating closed door Southern Chinese external boxing system. There is only one high level practitioner that I know of in the UK, but he teaches out of choice and only one to one. There are 2-3 very quiet and selective schools 'commercial' in the UK, I have provided a link to one. Both this chap, and there a few others I know of, have been there and done that in MMA, Thai Boxing, Boxing, Wresling. They devote their life to practicing and teaching (selectively) the art of death. Bak Mei is hated amongst most Chinese Martial arts schools, because it has an infamous history, it was known as the Shaolin Killer (read up on the history). In fact I should be able to put you in touch with a 'real' Bak Mei teacher near Yuba City (who has competed successfully in all you mention and even teaches people who enter MMA compeitions - that side of his life is however only a business). Feel free to PM me, I will provide details. Better to get 1st hand experience than learn from biased MMA blogs/forums.

This is only one amongst a plethora of little known 'martial' arts in the real combat world.

Again I have no problem with Krav, I have a Krav student, it is a good basic set of effective principles (its not an art), good for quick learning environments like the Police.

The other arts you mention also have their place - they provide many great (but selective) fighting skills, but they are sport orientated and taught. If you want to know about combat arts, reasearch Bokator, it's a whole different world. These are the arts which were used in the battlefield.

God bless.

i clearly have alot of experience when it comes to street and your from uk were their is no real violent crime, secondly the guys who competed in the ufc's and pride's and vele tudo tournments were the best of the best from kung fu and other traditional martial arts and they got beat up by boxers muay thai fighters and wrestlers and ji jitsu artist

evidence that you don't know anything about fighting is that you believe anything anyone tells you when it comes to traditional martial arts being effective, most the traditional martial arts will get you killed in a street fight

for street i also say muay thai and boxing is best for stand up on street, for ground ji jitsu and wrestling and i never said this is effective for street fighting

no one has proved these traditional martial arts are as deadly as the claim and when they had their chance they got their butts kicked in the first ufc's and pride's

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Achha Bhai Sahib, you are intent on repeating yourself without even bothering to read the detailed posts I have written for you. Lol, London is hardly safe, it probably has one of the largest concentrations of organised gangs in Europe, not to mention one of Europes worst knife crime statistics. In case you blinked, you may have also missed the Riots last month.

That aside, I doubt your side of town sees anywhere near as much violence as the Philippines does - where the experienced/relevant teachers are based. The difference over there is, people don't learn to just enter refereed competitions, they learn for daily survival on the streets - where knives are common as muck.

All being said, you keep talking about street fighting and what works, without giving any thought to knives, weapons, multiples. Your side of town must have extremely chivalrous/socially responsible gangsters :-). I know of western boxing styles which are made for the street, they are very different from ring boxing, they target soft areas on the body and use locks.

Anyway, good luck to you and your training. I hope you will one day actually do some some research on traditional martial arts and see who the Masters actually are. Your single comment about early UFC etc being entered by the best of Kung Fu, is the single most ignorant and ridiculous comment I have ever heard in the traditional 'martial' arts field! How can someone who trains to kill use those skills honestly in a competition! There is such a thing as muscle memory, whatever you drill into your training (intentions) is the way your body reacts in the said situations.

I shouldn't really bother, but I will give you another rope to grasp (I've aleady provided you a link to a world renowned martial artist who has judged World Muay Thai competitions and competed in a number of sports martial arts fields - who now only teaches Bak Mei) - if you really want to see what traditional martial arts have to offer, visit Zhong Luo's Dragon House in San Francisco (your side of the world, the few hundred mile car ride will be well worth it). Zhong Luo is a Bak Mei Master, and has done San Shou (Chinese Kickboxing), Mongolian Wrestling, to name a few. He is no stranger cage fighting world, and also trains pro MMA fighters and organises his own cage fighting competitions. Feel free to have this conversation and touch hands with him, and ask him the relevance of Bak Mei to the street and in comparison other martial arts (i.e. the mainstream ones that you are promoting).

http://dragonhousemma.com/sifo-luo/

http://www.kungfumag...php?article=131

Here is his e-mail address: whitedragonfightingmaster@gmail.com

My leaving comment to you is stop confusing sport and combat. Mainstream Muay Thai and Boxers wear protection on their hands - their art is trained for the ring (although yes, it can prove highly effective on the street if weapons are not involved), and don't get in to fights outside of the ring for a very good reason. If, like you say you had seen experience on the street, you would know that punching someone in the head in same style you do in the ring, gets your fingers broken. This is where the underground Chinese boxing styles differ massively. They teach to use a variety of fists (for different applications) - in the correct way (requires much conditioning), teaching how to generate massive energy with little effort (body mechanics), and to destroy (not stop) your opponent. So that you can instantly move on to his friends.

Thanks for the conversation though, you have unwittingly got a few Singhs seriously interested in learning about blade based and traditional martial arts who have decided to contact me. :-)

Dhanvaad Jeeo - Akaal Purkh tu-haanu bibek budhi bakshe.

