GORAE doing guru sahibs beadbi (UK)

[KharkooSingh]

R4G Singhs... Can I ask?

1) Do you accept that special provisions need to be made for these saroops that have been stolen by the brits such as correct temperature, avoidance of light (i.e. to maintain colour), restoration of colours where and when required/necessary? Security i.e would be worth quite alot on the open black market to a private collector i.e. how all Guroo Sahibs small arms are being smuggeled out of Hazoor Sahib for the right price.

2) Assuming you accept that given the Saroops condition that they require special provisions such as the above what provisions or attempt at making provisions has the Sikh community or indivudals in the UK put in place to meet these?

Assuming that such provisions are accepted (I dont see how anyone can deny it) and assuming that there is no special provisions (never heard of any Singhs with a properly cooled dark room) its my opinion that given the very fragile nature of the Saroops; given how good Sikhs are at preserving anything historic down to the whitewashing of all the puratan Gurdwara Sahibs because they are too thick and corrupt to preserve origional artwork. That the Saroops should stay in the wrongful hands of the brits simply because they can look after them a hell of alot better than we can... at the expense of the correct Maryada being followed. Shame we cant do both.

I'd rather the Saroops be around forever in 1 piece with decent public access with no Maryada rather than with Singhs who have no knowledge or plan for preservation on this scale, no plan for access, no plan for restoration, and the Saroops eventually end up in tatters in a relativley short amount of time in comparison

"KhalsaSingh", you give yourself a powerfull username but your esteem of Khalsa Singhs’ seems to be very low!!

Let's have some confidence in ourselves. We are not kids anymore and with Maharaj's kripa many of us are earning salaries, own properties, have our own private businesses. The Sikh Kaum can fund this; I mean we can fund party halls, extensions to our Gurdwara buildings, multi-million pound Guru Ghars, kar sewa. Between half a million Sikhs in the UK I am sure we can raise the funds to provide the necessary environment to look after these specific Saroops. Why are we worried when we have Guru Ji’s Kripa on us?

The British Library does not have a monopoly on the knowledge of looking after old Saroops. We can learn what is necessary to create the special climatic environment. The rest is about prem. Do we really think the BL are holding onto the Saroops in order to preserve Gurbani? Do they even know what GurBani is? Have they listened to any Shabads or been influenced by GurBani in anyway? The truth is the BL are treating Guru Granth Sahib Ji like any other ancient manuscript they possess.

Read below how the British Library purchased the 17th Centuary Saroop, so note the Saroop was not handed over to them for any kind of future preservation by our Sikh forefathers.

http://www.ochs.org.uk/publications/press_...kh_relic_02.htm

"The British Library manuscript was purchased by the British Museum in 1884 from the Revd. A. Fisher, the principal of the Church Missionary Society School in Amritsar in the early 1880s. It was most likely written during the period 1660-75, with some later additions to reflect the expansion of the scriptural text at the end of the seventeenth century. The final two-thirds of the manuscript appear to have been damaged subsequently and was rewritten on new folios during the nineteenth century".

[TavPrasad Singh]

R4G Singhs... Can I ask?

1) Do you accept that special provisions need to be made for these saroops that have been stolen by the brits such as correct temperature, avoidance of light (i.e. to maintain colour), restoration of colours where and when required/necessary? Security i.e would be worth quite alot on the open black market to a private collector i.e. how all Guroo Sahibs small arms are being smuggeled out of Hazoor Sahib for the right price.

2) Assuming you accept that given the Saroops condition that they require special provisions such as the above what provisions or attempt at making provisions has the Sikh community or indivudals in the UK put in place to meet these?

Assuming that such provisions are accepted (I dont see how anyone can deny it) and assuming that there is no special provisions (never heard of any Singhs with a properly cooled dark room) its my opinion that given the very fragile nature of the Saroops; given how good Sikhs are at preserving anything historic down to the whitewashing of all the puratan Gurdwara Sahibs because they are too thick and corrupt to preserve origional artwork. That the Saroops should stay in the wrongful hands of the brits simply because they can look after them a hell of alot better than we can... at the expense of the correct Maryada being followed. Shame we cant do both.

I'd rather the Saroops be around forever in 1 piece with decent public access with no Maryada rather than with Singhs who have no knowledge or plan for preservation on this scale, no plan for access, no plan for restoration, and the Saroops eventually end up in tatters in a relativley short amount of time in comparison

God save the Queen!!! Because Sikhs are totally useless.

