Bhagat Kabir Ji Da Janam Diwas

[UKLondonSikh]

Moving away from the debate on semantics ... which i think N30 Paji explained exactly why we can still believe in our line of Guru's ... whilst recognising the Guru status of two of the Highest of the High who were born before Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj ... the main point was how we reach out to Kabirpanthi's and Ravidassia's as the two most prominent examples (amongst many), so any new input would be welcome on that from particularly those that insist Bhagat is the only suitable term of reference. Thank you!

[gsinghysingh]

Fateh

Jonny paji hit the nail on the head, as much as it pains me to say, i dont think it has anythng to do with religion. The biggest percentage of all these problems comes from caste, plp call them self sikhs, hindus muslims etc like paji said most of these issues came from caste descrimination weather it be from jats etc.. The hindu caste sytstem is very hard to shake from our community, its actually impossible thats why gurmukhs and sants are rare just like sggs says so. Im probs the only person at work that uses singh as my surname and plp automatically thnk the worst. One guy tried takin the mick by saying the only reason you use singh is because you aint got a jatt last name (the guy did get a slap so it wasnt all bad) It is very upsetting and i hope it ends with an almighty bang. Parchar parchar parchar bring em back to sikhi.

Bhagat kabir what a legend of a man but not a satguru

[JSinghnz]

Fateh

Jonny paji hit the nail on the head, as much as it pains me to say, i dont think it has anythng to do with religion. The biggest percentage of all these problems comes from caste, plp call them self sikhs, hindus muslims etc like paji said most of these issues came from caste descrimination weather it be from jats etc.. The hindu caste sytstem is very hard to shake from our community, its actually impossible thats why gurmukhs and sants are rare just like sggs says so. Im probs the only person at work that uses singh as my surname and plp automatically thnk the worst. One guy tried takin the mick by saying the only reason you use singh is because you aint got a jatt last name (the guy did get a slap so it wasnt all bad) It is very upsetting and i hope it ends with an almighty bang. Parchar parchar parchar bring em back to sikhi.

Bhagat kabir what a legend of a man but not a satguru

Brother, each one of us who is PROUD TO BE A SIKH have to teach a lesson to these caste oriented,narrow minded,

buffoons who by using their castes are insulting our great religion. We need to upset these mindless people and not get upset

ourselves by their stupid, rotten pranks.

SINGH IS AND ALWAYS BE OUR LAST NAME.

[Only five]

Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa has stated in a video that only 11 Gurus can be referred to as Guru and no one else. People can say whatever they want and they can influence others on the wrong path, but the truth will always stay the truth. No poster on this site has the knowledge of Gurbani as Sant ji.

If someone wants me to put the video up then i will, but this video has been put up on this site by me a couple of times now. Do a quick search on youtube with Naamdhari and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa name in the search engine....it can be easily found.

Once Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj merged with Akal Purakh, there was no Kabir ji left, there was only the one, Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. Kabir ji was the dualism, which his Atma was trying to escape. Kabir ji was always changing, he changed for the worse to the best and then merged by Guru`s Grace. Satguru is never stuck in dualism or trying to escape from dualism. Satguru is true in the beginning, true in the present, and true in the end. If Bhagat Kabir ji Maharaj was Satguru, then in Gurbani he would have recieved this title by Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. At the right time Satguru took the form as Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev ji Maharaj and the royal command continued to be heard from human form.

[UKLondonSikh]

Only5 = Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa has stated in a video that only 11 Gurus can be referred to as Guru and no one else.

UK = Paji apologies for the late response. Clearly Jarnail Singh Ji was referring to our line of Guru's (of which there is universally acceptance of SGGS Ji as the 11th and eternal embodiment of that central + unified Truth). However, anybody on this planet that bows down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj (ie the fundamental definition of a Sikh) clearly accepts that Kabir Ji Maharaj was a Guru (after all Guru in the non-Panthic sense means Teacher and Satguru in the non-Panthic sense means True Teacher - which of course is the respect with which all Sikhs accord Kabir Ji Maharaj and Ravidas Ji Maharaj regardless of semantics)

Only5 = People can say whatever they want and they can influence others on the wrong path, but the truth will always stay the truth. No poster on this site has the knowledge of Gurbani as Sant ji.