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Achha Bhai Sahib, you are intent on repeating yourself without even bothering to read the detailed posts I have written for you. Lol, London is hardly safe, it probably has one of the largest concentrations of organised gangs in Europe, not to mention one of Europes worst knife crime statistics. In case you blinked, you may have also missed the Riots last month....

im just telling you the truth, cause most of what you say isn't true

END OF DEBATE RIGHT HERE, WE HAVE HAD TOURNMENTS WERE THE BEST FROM EVERY MARTIAL ARTS SHOWED UP TO COMPETE IN NO RULES COMBAT

EVERY TIME BOXING MUAY THAI WRESTLING JI JITSU FIGHTERS BEAT THE DAY LIGHTS OUT OF THE BEST KUNG FU FIGHTERS IN THE WORKD AND BAK MEI IS KUNG FU AND THE BEST KARATE FIGHTERS THE BEST NINJA FIGHTERS, REASON THE GRACIES LEFT THE UFC WAS WHEN THEY ADDED RULES, AS WELL THE GRACIES WOULD ONLY FIGHT THE BEST AND THE UFC ONLY INVITED THE BEST AND MOST DANGEROUS

THIS IS WERE YOU LACK COMMON SENCE IF THESE TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS WERE AS EFFECTIVE AS YOU CLAIM THEN THE ISREALI COMMANDOS AND AMERICAN SPECIAL FORCES WOULD TRAIN IN THEM RATHER THEN BOXING AND MUAY THAI, FOR STREET FIGHTING KRAV MEGA IS THE MOST DANGEROUS CONSIDERING THE FACT ITS USED BY THE BEST SPECIAL FORCES IN THE WORLD EVERYDAY ISRAEL

AND EVERY KID WHO LEARNS TO FIGHT FROM THE GHETTO AMERICAN GHETTOS LEARN BOXING, AND THESE GUYS COME FROM DANGEROUS NEIBOURHOODS TAHT WOULD MAKE YOU WET YOUR PANTS IF YOU STEPPED IN ONE OF THEM

AND DAN HARDY TRAINED IN CHINA IN SOME OF THE MOST ANCIENT AND TOP KNOWN KUNG FU TEMPLES THAT ARE THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD AND GUESS WHAT HE DOESN'T USE IT OR TRAIN IN IT, THE ONLY THING HE GOT OUT OF TRAINING THEIR WAS CHARACTER

BUT STAY AWAY FROM STREET FIGHTING CAUSE YOU WOULD GET KNOCKED THE BLEEP OUT

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mma is combat and it destroyed all these traditional martial arts

dude their is no evidence that these traditional martial arts are the best cause theirs to much evidence of mma fighters kicking the day lights out of them

dude these websites and emails don't prove nothing all it proves is you lost the debate cause you got no evidence to back up your claims cause your claims were proven wrong ufc pride vale tudo

and if some of these guys came to my gym they would piss their pants cause most boxing gyms are filled with guys from crazy neibourhoods

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  • 2 weeks later...

would like to add many of today's ufc fighters like gsp come from traditional martial arts and they all say the same thing it doesn't work that well on the streets compared to boxing muay thai ji jitsu wrestling

and i can't find anywere that it says that sports like muay thai came out of other martial arts watered down for sports so please provide evidence for this cause i call it a lie, all i can find is how all these martial arts evolved out of traditional martial arts by leaving the garbage behind and taking moves that worked and inovating them and making them better hence why the best traditional martial artists got destroyed in no rules against mma

and its one of the stupidest things to say cause who would want to learn and create a watered down martial art when everyone wants to learn the best

another punjabi fighter who trained with some top kung fu fighters in china was kultar gill who has openly also said waste of time compared to mma muay thai boxing wrestling ji jitsu

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  • 2 weeks later...

As someone who loves martial arts i would like to share my opinion. A lot so far has been said about what school is good or which teacher is better than the other, but nobody has stated the importance of your own dedication and practice. No particular school of martial arts is better its all about how much you practice and evolve as a fighter/athlete.

As far as Sikhism goes i believe Satguru's form of martial arts is the best call it Gatka, Chatka Gatka or Shastarvidiya. If you are a Sikh then Gatka should be the first form of martial you should be mastering. If you look at the history of all martial forms the history of Sikh self defence and shastarvidiya shines brighter than all others. Now this begs the question who should you learn shastar vidya from. Niddar Singh is one of the best gatka teachers but so if Teji Singh (Baba Fateh Singh Akhara) and Harjinder Singh (Baba Deep Singh Akhara) and others are equally as good.

I learnt a bit from Niddar myself, he will teach but he will also tell you his beautiful sanatan sikhi and some of his students get high on drugs, now you tell me how can a guy so stoned that he cant stand up fight. Niddar will also preach his confused and divide and rule interpretations of Sikhism and history. His website sarabloh is evidence of this where he further confuses sikhism's basic doctrines. Niddar has publicly apologised about the contents of his Hazur Sahib book. Some have sad he is a man of bad character. Niddar Singh openly advocates the use of alcohol and meat of any type as well as the disregard of woman. The sangat needs to be careful that in the attempt of acquiring shasatr vidiya from this man, he or she doesn't completely lose faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Personally i am very impressed with Ustad Harjinder Singh of Baba Deep Singh Akhara andMaster Hari Singh. Both are good places to start, Niddar Singh is good, everyone does things there own way and its upto the student to decide what he wants to take home with him.

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