You reflect the standard Punjabi attitude of put people down before anything even happens. Where's your chardi kala!

Dont forgrt the British Library has 17 saroops. Only a few of them are puratan. We should see all saroops the same. Sikhs must take responsiblity of all saroops. Not all saroops are under climate control.

So a white man can look after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji alot better than a Sikh. If that means looking after a book then I am sure your right, but looking after Jaagdi Jot Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a Sikh's Duty.

[singh_1983]

sikh maryada tells us how to look after Guru Granth Sahib Saroops

if the basics (full ramallae, manji, palki, bed...etc) arent done first then whats the point of all this climate control, dark room crap,

minumum respect - the sikh way is the first priority

[KhalsaSingh]

God save the Queen!!! Because Sikhs are totally useless.

You reflect the standard Punjabi attitude of put people down before anything even happens. Where's your chardi kala!

Dont forgrt the British Library has 17 saroops. Only a few of them are puratan. We should see all saroops the same. Sikhs must take responsiblity of all saroops. Not all saroops are under climate control.

So a white man can look after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji alot better than a Sikh. If that means looking after a book then I am sure your right, but looking after Jaagdi Jot Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a Sikh's Duty.

In no way did I deny that it was Sikhs duty to look after Maharaj's saroop, this goes without saying, I agree with all the above. It would have just been nice if either yourself or KharkooSingh actually addressed the 2 points I made.

KharkooSingh tried, despite your both making the typical internet warrior personal comments which I guess was just a cheap way of avoiding the point.

So would it not make sense to invest in that infastructure and have that in place before we campaign to get back the Saroops the brits have??? Wouldn't that ultimately make a case, a challange, point on contention the least bit valid to the every day person outside of the Sikh community?

Maybe either of you will try answer the first post and this 3rd point this time.

And as for my chardikaala, I know its fustrating dealing with an attitude that you percieve to be counter productive but its been my observation that such personal unnecessary comments are from the least chardikaala people who talk about panthic issues yet know little gurbani nor hardly ever get up at A/V let alone know about the persons sharda who they are calling. Challo, guess I did something to diserve it.

[TavPrasad Singh]

God save the Queen!!! Because Sikhs are totally useless.

You reflect the standard Punjabi attitude of put people down before anything even happens. Where's your chardi kala!

Dont forgrt the British Library has 17 saroops. Only a few of them are puratan. We should see all saroops the same. Sikhs must take responsiblity of all saroops. Not all saroops are under climate control.

So a white man can look after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji alot better than a Sikh. If that means looking after a book then I am sure your right, but looking after Jaagdi Jot Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a Sikh's Duty.

In no way did I deny that it was Sikhs duty to look after Maharaj's saroop, this goes without saying, I agree with all the above. It would have just been nice if either yourself or KharkooSingh actually addressed the 2 points I made.

KharkooSingh tried, despite your both making the typical internet warrior personal comments which I guess was just a cheap way of avoiding the point.

So would it not make sense to invest in that infastructure and have that in place before we campaign to get back the Saroops the brits have??? Wouldn't that ultimately make a case, a challange, point on contention the least bit valid to the every day person outside of the Sikh community?

Maybe either of you will try answer the first post and this 3rd point this time.

And as for my chardikaala, I know its fustrating dealing with an attitude that you percieve to be counter productive but its been my observation that such personal unnecessary comments are from the least chardikaala people who talk about panthic issues yet know little gurbani nor hardly ever get up at A/V let alone know about the persons sharda who they are calling. Challo, guess I did something to diserve it.

Create awareness is the first thing to do. Without the Sikh community feeling that the saroops in British Library are their responsibility nothing will happen. Of course I agree with your points above preservation no denying the fact that the correct environment is required ie room temp. Lets not forget that the Library with all its controls and preservation still is not the correct place for Guruji's saroops.

Singh thats what you need to do aswell. Do you feel responsible for the saroops at BL? The issue brings people together and then things start to happen. Your posts feel as if you want to chuck a spanner in the works before awareness has been created. With Maharaj Kirpa we can do anything!

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

and What about the bir that Guru Gobind Singh had composed by memory???? Is Rag mala within that bir??? Mundavani means??????????????{closing seal}Its like a book saying "the end" and then they live happily ever after even though you say that "before" the end. Mundavani=the end. Tera keeta jato......... How can something be sealed and then opened back up with a fake raag mala

If Rag mala doesnt correspond with the raags in SGGS then why would it be there??????????????????????

