Call To Sangat: Have You Been Effected By These People?

[Hazoor 30]

Not everyone is strong or even reasonably strong in their Sikhi and therein lies the crux of this 'debate'. There are people who are born into religious families and therefore have always known the basics and more. There are those who have some exposure and know the basics and there's those who may know very little. There are also those who have taken the time to delve into Sikhi and thus have built strong foundations, but again a newcomer or someone with little exposure wouldnt have this foundation.

If people from the last two categories start to delve into Sikhi and happen to meet with this couple in question and are 'lead up the garden path', whose fault is it? The 'victim' for not knowing more about Sikhi even though they may just have started learning? Yes, there are plenty like you who won't fall for their tricks, but there are just as many who may not be as knowlegdable in Sikhi as you, I personally don't think it's fair to label that newcomer/less knowledgeable person as gullable and stupid.

On the flip side I agree there may be seasoned sikhs who have been caught up in all this, but again without knowing their circumstances it's hard and unfair to pass comment on them.

Different people are at different places in their Sikhi, and if a convincing person, who not only looks the part but seems to do everything in line with gurmat on the surface comes your way, how do you really know what's going on under the surface until you're exposed to it.

I have come across the couple a number of times many years ago at Gurmat camps and workshops for young Sikhs, going by their appearance and contribution at those events, they came across as a young chardikala couple. It is now many years later that I have come to know about their 'other' activities and I wonder how many people may have become easily involved with them due to their presence at camps and other Sikh youth events (I say MAY have become involved as I don't know what's actually going on).

I cannot comment on the actual couple as I've not had any personal experiences with them.

As daft as it may seem, or as silly or gullible some people may come across as, isn't it our duty to have some daya for these people who have been messed around in the name of Sikhi, and if there is evidence against those who have been accused then to do something about it. We jump up and down when a kathakar comes along who is accused of leading people astray etc, is this really any different?

[gurbar 2]

Honestly...ive seen what effect this couple have had on my friend and my friend is not a gullible gursikh! they managae to screw with sane peoples heads from what ive seen. No one can say 'this would never happen to me' as we all have to remain in hukam and where guru mahraj keep us all.

As someone has said above, no one says 'hmmm today I fancy going to a fake couple who can brainwash me and tell me some exciting stuff that no one else can!'

The only wrong ones here are those that are telling people they are Mata Bhag Kaur and Mian Mir and so fourth...and those opposing this are assuming that the victims ever believed this crap.....if these gursikhs had believed it, they wouldnt be fighting against it.

Most likely..this couple do not come out with their 'mata Bhag Kaur and Mian Meer' talk until a long time after showing fake love to their victims...and when they think they have got them on side...start telling them all these lies, which is when the victims probably back off. And from my friends experience, this is one thing the female in the couple does not like as no one can possibly tell her shes lying or that shes wrong! Gursikhs arent gullible as some are making out on this thread...the victims are probably just good natured people who do not see bad in others and just try to practice what guru nanak dev ji has taught about the path of love....the wrong ones are those that abuse this trust and love and are bad naming the sacrifices made by those in our rich history

MY POINT HERE IS: its easy to say the victims are weak and not Gursikhs that Guru Gobind Singh ji taught us all to be, but if anything...its the fake bana wearing and HUGE dastar tying liars, that are hiding behind a cover and are not the kind that Guru Gobind Singh ji made us!

[m4ndy 46]

I totally agree with West London Singh, you have the same thinking as me! :D

Its not rocket science to work out when someone is telling you somthing impossible no matter what level of sikhism your at... its like someone saying they got magical powers and that they can cure any illness...

Why turn to humans for guidence on anything sikhi related? Obviously the main issue is money and power for these people and if sikhs were strong they wouldnt even listen to them... People like that target the weak because they know they are not strong enough so they hit the weak spots. You cannot be affected by anything if you have the knowledge...

Looks can be decieving anyone can dress up for show doesnt make them a religious person old saying by mothers never speak to strangers... you only get led into traps if your lacking in knowledge and concepts of your own religion just goes to show what extream measures some people will go to...

[saggu 0]

I don't know who this couple is, but what if they're victims of victims? What if they've been told that for so long that they now truly believe it? Could be a form of brainwashing or a branch of MK Ultra programming.

[gurbar 2]

They're far from victims-if she believes she is mata bhag kaur..she aint no victim, but a clever fake who is just trying to make money off others. it happens when u get so used to sitting at home and not working because work is 'boring'! What happened to Guru Nanak Dev jis teaching of 'kirat di kamaee'? They are totally anti-sikh in what they are doing and the bottomline is guru ji is watching and we all have to pay for the pain we cause others...which is worse when you are distracting people off the path of sikhi by being so fake and full of lies...yet this couple themselves have said at a camp talk that the worst thing you can do is hurt someones feelings...this couple are hurting many peoples feelings as well as bad naming sikhi. I cant see guru ji being too happy about it all!

