Doubt on getting Naam Jugti - Reru Sahib Mahapursh Updesh

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

I don't think you have your opinion at all veerji. Don't deny the fact that you are more leaned toward Sikh missionary college ideology. I spent some time with this rogue institution so I know who and what they are and how they brainwash others. i respect you as an individual and I hope others also do but don't think that you won't see any friction here by attacking the core principle of sikhi, which is naam abiyaas.

Veer ji first of all I will share one personal thing with you about naam simran.

My father was a naam abhiaasi with his tenth door open.

In any case I am not against and should not be understood against amritvela naam simran.

Problem if you hear the clip in the first post, what actually baba ji is saying is the issue of contention.

Naam jugti can be given by abhiaasi mahapurash and my belief every thing about naam and its abhiaas is cleary defined in Guru Granth Sahib. Any one who finds difficult to understand baani can do company of Gurmukhs who understand Gurbaani better then us.

If you do naam abhiaas and read baani I do not believe there will be problem.

I never intend to insult any Gursikh or Baba ji.

But can certainly discuss what they are saying, why they are having deewan on pooranmaasi. :biggrin2:

[GPS]

One cann't do Naam simran sovat( while sleeping), saas giras( with every breath and morsel) is he or she has not done naam abhias by repeating Gurmanatra for a long time and has been granted blessings of Guru ji.

It is easy to talk about it but difficult to explain when probed. This is the essence of sikh teachings. Guru panth advises us about jugti.

Mahapurash who have kirpa of waheguru can start Naam abhias even by touching you.

Now fake sikhs like missionaries have not been taught this as they are advised in their schools of atheism that this is parroting. That is where these people have strayed from sikh path.

Did not your father, a blessed soul, not teach you basics of it?

read baani I do not believe there will be problem.

If you are not literate and do not know how to read Gurbani , will that mean you cann't meet God?

[GPS]

http://sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=4018&cat=19

Some signs of progress on the path of naam-simran are:

1 Saying ‘Waheguru’ once makes one want to say it again.

2 Faith in the worth of naam grows each day.

3 A peaceful spot emerges within the heart.

4 Lust, anger, etc. that make one miserable, start to wane.

When we utter ‘Waheguru’, each time we feel like uttering it again, we should thank Him over and over again for His gift, for giving us naam and for making it taste sweet.

A faqir (holy man) may possess hidden spiritual power, like someone who hides a heap of explosives. But the faqir is different because he is gentle, he acts ‘powerless while having the power’ [GGS:1384.17] and quietly endures the hidden prowess resulting from naam.

Until the teacher allows and says that the student is ready to teach others, a seeker must also practice restraint.

When someone shows us our faults, we dislike it. So we should constantly examine ourselves and remove our own errors. “Time and time again, he must hold himself back from maya and appraise his own mind against the inner measure” [GGS:857.16].

Sikhs did not mind criticism from their Guru. Rather they lived the words, “my Guru’s rebukes taste sweet to me” [GGS:758.7]. Even today, we need to have some gurmukh among us who can see our faults and teach us how to correct them.

Some people start feeling proud when they start to enjoy the taste of naam simran. Pride is a hurdle, a trap, on this path. We must guard against it.

Sometimes our mind is exalted and it makes us act virtuously. At other times the same mind can drag us down and make us do bad things. A man needs to thank God whenever his mind is inspired, and rebuke himself when the mind is in a corrupt state. Be sorry, and make an effort to rise above that state. In other words, pray for wisdom to conquer the corrupt side of our mind.

Pious individuals always guard against this slippery nature of the mind. Whenever they are in an exalted state, they do not feel proud but see it as God’s mercy.

The naam - Waheguru - can do miracles. Repeating ‘Waheguru’ creates a living force inside us. It quickens our soul, the same as an unborn baby starts to kick. There is a placenta also in there but it is not active and thus it shows no sign of life.

Just as a pitcher is made with clay and water, our mind is also made from a mixture of matter and spirit. The part that is inside - just as water is inside the pitcher – is the spirit that needs to become one with Waheguru.

When we immerse the pitcher in water, the water inside it is surrounded by the water outside. Similarly, when we are in Waheguru He is inside us. By doing naam-simran we become one with the Waheguru whose naam we repeat.

Simran of naam is a supreme act, higher than all the disciplines. When we repeat naam we surrender ourselves to God. We fall at His feet. He is then obligated to remove the obstacles from our path. Just as a man is obligated to protect someone who seeks his protection, when we take sanctuary of Waheguru, He feels responsible to deliver us.

