Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[taran0]

another question

if Nidar spent ten years in India with a random NIhang and learnt Shastervidiya and became last sikh warrior - then are we to beleive that NIhang Singhs who have been living in Dals for all of their lives for many generations couldn't learn the art of shastar vidiya?

are the Nihangs really that USELESS ?

I'm sorry but i find that hard to believe

and to claim to be the last and only one is an insult to the Nihangs !

in actual fact many Nihang Singhs know shastar vidiya - the only reason it wouldn't look authentic to you is because it hasn't been embellished with the western influences of Silat, JKD, Escrima, Jujitsu, etc Nidar has been very careful to study other arts and incorporate them into shastar vidiya and market himself to the western audience

so you guys see it and think wooahhh looks effective like jkd, krav maga and silat - and i know you really want to BELIEVE its the original art because Gorey are giving you attention, but he should be honest about it.

proof of this is in this video where Pat O Malley says the 3 arts are the same, put any one in each others arts and they wouldn't know the difference at 8:13 in the following video

so if thats the case ! whats so special about Nidar? why didn't he speak up and tell them that his art is older or more authentic like he has done to all the punjabi people - ahh but gora endorsement means more so he stays quiet and accepts that he's just an average teacher like the other two guys.

now Pat O Malley and Maul Mornie both teach filipino martial arts and Silat,

Nidar Singh Learnt Silat from two brothers from Coventry around ten years ago one of whom is an instructor level who trains with the american Silat Masters

and how do i know that? - because i used to learn from the same guy

[singh135]

I think what concerns people is that once someone starts to go to these classes there seems to be;

- a gradual disintegration of spirituality and dharam

- abandoning of paath or kirtan : as if it is something that is not needed as a warrior and only for saintly people

- they start to distance from their sangat and close friends into an isolated group of people from the akhara

- have a belief that other mainstream Sikhs are in some way inferior or are living a British lie and do not know the real Sikhi which is sanatan

- a gradual change in turban style and behaviour to mimic that of their new leader ; a very cocky and arrogant attitude

- they seem to propagate this myth that all other mainstream Sikhs are mindless brainwashed extremists

- a tendency to bring up controversial topics just to provoke a reaction

- some will start to partake in alcohol or casual marijuana use

- will not accept any criticism aimed towards Nidar

there are a few others but it seems cisco you have proven the point i have been trying to make all along.....

if Nidar's shastarvidiya classes have no spirituality or dharam then they cannot be the "Martial way of Guru Gobind SIngh ji"

as sometimes Guru would abandon all logic of warfare and traditional battle tactics by sitting down to do Asa Di Vaar while in battle situations

and sending his sons out to fight knowing full well there was no chance they could win the battle, instead they conquered the world

by sacrificing this body, but never abandoning the light of allegiance and love to God.

how can a man who says there is no need for warriors to do prayer be a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh ji who said in bhai Nand Lals Tankhanama that a Sikh should not eat without doing japji, should not pass evening without rehraas, and should not sleep without doing Kirtan Sohila.

Then there is the most famous story of Bhai Dalla who egotistically kept boasting to Guru Gobind Singh ji about his great warriors. Guru Gobind Singh ji asked him to present his warriors so that he could test his gun, dalla and his warriors stalled and noone came forward, but two Singhs who were doing seva in the Langar came running offering themselves as targets, even fighting each other for the chance. showing dalla that it was not great warriors but those who were willing to give their head, wealth and all in return for the Love of their beloved.

This story reminds me of the Shastarvidia going on about their ancient "original" art and last Sikh Warrior status symbol, referring to their many interview battles in the magazines and newspaper articles.

It is this lack of Dharam and spirituality which is the problem with Nidar! and why we advise our young people to stay away from him.

Guru Gobind Singh ji made us Sant-Sipahi

Guru Hargobind Sahib ji wore two Swords - Miri and Piri - teaching the Sikhs that both need to go hand in hand, Spirituality and Sikh warfare go hand in hand.

the bola of the Nihang Singhs goes....

Amazing post

[savinderpalsingh]

found out a persian channel of those guys maintaining thier art of war

look at our art of display Gatka !!

more of us need to learn shastarvidya from nihangs (not nidhar singh) and keep it alive

http://www.youtube.com/user/tuerkefechi?feature=watch

[Cisco_Singh]

another question

if Nidar spent ten years in India with a random NIhang and learnt Shastervidiya and became last sikh warrior - then are we to beleive that NIhang Singhs who have been living in Dals for all of their lives for many generations couldn't learn the art of shastar vidiya?

are the Nihangs really that USELESS ?

I'm sorry but i find that hard to believe

and to claim to be the last and only one is an insult to the Nihangs !

in actual fact many Nihang Singhs know shastar vidiya - the only reason it wouldn't look authentic to you is because it hasn't been embellished with the western influences of Silat, JKD, Escrima, Jujitsu, etc Nidar has been very careful to study other arts and incorporate them into shastar vidiya and market himself to the western audience

so you guys see it and think wooahhh looks effective like jkd, krav maga and silat - and i know you really want to BELIEVE its the original art because Gorey are giving you attention, but he should be honest about it.

proof of this is in this video where Pat O Malley says the 3 arts are the same, put any one in each others arts and they wouldn't know the difference at 8:13 in the following video

so if thats the case ! whats so special about Nidar? why didn't he speak up and tell them that his art is older or more authentic like he has done to all the punjabi people - ahh but gora endorsement means more so he stays quiet and accepts that he's just an average teacher like the other two guys.

now Pat O Malley and Maul Mornie both teach filipino martial arts and Silat,

Nidar Singh Learnt Silat from two brothers from Coventry around ten years ago one of whom is an instructor level who trains with the american Silat Masters

and how do i know that? - because i used to learn from the same guy

Which brothers in Coventry ? You dont mean lucky madohar from total martial arts academy do you ?? You should do a video with the coventry guys and get them to put on record that they taught Nidar Singh Silat...