[Only five 1,144]

But how can it possibly happen to people like me...i.e Sikhs. We Sikhs know that people such as Mai Bhago achieved union with god on death. What possible reason could we possibly have for doubting the great ones and assume they were refused union by god and sent on the endles life cycle again ?

Shaheed Singh and Kaurs are present in this world. They give darshan to Gursikhs.

So...I state once again....this type of thing can never happen to strong or even reasonably strong Sikhs. This can only happen to extremely weak minded Sikhs.

Devta and devis are laughing at your right now because you call yourself a Sikh, but have not even learned what a Sikh is. Devta and Devis are begging for mukhti, but aleast they understand now how to get mukhti. YOu on the other hand have no clue. Arrogance is your first name.

I seem to have been brought up with a different sort of Sikhism to many here. My parents tought me from a young age how advanced and scientificaly perfect Sikhi is compared to other faiths. I was brought up to believe that Sikhi doesn't believe in the mumbo jumbo superstitious nonsense of other faiths. I have to say I'm astounded by some of the things I'm reading here. Its like I'm communicating with a gang of superstitious mumbo jumbo believing hindus.

One man full of arrogance says God exist and worships himself. Another man full of arrogance says God does not exist and worships himself. There is no difference between the two. Both don't have the slighest idea of what God is.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet 106]

This whole thing highlights to me just how silly some sikhs have become. You can't blame that couple for this. They're just parasites feeding on the stupidity of many stupid sikhs. There will always be charlatans. There will always be bullies. Their will always be cheaters and tricksters. But they are not the stupid ones. The stupid ones are the ones stupid enough to fall for the tricks.

You say I won't know how it feels until I personally experience it. Well....you're right. And I won't personally go through it because I'm not stupid enough or gullible enough to put myself in such a pathetic position.

Look.....We are Sikhs. We have Guru Granth Sahib ji to answer all our questions and guide us through life. Thats the whole point of being a Sikh. We have no ned for rituals....we have no need for toothsayers, clairvoyants and superstition. Thats the very reason our forefathers walked away from the religion that has superstition, toothsayers and rituals. It is truly ironic how...now...300 years later, the members of that old religion our forefathers left have stopped believing in mumbo jumbo whereas we are going backwards and believing in more mumbo jumbo than them....partaking in more rituals than them...etc ?

Believe me.....most people will be just like me in that they will read this thread and be amazed. Amazed not at the activities of that couiple but amazed and surprised at how gullible, weak bodied and weak minded many sikhs have become.

This thread may have started as an attempt to expose the tricksters but all its really achieved is highlighted how weak in the mind many people with the appearance of gursikhs are.

Great post. With the knowledge and application of gurbani, not just the ritual reading of it, we become gurbani- and such rituals and superstitions mean nothing for we are beyond them- When we Truly Accept God of No Image or Form as Truth- we are beyond all of the Bullshite.

He remains the lowest of the low, hence, accepting Truth 100% and living in his glory means living beyond all of the egotistical rituals and maya principles the world lives by...

Only once begins to lower their head completely and live in the most humble Truth of Nothingness(for we are and God is Nothing- no image, no form, no Nothing)- does one begin to live in acceptance of Hukam(True Love).

[PAL 07 210]

I would like to say that all of us need to learn from this and realise that we are living in kaljug and need to improve our gursikhi jeevan before kaljug takes us down and out. Kaljug has already finished a lot of the panth off including Jatherdar's of the Panth like Professor Darshan Singh to name but a few.

Remember kaljug is your enemy, when he went to the jungles to attack Baba Nand Singh Mahapurkh he said what is this Sukhmani Sahib that you are making everyone repeat. Baba Ji said oh it is good that you have told me how to get rid of you, every since that day Baba Ji kept maryada of 24/7 Sukhmani Sahib Akhand Jaap.

[SachHiSach 12]

Wjkk wjkf

first of all a big thanks to all the sangat for supporting this issue and raising awareness to the kind of manmat being carried out by those who are supposed to be setting an example wearing guru jis bana and big damalaa's...

The matter resolving this couple will be brought before 5singhs and the couple have been banned from carrying out any activities involving parchaar/camps/Sikh societies in an attempt to keep young vunerables Sikhs away from them...

We encourage all camp/youth leaders and presidents of Sikh societies to remain vigilant in the guests they invite to events and do strict background checks before inviting anyone to be a speaker to advocate The Sikh faith. please do get in touch via our email address if you require advice and guidance in this matter.

The elders involved in bring awareness were disgusted that the matter had gotten so far with so many people being affected and encouraged us to promote awareness in having faith and sharda in Guru Granth Sahib Ji maharaj and not to sucked in by such pakhandis

We wanted to make sangat aware that this matter is in the process of being escalated and addressed and soon enough we will be able to expose the identity of these fraudsters......

We would like to primarily thank Waheguru Ji for blessing us with sikhi and His help in the fight against fraudsters and nindaks of Sikhi which existed even in the Guru's time.

May waheguru Ji bless this couple with the sohjee to admit their wrong doings and put them back on the right path.