UK = Exactly the truth about Kabir Ji Maharaj and Ravidas Ji Maharaj hunnah da status within Sikhi is clear cut given their contribution to SGGS Ji, especially when looked at in light of the fact that "cchay-may, sath-may thay att-may Patshah di bani SGGS Ji vich nayhee shamil haii" (ie Guru Har Gobind Ji, Guru Har Rai Ji and Guru Harkrishan Ji do not have bani in SGGS Ji Maharaj)

Only5 = If someone wants me to put the video up then i will, but this video has been put up on this site by me a couple of times now. Do a quick search on youtube with Naamdhari and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa name in the search engine....it can be easily found.

UK = Paji i don't think Jarnail Singh Khalsa Ji's popularity amongst youth is anything that needs an additional video to cement. Rather, the question should be is that why is Jarnail Singh Ji a greater role model amongst certain youth than looking towards the perfection evident in the lives of main contributors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj?

UK = But getting back to the point, ignoring semantics for a minute, let's all of us explore ideas of how we can in practical terms bridge the ever widening gap between us and what Jonny Paji termed our "cousin" communities - particularly bearing in mind that Sikhs are now a minority in Doaba and if DSB succeed in their evil political agenda in alliance with Congress in widening gaps further then Sikhs could well be a minority in Punjab's 2021 Census.

[GuptUnknown]

Only5 = Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa has stated in a video that only 11 Gurus can be referred to as Guru and no one else.

UK = Paji apologies for the late response. Clearly Jarnail Singh Ji was referring to our line of Guru's (of which there is universally acceptance of SGGS Ji as the 11th and eternal embodiment of that central + unified Truth). However, anybody on this planet that bows down to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj (ie the fundamental definition of a Sikh) clearly accepts that Kabir Ji Maharaj was a Guru (after all Guru in the non-Panthic sense means Teacher and Satguru in the non-Panthic sense means True Teacher - which of course is the respect with which all Sikhs accord Kabir Ji Maharaj and Ravidas Ji Maharaj regardless of semantics)

Only5 = People can say whatever they want and they can influence others on the wrong path, but the truth will always stay the truth. No poster on this site has the knowledge of Gurbani as Sant ji.

UK = Exactly the truth about Kabir Ji Maharaj and Ravidas Ji Maharaj hunnah da status within Sikhi is clear cut given their contribution to SGGS Ji, especially when looked at in light of the fact that "cchay-may, sath-may thay att-may Patshah di bani SGGS Ji vich nayhee shamil haii" (ie Guru Har Gobind Ji, Guru Har Rai Ji and Guru Harkrishan Ji do not have bani in SGGS Ji Maharaj)

Only5 = If someone wants me to put the video up then i will, but this video has been put up on this site by me a couple of times now. Do a quick search on youtube with Naamdhari and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa name in the search engine....it can be easily found.

UK = Paji i don't think Jarnail Singh Khalsa Ji's popularity amongst youth is anything that needs an additional video to cement. Rather, the question should be is that why is Jarnail Singh Ji a greater role model amongst certain youth than looking towards the perfection evident in the lives of main contributors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj?

UK = But getting back to the point, ignoring semantics for a minute, let's all of us explore ideas of how we can in practical terms bridge the ever widening gap between us and what Jonny Paji termed our "cousin" communities - particularly bearing in mind that Sikhs are now a minority in Doaba and if DSB succeed in their evil political agenda in alliance with Congress in widening gaps further then Sikhs could well be a minority in Punjab's 2021 Census.

Ironic that you do not even use Sant/Bhai/Baba/Giani to refer to Sant ji, why the disrepect if i may ask? As to your question , main reasons that Sant ji is a big role model is accessibilty , also because many of the problems Sant ji was dealing with 20 years previous, still effect our people today.

[Beginner]

Uk London, why creatd such a fuss? I think you seem to want to change things just for the sake of it. If we refer to Bhagat Kabir Ji as Satguru, then where do we draw the line? The Panh Pyaray would be called Satguru, so would Baba Budha Ji, and Bhai Gurdas Ji. What differentiates them from Bhagat KAbir Ji? And then, that way, the line of our Satgurus may be indistinguishable and our first Guru would be referred to as JUST another prophet. If you can't see that bro...

[UKLondonSikh]

Gupt = Ironic that you do not even use Sant/Bhai/Baba/Giani to refer to Sant ji, why the disrepect if i may ask?

UK = To be honest I’ve never referred to Khalsa Ji with the terms Sant Baba. Same thing with Dhadrianwale and Daduwal, I was never raised within the whole culture of attaching the Sant label profusely. Nevertheless, I do acknowledge that in Khalsa Ji’s personal life and personal dedication to Sikhi and commitment to overcoming the problems within our Qaum both Sant-Sipahi aspects were evident. However, we don’t label every Khalsa as Sant Baba and for good reason. As despite Khalsa Ji’s personal purity, i believe the worldly decisions that Khalsa Ji made in political terms turned out in the end to be hugely damaging to the very Panth, Khalsa Ji was trying to protect.

