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This is blatent ninda to say Guru ji didn't give charan pahul. It doesn't need to be mentioned in gurbani, because gurbani is mainly focused on internal and uniting jeev with akal.

You've obviously been brainwashed, I figured out which group and person you follow, and you confirmed this by PM. I think it's only fair that I leave it upto you if you wish to share this with the rest of cyber sangat. Look at akj and other sampradas, so many differences, but they all - these jathas, taksaals, smarada ALL believe guru sahib gave charan pahul, only one easily brainwashed would believe otherwise if told by a new "sant" or "gurmukh" or whatever. I sent you a couple of long pms talking in detail about certain avasthas, one example was unhad shabad. I showed you how sounds like bells and drums etc are yogmat anhad shabads and nothing to do with gurmat. You had no answer for this because your group believes these to be real anhad shabads. I still had respect for your group because you spend time doing naam simran, but distorting history such as this, that's unacceptable!

Next you'll say khanda bate di amrit was created after guru gobind singh ji. To get FULL udhaar and reach top most avastha, one has to become sikh of guru sahib through amrit. Read first ang of guru granth sahib and you’ll see “gurprasad” only with guru’s grace does one fully realise waheguru. In Guru Nanak's (and following guru sahibaan) time charan pahul was given, then guru sahib would place their hand on head (this shows if it’s ok for guru sahib to place hand on head then it’s also ok for guru roop punj pyare to do the same, but that’s a different topic), some gursikhs instantly became brahmgyani! others had to do their own kmayee, it was upto guru sahib how much kirpa he did during amrit shakuona. Guru Gobind Singh just changed the marada, because gurugadi next was going to larivaar saroop Guru Granth Sahib ji.

This is a childish argument about not worshipping punj tat, whatever that thing where Satguru’s jot resides that becomes pure amrit and worthy of bowing down to, whether it was in body form or now in granth form. Guru sahib would dip his toe in bowl of water, and that was enough to turn water into amrit. Then guru sahib would do drirta of naam by however much kirpaa he wanted to do. Some would get to stage of automatic simran, while some would reach top most avastha straightaway.

Now about charan in gurbani, I "suggest" you read "charan kamal ji mauj" by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, even though I know you wont. So I'll explain a little here. Having darshan of charan means 1st proper darshan of waheguru. Gursikhs should know that waheguru is beyond punj tat (so no phyiscal feet), so having darshan of god's feet is a magnificent prakaash. Reaching this avastha means you have chance of meeting waheguru fully. When guru sahib does kirpa and allows gursikh to see charans of waheguru then anand at that time becomes unbearable. The prakash is this bright:

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੂਰ ਉਜਾਰਾ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ॥੧॥

Chanting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the light of millions of suns shines forth, and the darkness of doubt is dispelled. ||1||

In sikh deras, which do not follow gumart, you cannot see praakaash of this magnitude, normally prakaash in deras is more dull and nowhere near as bright.

About SEEING charan:

ਚਰਨ ਪਿਆਸੀ ਦਰਸ ਬੈਰਾਗਨਿ ਪੇਖਉ ਥਾਨ ਸਬਾਏ

I thirst for His Feet, and I long for the Blessed Vision of His Darshan; I look for Him everywhere.

Guru Sahib describing the beauty of charan kamal in sukhmani sahib:

ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਅਨੂਪ

His Lotus Feet are incomparably beautiful.

When gurbani talks about washing charan and drinking in them, practically this means after jot vigaas has happened and you can see prakash of akal purkahs/guru’s charan within, then washing the feet is doing swaas swaas simran and drinking the amrit while the anand keeps on increasing.

Also remember many times saadh, sant in gurbani refers to guru sahib.

This will just come down this group believes this other group believe this.. Kinda a idiotic argument, theres alot of disagrements in between groups to what they believe is true, like Sant Jarnail singh has said Raag Mala is bani but Bhai Randeer singh from what I've learnt has said its not, this is one of many. its a shame im not on a higher level so could tell you from experience, but i can talk about where I am, and not above.

But my post has explained how guru shiabs gave amrit its through shabad, and How guru jee says that 5 piaaria make water in to amrit is written within Sukhmani shiabs, its through dristi (there eyes/vision)

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Just want a bit of help/advice. I feel that every time I go to the Gurdwara or start to do paath etc something bad always happens within the next few days.

It deters me from praying or visiting the Gurdwara. Seems like a catch 22 situation. Why is this happening?

What we think of as bad maybe Waheguru's way of eradicating our misfortunes:

ਅਪੁਸਟ ਬਾਤ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸੀਧਰੀ ਦੂਤ ਦੁਸਟ ਸਜਨਈ

Apusat bāṯ ṯe bẖa▫ī sīḏẖrī ḏūṯ ḏusat sajna▫ī.

That which was upside-down has been set upright; the deadly enemies and adversaries have become friends.

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Mut pulo rai, that's the point I'm trying to make that even though there are all these differences still all apart from you and your particular sangat believe guru sahib gave charan amrit.

Amrit through shabad? this is inner avastha, why don't some realise that there is outer sikhi and inner sikhi, both are required. By the way to get shabad one first has to become a sikh of the saadhguru, through initiation. There is physical amrit to drink which enters you into sikhi, there's also inner amrit. There is also amrit pervading everywhere. Who knows how many levels and countless gifts there there, only guru sahib does.

