Call To Sangat: Have You Been Effected By These People?

[SachHiSach]

The official approach is in progress sangat jio, we have had a good response as a result of this thread...

We will share one example of how horrified we were to learn of a gursikh who were so terrified by their experiences with this couple that they locked themselves in a room for three weeks, even only taking food that was left outside their door....

Sangat jio this is mental abuse and torture all done in the name of sikhi...

so sangat Ji, if you have Facebook, please link to this topic....there may be some you know or don't know that has been affected, this a opportunity for them to know they are not alone.... the general consensus that has become very apparent is people are ashamed and embarrassed to admit something like this could happen to them...that's why were are trying to help,

guptsevasach@gmail.com

[m4ndy]

This seems a little to strange...

Firstly: if people are being affected by this ABUSE then why hasnt the police been involved? (Abuse can cover physical and mental)

Secondly: if this couple are really dangerous and intimidating why are they not exposed? For example where they live, what they look like? You say investigation is being carried out but by whom?

Thirdly: It seems a bit odd that 2 people from the midlands will go around telling people stuff where is the exact meeting place of this couple? Are they renting a house out? Are they publishing leaflets to get people in? What are there marketing techniques and what do they charge for such nonsense?

If these people are falling on the vulnerable then the sangat have a right to know exactly who they are why is there privacy protected?

[Sewadar]

As in past we strictly enforce rules protecting person's privacy regardless of who they are. Also due to laws of our land, we won't allow any private information to be exposed on our forums without any firm evidence (ex: guilty announced by court of law or someone admitted their mistakes etc). Please do not post any names, address, phone numbers, photos, videos or anything revealing identity of anyone in this thread. SikhSangat provides platform to all and please use such platform with sense of responsibility.

Original poster asked our permission to open this thread and we allow them to post and continue this thread as long as it protects privacy of all and so far we are happy with that. Our official standpoint is 100% neutral; we don't take sides.

[NamoSarab]

Good call by Admin.

I don't get it though - these people claim there has been some physical and psychological abuse of people... but if so, why are individuals taking this into their own hands? We pay taxes, we employee the police to handle such matters. They should be the ones "collecting evidence" and so forth. If there's such a grave concern here, the authorities should be involved.

This just looks like a personal issue here that someone(s) are trying to turn into some big panthic deal. Do yourselves a favour, get the police onto it and have them convicted or cautioned IF they are guilty. People will automatically stay away from them if that's what should happen, when the stories come out in the papers and so forth. Write to Watchdog!

Anyone tarnishing Sikhi for their own gain should be exposed, but given a chance to tell their side of the story as well by neutral parties, such as the police. If there is concrete (and I mean CONCRETE) proof that the couple are guilty of such allegations, then yes something should definitely be done about them. By the sounds of it, you have the proof and testimonials of people so why not take it to the authorities?

Sorry if this offends anyone.

[Sikhistan]

Not aware of the above situation and my reply is not about this thread but a general reply regarding victims. I don't think it is easy for victims to come forward in public to admit that they fell for the trap ~ far is to involve police into it. Even in western society, victims ~especially female~ hesitate to come forward to lodge complaint with police. Social programs by government try to encourage victims [abuse victims/domestic violence] to come forward and provide them all type of help but even after that they still hesitate to come forward. It is easy to tell them to come forward but actually it is very hard for them to do that as they are mentally hurt and involves many temporally physiological problems.

Sikhi is very clear on such things and truth should never be suppressed. Those victims who wants to come forward [again not related to just this thread], only come forward when you are ready. If sangat helps you then you are in good hands but still do not expect 'someone' else will take care of you forever and trust vaheguroo.

[NamoSarab]

I agree with the above but just because it is hard to do so, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do to just shy away. This is why we have many problems in Sikhi, that people are too afraid to stand up and speak the truth BUT this is wrong - justice should be served and the right way too. Sangat will not look down on those who have been wronged (the victims), they will blame those that are guilty (the criminals).

As wrong as it may sound, if victims don't come forward and do the right thing, then really they haven't got a leg to stand on, no matter how difficult it is for them. You have to come forward to let justice be served. Until this has been addressed properly in the correct manner, those that are "airing the dirty laundry" in public are guilty of slander.

Courts do issue ASBO's (Anti Social Behaviour Orders) to individuals who are being a nuisance. At least get an ASBO against them if they harming others, and then come out in public and expose them!