[_singhni_ 142]

Just as a idea it might be wise to Facebook this situation (if not done so already) because there might still be sangat out there who are not aware of this couple. As they do look very "chalidkala" when you see them in sangat & as if they wouldn't hurt a fly.

Please keep sangat up to date with this situation.

[Akaalkaur84 19]

Vjkk Vjkf!

These people are just mayadharis chasing money in any way they can be it scam, con, borrow n deny..all in the name and saroop of Sikhi!

So much to that the couple I know..the 'apparent mata bhago' had a dream that she'd win the lottery so was chasing lottery tickets to win her millions yet gambling isn't part of sikhi. When her so called powers failed n she hadn't won the lottery (big big lol) she said she ran around the estate and found out that someone else had won it! Get a job and work like everyone else! Life's not a doddle so these people need to get that thru their heads. U call urself a chardi kala Gursikh who's dasam duar is open yet all u do Is chase money n pleasure..

Fact is its all lies n fake and now she's probably running around like a headless chicken trying to falsely prove her innocence..fact is if u tell people you are mata bhag Kaur ji..u can't deny it four years down the line as ur being questioned.

How many doors can u knock on to save urself when u have turned ur back on ur guru by so many lies? They do say the giddhar has to run from door to door when in danger and that's probably exactly what's happening right now to this fake lady....Which all the more shows the world how guilty u are.

One who has nothing to hide wudnt be running knocking on people's doors for help as guruji is by their side!

Its just a shame such people have so much ego that they keep running rather than accept their mistakes..well no one can run forever..

Fact is,such people end up with nothing n no one by their side when everyone sees the truth.

[Akaalkaur84 19]

A true Gursikh never has to chase maya as maya chases the Gursikh..and this lady thinks she is mata bhago yet all she does is dream About money..but finds work to be boring..wants to feed off others..guruji will do justice to all!

[_singhni_ 142]

They will get what they deserve God is watching so even if they try to hide they can't hide forever. Only matter of time. Vaheguru

[gurbar 2]

I have a few questions for the people who are doing all this, who im sure are reading this forum day and night as they know the truth has been revealed. I hope you know this isnt about liking or disliking anyone, or holding grudges...or any of that...just about the truth...so why do you have to keep on denying the truth? what are you gettng out of this? Do you get a thrill from messing with peoples minds? is it entertaining to brainwash someone and watch the show? (I know you dont work, so if you have too much time on your hands and want to fill it to entertain yourselves, then why not go out there and get a job?) Can you please give us some answers? Did you think that you could pretend to be the shaheed souls from our ithaas forever? Were you planning on living this lie forever, without being stopped by the panth? Did you think no one would ever stand up to you?...answer is YES...to all those questions! but no surprises..u will continue to deny the truth!FACT-people have now stood upto you, and you are running around in circles trying to protect your lies...lol! You know the world is watching you and laughing at you!

There are many topics on this forum that are being discussed, but this one is of the beadbi of the panth, beadbi of the mahan shaheeds of our ithaas and a disgrace to Sikhi..and it needs to stop!

FACT-its hit a panthic level now which you never thought it would as you thought you had all angles covered, but forgot the biggest FACT-VAHEGURU is above all...including YOU! All you have done is lie to cover up the truth and not realised that your one lie to cover one truth has led to lie after lie after lie and you are just digging a deeper hole for yourselves. Sikhi teaches nimarta and forgiveness for your mistakes, but this couple are so arrogant and full of themselves that they are running around in their (hard earned..NOT LOL! actually SCAMMED money car), trying to gather people to support their lies. FACT-EVERYONE..and i mean EVERYONE knows the truth...even the people you are running to to suck up to....u could have just admitted the truth and walked away but the more you lie to cover up...the more obvious you make it.

People like this arent even truthful to their own blood, never mind to others..im just very sorry its had to be brought infront of the panth this way as there really was no need for it to be this way. FACT-panj piare will not take this lightly as beadbi of our ithaas is beadbi of our guruji and no panj piare will take that. There are heavy prices to pay for these deeds, but u cant blame anyone but the bibi (as although we are saying its the couple-FACT-we all know its the bibi thats brainwashed her husband and others). Its all her doings as she tells the world that her dasam duar is open...and he believes it. if you truly are mata bhago and your dasam duar is open, you would not be telling people bull about black magic and breaking families up....u just gone too far! and its going to stop! worst of all, you have a few chele who believe you...and i feel for them as where will they go when you stab them in the back too (actually ur already doing that with ur lies..so I guess what i mean is....poor guys wont know where to go when they wake up).

Atleast fear Vaheguru if no one else!

[ohifwinterends 11]

Blimey :omg: Thats actually quite embarrasing. Trust me...........if other people (such as muslims and Hindus) read that they're not gonna think "oh my god that couple must be really evil". What they're actually gonna do is laugh their heads off at how patheticaly weak the once mighty fearless gursikhs are.

So seriously......you say the man is a gursikh. But surely one of the very definitions of a gursikh is that he is one without fear ?

Nahh, I am Muslim and I don't think that. Stuff similar to this happens in every religion, unfortunately. There are some crazy people out there!