I wouldn't exactly describe Pat O Malley and Maul Mornie as average instructors one is a multiple European champion the other is now so well known its near impossible to book him for seminars..not to mention he also holds training for police forces across Europe...

Now if Nidar Singh only knows silat...why has he not been exposed at the various martial arts shows he holds demos at ? I'm pretty sure other martial artists can recognise silat from other arts. Also it doesn't explain who taught Nidar Singh the specifics of indo Persian weaponary .. A lot of the edged weapons used in sv are not seen in other filipino art forms the technique and subtle differences are also clearly visible. Where do you see the 22.5 degree angle concept in silat ?? See the recent dog brothers review of Nidar Singh's Toronto seminar where the guy says the 22.5 degree concept effectively halves the range of motion he is used to in conventional martial arts... But hey all of these established martial artists must be wrong right ? Because Nidar Singh must be some sort of genius that he learned multiple martial arts and indo Persian weaponry, historical contexts etc then mixed it all up so well..that guys with 30 years experience can't tell....

[proactive]

Cisco Singh,

You seem like a typical cult member, Either you are in at the higher rung in which case you know Niddar.s so-called art and sanatan Sikhism is BS or you are in the lower rung who takes everything that niddar tells you as gospel truth, Sorry to be blunt.

[singh135]

Cisco Singh,

You seem like a typical cult member, Either you are in at the higher rung in which case you know Niddar.s so-called art and sanatan Sikhism is BS or you are in the lower rung who takes everything that niddar tells you as gospel truth, Sorry to be blunt.

lol, hit the nail on the head there

[taran0]

The problem is nidars students never look at the whole, they only ever look at the narrow parts that can keep them believing - it is a common condition in cult members where they will ignore the many faults and fixate on one event, or one aspect of the cult leader so they can keep on saying to themselves but he did this or i remember this incident so he must be true.... but step back a little , leave your emotions for a second , go and meet a few other people , go beyond the classes listen to people who have the opposite view with an open mind rather then closed , and you will see the whole big picture. lets say for one second that you open up to the possibility that Nidar may be exaggerating a little.

Nidar is just a normal man like you or me - no one is invincible and no one but Vaheguru is beyond fear.

its easy to manufacture a legend - all he has achieved is to divide - court controversy and gone out of his way to insult us and our brave heroes

if he had any ounce of wisdom he would have brought people together with respect and improved the situation we are all in - yet he has made it worse he chooses to surround himself with like minded people and sheds the sensible ones who are genuinely there to learn. His own actions and behaviour are a detriment to his own students as they then have to alienate themselves from their wider sangat. HE only gets on with people who will see things his way - does he have any friends from different jathebandees or are all other non-believers off limits

he has been teaching for 15 years yet he has produced no heir - he has insulted all his students by going in national newspapers by saying he is looking for the next "last Sikh Warrior" , which means his own students are just mediocre and not good enough

he has an agenda and he abuses his martial art to drive it into young peoples heads...

he cares not for the consequences that his words have on his students.... and many of his students have said its not his fault what students get upto... but his students candid attitude towards drugs and alcohol is evidence of bad teaching.

the most ridiculous thing I have heard is - and if you could please address these points as i think this is where i'm having trouble understanding....

1) Nidar learnt from the nihangs in india - yet the nihangs in India don't know shastarvidiya ?

2) Nidars teacher Learnt from Baba giana singh alongside other singhs like Baba Pritam Singh (who is still alive and has ACTUALLY lived with baba Giana Singh) but then how come Nidar is the only one with the original vidiya despite never meetign baba Giana Singh?

3) so Baba Giana Singh taught so many budha dal singhs shastarvidiya, yet NIdar and his master were the only ones who he taught the authentic stuff to? what was wrong with all the other nihangs he taught?

4) Who made Nidar the last teacher of shastarvidiya? when was the ceremony and which elders were present when this ceremony occured? did he just appoint himself?

so this means one of two following is true;

1) either all the nihangs are completely fake and useless as they couldn't even learn a martial art when the master was living amongst them all HIS LIFE- and only nidar's master was able to learn the authentic art to pass onto Nidar alone. This would also make Baba Giana singh a pretty useless teacher, if in all those years of learning and teaching he only taught ONE STUDENT properly!

..or....

2) Nidar learnt the same stuff they learnt and then just made up the rest, embellished it, but read a lot of books did his research added some western silat, jkd, etc marketed and sold it in the west as an ancient art and made out he was "the last Sikh Warrior" of an ancient order of Sikhs who's sole purpose is to propagate the teaching of a martial art

if you have any other scenario then I welcome your input

I'm not your enemy just because I'm asking the wrong questions, i was in the same place as you a few years ago

[singh135]

Smashed it.. Niddar and his weasels have been squashed with those points

[Mrsingh11]

well, i think you guys may want to take a look at this, something else that challenges the credibility of nidar. One of his students is a pervert and was caught on cam lmfao

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72947-pervert-exposed-from-southall-west-london/#entry594833

[proactive]

I bet Cisco Singh will come on here and claim that what that f.ool is doing is a Shastar Vidya move called MODCUT and accepted as a martial arts move by Grand master O'malley or O'reilly or whatever he's called