Gupt = As to your question , main reasons that Sant ji is a big role model is accessibilty,

UK = True. I suppose youtube is easier to access than looking at the true and undisputed examples of perfection evident in the lives of the main contributors to the SGGS Ji Maharaj. And I think that’s where we are going wrong. If we look to the contributors of the SGGS Ji as our TRUE role models we will succeed many times over compared to those that sadly were defeated by Indira.

Gupt = also because many of the problems Sant ji was dealing with 20 years previous, still effect our people today.

UK = But you know what Paji, the tack taken after Vasakhi 1978 up until June 1984 was undeniably a huge factor in leading our Qaum into the present day situation we face. The only people who benefitted from the tone taken between 1978-1984 by Khalsa Ji were Congress and Indira. By presenting Sikhs as the evil enemy to arouse Hindutva, the legitimate demand for Anandpur Sahib was completely brushed under the carpet. A so-called Qaum in which the overwhelming majority of matrimonial rishthay were fixed upon traditional lines back in 1978-1984 had no real hope of beating Indira with forces+resources de facto a hundred or two hundred times bigger at her disposal. Respect to Khalsa Ji that they vigorously opposed meat, sharaab, drugs, jaath-paath as all GurSikhs should do but in terms of the political context I genuinely feel that we as Sikhs didn’t realise how we got “played” and “used” for Indira’s political ends. Back in April 1978 Indira was in the political wilderness. She cleverly manipulated certain elements within our Qaum to ride back into power by 1980. We all know what she did 1980-1984. The culmination of the 1978-1984 strategy employed by Khalsa Ji weakened our ability to combat those very same menaces that Khalsa Ji was sincerely opposed to and furthermore it actually increased our vulnerability and susceptibility to the state of affairs we see today. In short, that’s part of why I don’t feel comfortable attaching the appellation of Sant Baba to Khalsa Ji’s name. Look at 1978 like this ... imagine if 30 years ago, the equivalent of 3million Sikhs had been killed off by the Muslims ... should our focus then be on picking pangeh with the RSSB crew because of Waraich Pind da Gurdwara ... or should we realise who our true bigger enemies pulling the strings are, address our Qaum’s own internal matters first and then look to tackle a centre which is 50-100 times more powerful in resources+forces? I think that’s one of the mistakes we made when the fake Nirankari crook that was in bed with Indira decided to shoot 13 of our Shaheeds dead. They knew that we are hot-headed people and would get sidetracked without considering the bigger picture and the bigger agenda they wanted to trap us in for their own political gain. Even now with the RSSB issue, the gameplan is to foist hatred between Sikhs and RSSB followers so that RSSB followers do not return to the mainstream Sikh fold as increasing numbers of them discover the links that Charan Singh Grewal had to Indira and how Gurinder Singh Dhillon is a multi-millionaire many times over thanks to his links with wretched elements within the Congress party.

Beginner = Uk London, why create such a fuss? I think you seem to want to change things just for the sake of it.

UK = Not at all brother. No point changing things for the sake of it. If 100 million Ravidassia’s and Kabirpanthi’s who address Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Kabir Ji Maharaj as Guru will become more likely to join the Khalsa Panth as a result of us merely accepting that there is a non-Panthic useage of the word Guru for a “Teacher” then I think we need to keep an open mind. To be frank, i was worried that by controversially using the terms I did, the debate would get bogged down purely over the semantics rather than how we bridge the gaps with our fellow Sikh communities. The problem is that if our Sikhi is so kachee (weak) that we feel that merely by using a respectful term of address that has been around since the Sanskrit language was originally spoken, that somehow Sikhi will be eroded then that means our understanding of the eternal Truth within SGGS Ji is not as strong as it perhaps ought to be. Note that I’m not suggesting we start calling the Bhat Sahibans as Guru’s nor say that Dhunna Ji vi Guru si, merely that we need to keep an open mind regarding our two most beloved Bhagats. For the sake of the argument, let’s just say those that wish can freely refer to our Bhagats as Bhagats 100% of the time, then let’s focus on the issue (as one example) of how we address the evil baqwaas of DSB? And how their Congress-backed agenda relates to pushing Sikhs into a minority in Punjab by 2021.