Regarding dristhee there are various avasthas for the eyes, and you can interpret the tuks anyway you want. Eyes get darshan, one gets dib dristhee, eyes fill up with amrit etc

Its true the more kmayee punj pyare have the more "kala" on amrit through their eyes, but the amrit is truly made by the 5 amrit baniyaa, this is the main ingredient. The kmayee of punj pyare just depend on your karma.

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okay this is confusing now, so im going to just carry on doing what my mann thinks is right. everybody seems to have different thinking. And just hope waheguru leads me the right way, without listening to anybody.

Bhenji, it's best to listen to Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars. Bhai Gurdas ji clears up a lot of misconceptions some Sikhs put in others. Satguru gave the key of Gurbani to Bhai Gurdas ji vaars. If today Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj comes down into a form......like it did as Narsingh......then i would bow to Maharaj. The 5 elements are pure. Maharaj never makes anything unpure. Many people have made them into maya.

Here is another way to understand it. We know Maharaj told us not to worship stone idols. But Gurbani tells us all of creation is the image of Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj. One question that comes up after hearing these two lines is. Stone are part of creation so why can't we worship them as image? These two lines sound like they contradict each other, but they don't. When Maharaj is saying all of creation is the image of the Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj, then that means i see Maharaj everywhere and in everything. So if Maharaj is everywhere, then which direction do i bow and to which object don't i bow too? When we reach a very high jeevan then Maharaj does kirpa and we start seeing Maharaj everywhere and that means even in small little creations...insects, worms, etc. Many bow to stone idols because they think its the form of Maharaj and Bhagat Namdev ji Maharaj responds to this by saying why are you bowing to one stone idol and the other stones (so called form of Maharaj) are being kicked around by you? Bhagat Namdev ji Maharaj is saying both equally have Maharaj inside but they are not the true form of Maharaj, so don't worship it. Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj tells us that Guru is the True Form and we bow to Guru and worship Guru. So when it came to Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj came as Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and spread Sikhi. Satguru is the true form, whether that be in human body, or as Narsingh, or as Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, or as Shabad Guru (these are all sargun (with form) forms of Maharaj). They are one and the same.

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Okayji paji onlyfive i Will listen to Bhai Gurdas ji's vaars. I understand that bit about sargun fully and agree with it and with charan da pahul, that sangat had amrit from the Gurus charan. Totally believe in that. But what i am saying is no human can be compared to our Gurus, therefore i feel it would be wrong for me to bow down to any human as god. Do satkaar of highly spiritual when one recognises their qualities, yes. But not replace them and forget god. I understand that god is in all, even bad people or evil is creation of god. But we are in this world to better ourselves and to control our mann from going to the bad side, eg: doing paap.

Thank you for explaining the five elements bit, that's what i did not get.

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if u gona look at drinking pplz water feet as a foot fettish! the yarrp bro! its maya to the max!! but the rivers of naam amrit flow from the sangat. maha purash. and the 5 pyaare.

charan pahul is not idol worship. gurbani says what gurbani says. theres soo much, literally loads! in sukhmani sahib about charan amrit! if u have douts then do this bani.

when one gets dib drist, all become that persons guru. these are high avastha galaa. and people (myself included!) who are starting off, will not understand this. getting to the level of dib drist, and then onwards to seeing through to the four corners of existance (chatur chakra) then onwards to ebcomming to sarab byaapak, this is phd, and onwards level of avastha!! its hard enough to explain the normal things.. so id say, do what guru G says. and whatever your understanding is, go to that. whether that be how to do shoe seva, or charan amrit, or any other type of amrit (although all amrit is also the same!). to each their own pathway! that hasbeen blessed by guru G! ik bharam bhoole firihe dehe dis, ik naam laag savaarya!!!!!




baba!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mun!!!!!!!! matvaaro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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But what i am saying is no human can be compared to our Gurus, therefore i feel it would be wrong for me to bow down to any human as god. Do satkaar of highly spiritual when one recognises their qualities, yes. But not replace them and forget god.

Sant ji in this video say exactly that....no one else can be Guru expect for 10 Gurus and Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.

The whole video is filled with education.

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in sarabloh granth, says there is dwadas roop of guru. !

10 gurus, guru panth, and guru granth. = 12.

no need for explanation that sangat (as in saaaaaadh sangat - which should be the only type of sangat that we see! tho its not) is our panth. hence, also our guru.

just to say here, to understand what guru is, its so very hard, but not immposible.


"Aapan pou gur khalse deena,Duteea roop Satguruu Granthha.

Bolan satguru sabad sanbhakhan, Naam gubind keertan samthaa.

Gunanuvaad pun sifate salahan, Outhhat bethhat sen karanthha.

Pavan panthh Khalsa pragtyo, Char baran asram subh panthha. 370.

En ko daras Satgur ko darsan Bolan Guruu Sabad Gur Granthha.

Dwadas roop satgur ae kaheeat, Dwadas bhan pragat har santa.

Partakh kalaa parbraham dhani chhe, Granthh 'Panthh-Khalsa' vartanta.

Dass Gobind Fateh Satgur ki Khalsa Granthh GUR roop When badantaa. 371.


have you ever heard more beautiful bani!


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