Seriously tell me how raag mala fits within SGGS? Raag mala is a map and it doesnt describe anything to do with the rest of SGGS.

Why doesnt anyone sing raag mala in kirtan?????????

If people can see the problems with raag mala and just completely accept mala as a real authentic raag then they accept a mohamedeans work that wasnt approved by the Guru himself then that is a blasphemous act and we fight to keep it within SGGS and it doesnt even fit.

Fact: Every single composition within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj has the title of the raag along with who composed the shabad except raag mala

Then there is the contreversy of pad-ched birs etc.........is that a gurmat practice????????

SO Rag mala doesnt fit at all but we will consider something that makes no sence and that doesnt correspond to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Dhur-Ki-Bani ???

I dont insult Guru ever I am insulted that most Sikhs consider an unauthorized mohamedeans work as bani because it was snuck in after Guru Gobind Singhs bir.

Ban me do what you want I dont care I would die saying that raag mala isnt Gurbani. If nobody else will stand up then I will and if I fall then I was supposed to fall from Wahegurus hukam. Sikhs nowdays dont stand up for the right things, we fight amongst eachother when the things uninspiring the Sikhs in general are right in front of our face.

I Love Guru and if someone tried to sneak another "raag" in I would be against it too.

How and in what way does raag mala fit within Guru? Any of our authority will just say dont talk about it. They dont actually solve the problem because they are a problem themselves. Taksal isnt going to fight for it unless they are backed properly to do so, or they will look like rebels. A rebel will fight for the right reasons if needed. Baba Jarnail Singh Ji was a rebel and a rebel for the correct reason from wahegurus hukam.

There is no NAAM within raag mala {period}

Ban me if you want, delete my posts I know why people dont fully respect GuruJi because raag mala is a spiritual detourant. Once the actual truth is revealed then there will be zero arguement about it. The Sikh authority should seriously research this topic and fix the problem between the Panth so some dont have to keep quite or others dont have to say to be quite. Its a serious issue, this is no joking matter.

Ban me but Im not scared about one forums mods mad about a real issue. I will do an Ardas to have a serious investigation to either prove me wrong or prove correct. {I dont want to have my opinion about this subject I want the truth from authority}

Bless-ed Love

SatNaam

Wahgeuru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh !!!!!!!!!

[00gurpreet_singh00]

pritam singh, it is obvious that you only know one side of the story, you should try learning the other side as well before posting lies on the internet

[Guest Papi]

pritam singh, it is obvious that you only know one side of the story, you should try learning the other side as well before posting lies on the internet

umm what other side?? :wub: ohhhh u mean the pro raag mala bani side. :wub:: yaaa lets hear that too then :TH:

[Pyara]

God save the Queen!!! Because Sikhs are totally useless.

You reflect the standard Punjabi attitude of put people down before anything even happens. Where's your chardi kala!

Dont forgrt the British Library has 17 saroops. Only a few of them are puratan. We should see all saroops the same. Sikhs must take responsiblity of all saroops. Not all saroops are under climate control.

So a white man can look after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji alot better than a Sikh. If that means looking after a book then I am sure your right, but looking after Jaagdi Jot Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a Sikh's Duty.

In no way did I deny that it was Sikhs duty to look after Maharaj's saroop, this goes without saying, I agree with all the above. It would have just been nice if either yourself or KharkooSingh actually addressed the 2 points I made.

KharkooSingh tried, despite your both making the typical internet warrior personal comments which I guess was just a cheap way of avoiding the point.

So would it not make sense to invest in that infastructure and have that in place before we campaign to get back the Saroops the brits have??? Wouldn't that ultimately make a case, a challange, point on contention the least bit valid to the every day person outside of the Sikh community?

Maybe either of you will try answer the first post and this 3rd point this time.

And as for my chardikaala, I know its fustrating dealing with an attitude that you percieve to be counter productive but its been my observation that such personal unnecessary comments are from the least chardikaala people who talk about panthic issues yet know little gurbani nor hardly ever get up at A/V let alone know about the persons sharda who they are calling. Challo, guess I did something to diserve it.

I got an idea. Lets not do anything because the task is too big...we are not capbable of investing in this infrastructure as we are a backward community. Thank God for the progressive Brits, without whom the Sikh religion would have been wiped out!!! The Brits can look after Guru Granth Sahib Ji better than us because they have air conditioning.

NB. KhalsaSingh, I am being a sarcy git!

[SSM]

I am wondering whether KhalsaSingh would rather be frozen and preserved or live?

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have Sukhasan for a reason.