[SachHiSach]

For those people who are asking why police are not involved.....well what will the police do wen you tell them there is a Bibi claiming to be mai bhago, her husband Saee Miaa Mir, that she uses her 'spiritual powers' by seeing through her dasam duaar, that there are spirits haunting you, your house, etc etc (please see example on 1st post of this thread).....

yes the is the mental manipulation, many people have been affected and the general consensus is that they just want to forget about it, and we are not in a position to force the families involved to peruse a cousre of action that they are not happy nor willing to take mainly due the added emotional stress and embarrassment this will cause.....and we must respect that...and thank them for their courage in standing up against these people

Yes there are legal aspects to this case that will definatly involved the police at some point, the point here is that we have tried to avoid all such avenues if the couple admit their wrongdoings of anti-gurmat practises and asks for maafi from the Sikh panth. 

They have been given many opportunities to do this but have refused. Hence we are in existence trying find as many people as possible and give them a voice.

Does the gursikh who locked themselves in a room for three weeks not deserve to have their story listened to? Or the gursikh that still has panic attacks after their experience with this couple? And the countless others affected by them? who will give them justice? two gursikhs from different countries, no link with each other are reduced to this state....

We have also been contacted by sangat in Europe who have been affected by these people so again a big thanks to Sikh sangat for letting us use this platform, it defiantly reaches a wide audience.

NamoSarab, put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been told they are possessed, or that a friend that died 4 yrs ago is now been re-born as your son....ALL IN THE NAME OF SIKHI....there are so many families who's children are terrified to talk to sangat since their experiences, one gursikh still has panic attacks and to get them to speak to us took several weeks because of not just the trauma, but embarrassment, and feeling they had more knowledge of sikhi to have been able to question or had strengh to counter attck this couple when put into cetain situations....so we have people who feel worthless as Sikhs and feel they have let their guru down by allowing themselves to be involved with these people and believing their claims of being mai bhago and then doings things she told them to do....

The majority of victims here were new to sikhi or quite isolated in terms of exposure to sangat. Some were also prem, sharda Sikhs who would welcome any gursikh into their lives with open arms, the best way to describe this is that feeling when you first take Amrit, you believe everyone is your friend and trustworthy. Well we have a very clear picture from the families we spoke to that they took advantage of all these situations. 

THIS IS A PANTHIC SITUATION because this couple wear guruji's bana and are involved in parchaar.....if people like this continue to go unchecked or un challenged, this brings shame on Guruji's dastaar and bana and people will loose faith it and loose faith in the true gursikhs who also wear guruji's bana....

If this was a personal attack why are so many people, people from other countries, different parts of the UK coming forward with the same story, and this has been going on before this thread or Sikh sangat being involved and the admin on this board will verify that as we have been in touch with them from the early stages of this investigation....

With wahegurus kirpa, once the final steps are put into place with this investigation and this couple still refuse to admit their wrongdoings and anti-gurmat practises....the necessary action will be taken by all panthic bodies in the UK that are involved.

Please bear with us as we are trying to go by all the appropriate channels to ensure this couple, even after everything that has been done, are still given a chance to admit their mistakes and apologise to the panth...we are aware the couple are monitoring this thread and are more than welcome to comment and provide their side of the story if they should wish to....

[Only five]

Sachhisach, you mention that some Sikhs who have been affected by this one couple are embarassed to come out and tell what happened to them. As you have said that is completely understandable. One way i think more people will come out with their story is by having a committee of 5 Chardikala Singhs set up where they don't disclose the person's name to anyone (unless the person feels comfortable disclosing it for your investigation reasons). The Sikhs affected by the couple could come and speak to the Singhs in person or communicate in some other way. This would give the person more comfort that their name would not be disclosed and they can seek help for what they are going through. The investigation you are doing is important as it will stop this couple from hurting more Sikhs, but those affected should be the main focus for your sevadar team in my opinion.

[VanHelsingh]

What does this say about those people who seek out these two individuals? As Gursikhs why have the victims of this couple put themselves in that situation in the first place? Why do they need to be counselled by "Baba Deep Singh" and "Mai Bhago"?

We wonder why Sikhs are in such a mess.

[West London Singh]

We will share one example of how horrified we were to learn of a gursikh who were so terrified by their experiences with this couple that they locked themselves in a room for three weeks, even only taking food that was left outside their door....

Blimey :omg: Thats actually quite embarrasing. Trust me...........if other people (such as muslims and Hindus) read that they're not gonna think "oh my god that couple must be really evil". What they're actually gonna do is laugh their heads off at how patheticaly weak the once mighty fearless gursikhs are.

So seriously......you say the man is a gursikh. But surely one of the very definitions of a gursikh is that he is one without fear ?