Sikhs Movements And Sects (Website)

[Only five]

actually, Vedant has as its base the teaching that the vedas CANNOT give mukti.

Yes, and i made this point to show that the four vedas cannot be packaged together with Katha of Upanishads, which do speak of atma is Brahman. When a person makes the claim that vedas are the science of atma is Brahman, then this claim need to be denied because it is not true. Vedas speak about how to maintain the universe. If one drop of oil goes into the water....is it accepted as pure water? Even Katha of Upanishads can't be accepted completely. Sure they got couple of things right, but that does not mean we blind accept all of it. Even the Buddhist got many things right, but do we just blind accept everything?

Without a doubt some are allergic to the Hindu scriptures and also on the opposite side exist people who blindly accept all of the Hindu scriptures. If Katha of Upanishads were perfect (give mukti) or any other vedant scripture, then today we would have it on the Palki and there was no reason for Gurbani.

[N30S1NGH]

Onlyfive, you can pick your battles with sant hari singh ji randhawale when he said vedant is gyan chapter which has atamik gyan. I was re-iterating what he said as its pretty consistent with taksal vidya/syallbus. Atamik gyan is sanjha just like how sun does not belong to hindus, moon does not belong to muslims just like vedant-atamik gyan is sanjha..does not belong to anyone but nirgun parbhram..on a lighter note - bhrama (diety) didn't pull off vedant atamik gyan from his arse .it was given to him thats mentioned too .!!

Anyway i m out of this thread, kam can fill rest of it... i have to keep reminding myself to stay away from discussion turned to debates (surely my fault)...will try to stay away from it next time.!!

[Singh559]

There is a healthy level of debates where people like myself who don't know much about Sikhi can look at both sides and weigh them to make our own educated decision. Obviously debates aren't the only means of learning, just a different way.

[Bijla Singh]

Singh Ji, if we keep Vedas out of this topic it would be better. I do not understand why Shankara’s version of Vedant is supported and not any other’s commentary on Upnishds. Shankara’s Vedant has been refuted by some Hindu scholars as well and its whole concept is monistic, other worldly and impersonal. If you can explain any fundamental similarities between Vedant and Gurmat in a separate topic, it would be enlightening. So far I have found more fundamental differences and found Vedant to be an empty talk. It lacks experience of the Higher Reality. God in Vedant is impersonal, inactive, attributeless and not interested in any part of life. The world of Vedant is an illusion and not real. Ideal human of Vedant has no active role or social responsibility towards the world. All these are completely opposite from Gurmat. Please read books by Dasgupta and Radhakrishnan to understand a little about six philosophies. Then read books by Bhai Randhir Singh and Bhai Veer Singh. To keep one mindset is not progressive. Sure there is a lot of vidiya in sampardas but it is not the end of it and there have been and are many eminent historians and scholars who explain Gurmat and Sikh history beautifully. You should broaden your scope of study to get a comprehensive understanding. Sampardas lack this greatly which is why they are falling behind.

I am well aware of negatives of Singh Sabha especially Bhasaur but even Bhasaur DIwan made good headway in the beginning. They advocated Punjabi, administered Amrit to women and stopped many empty rituals. Later on, in an attempt to “purify” Sikhism, Teja Singh went too far and committed many mistakes. Nobody denies this fact. You can open a separate topic to discuss “negative contribution” of Singh Sabha and I will be happy to learn the facts. I have already mentioned some books to you. Please read those and evaluate the evidence presented. I do not think non-Sikhs can do full justice to Sikh religion and its history. Myself being from Taksali background, all I heard was anti-Singh Sabha remarks but only against Teja Singh. Overtime, when I engaged in independent study I leaned that not everything Taksal says is true and they only focus on one aspect. In the end, we are all part of the same Panth and should never put any jatha before Gurmat and the Panth. Unfortunately, this is not the attitude of most groups today and much time is being spent in criticizing and pointing fingers. I too do wish that one day all groups are united in one rehat and work towards chardi kala of the Panth. Guru Rakha

[SunSingh]

just one more thing to add, there are different philosophies about the soul. so, if a hindu speaks about vedant, he is discussing something different than the sikh version of vedant. vedant in sikhi is very different from vedant in hinduism. if vedant was not called vedant but had a different name than all these people opposing it would both stop opposing it and stop confusing people by presenting sikh version of vedant as if it were the same as that in the various hindu philosophies.

anyways, look forward to kam's post as he can explain it better than me.

[Gurdaspuria E12]

i will just like to add another point. In my local area we have two santhyia teachers both from sampardas. there are barely 15 proper full time students between them. Some of the those the do not come say we dont believe the way the path to be tought is shudh. Which is fair. but when you litsen to their path, neither is it clear, crisp and the worst is that they mistakes in laan , 2- laan and in sihari and bihari because they have not that much abyhass. Fair enough u dont believe in samparda path but for love of God if u beileve in grammer at least pracitce ur path and make it shudh as possible

Wat i say if u beleive in the grammer. Do santhyia with samparada (which make you practice eg. santhya of 5 pauria japji sahib in class means you have to practice it 25 times at home or as much as you can) and then add Grammer ur self. U will learn double the arths and u will be one hell of a paathi.

The sampardaric santhiya for a grammer student should be the foundation

[Into the Light]

Do the grammatical rules of viakaran apply to Raagmala?