“God feels responsible when Nanak lies at his door” [GGS:135.17].

Someone who practices naam needs to develop great patience and humility. Various spiritual powers surround us when we repeat naam. The seeker must not show them because such acts strengthen the seeker’s pride and haumai.

When the haumai takes hold of us, we lose the taste of naam.

“Haumai is opposed to naam, the two cannot dwell in the same spot” [GGS:560.12].



February 7, 2013

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[gurdeepsinghjohal]

One cann't do Naam simran sovat( while sleeping), saas giras( with every breath and morsel) is he or she has not done naam abhias by repeating Gurmanatra for a long time and has been granted blessings of Guru ji.

It is easy to talk about it but difficult to explain when probed. This is the essence of sikh teachings. Guru panth advises us about jugti.

Mahapurash who have kirpa of waheguru can start Naam abhias even by touching you.

Now fake sikhs like missionaries have not been taught this as they are advised in their schools of atheism that this is parroting. That is where these people have strayed from sikh path.

Did not your father, a blessed soul, not teach you basics of it?

If you are not literate and do not know how to read Gurbani , will that mean you cann't meet God?

A mind is always filled with thought, you should see if you can replace that thought with Waheguru Gurmantar.

Sikh means student. You are literate and yet seems to me you do not know the basics.

Dhanna Jat is the example if you read baani.

Lets discuss about naam simran and its requirement.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

About Dhanna Jat.

Vaar 10, Pauri 13 of 23

ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਧੰਨਾ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਣ ਆਵੈ।

Baamhanu Poojai Dayvatay Dhannaa Gaoo Charaavani Aavai.

A brahman would worship gods (in the form of stone idols) where Dhanna used to graze his cow.

ਧੰਨੈ ਡਿਠਾ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਪੁਛੈ ਬਾਮ੍ਹਣੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ।

Dhannai Ditdaa Chalitu Ayhu Poochhai Baamhanu Aakhi Sounaavai.

On seeing his worship, Dhanna asked the brahman what he was doing.

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋਈ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ।

Tdaakur Dee Sayvaa Karay Jo Ichhai Soee Phalu Paavai.

“Service to the Thakur (God) gives the desired fruit,” replied the brahman.

ਧੰਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਜੋਦੜੀ ਮੈ ਭਿ ਦੇਹ ਇਕ ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ।

Dhannaa Karadaa Jodarhee Mai Bhi Dayh Ik Jay Tudhu Bhaavai.

Dhanna requested, “O brahman, if you agree kindly give one to me.”

ਪਥਰੁ ਇਕ ਲਪੇਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇ ਧੰਨੈ ਨੋ ਗੈਲ ਛੁਡਾਵੈ।

Padaru Iku Lapayti Kari Day Dhannai No Gail Chhudaavai.

The brahman rolled a stone, gave it to Dhanna and thus got rid of him.

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨੋ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਾਲਿਕੈ ਛਾਹਿ ਰੋਟੀ ਲੈ ਭੋਗੁ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਵੈ।

Tdaakur No Nhaavaali Kai Chhaahi Rotee Lai Bhogu Charhhaavai.

Dhanna bathed the Thakur and offered him bread and buttermilk.

ਹਥਿ ਜੋੜਿ ਮਿਨਤਾਂ ਕਰੈ ਪੈਰੀਂ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤ ਮਨਾਵੈ।

Hadi Jorhi Minati Karai Pairee Pai Pai Bahoutu Manaavai.

With folded hands and falling at the feet of the stone he begged for his service to be accepted.

ਹਉਂ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਨ ਜੁਠਾਲਸਾਂ ਤੂ ਰੁਠਾ ਮੈ ਕਿਹੁ ਨ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ।

Hau Bhee Muhu N Joutdaalasaan Too Routdaa Mai Kihu N Soukhaavai.

Dhanna said, “I will also not eat because how can I be happy if you are annoyed.”

ਗੋਸਾਈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਇ ਛਾਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਵੈ।

Gosaaee Paratakhi Hoi Rotee Khaahi Chhaahi Muhi Laavai.

(Seeing his true and loving devotion) God was forced to appear and eat his bread and buttermilk.

ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥੧੩॥

Bholaa Bhaau Gobindu Milaavai ॥13॥

In fact, innocence like that of Dhanna makes the sight of the Lord available.

Some even consider Dhanna worshiped a stone but Gursikh consider ਭੋਲਾ ਭਾਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ॥

[GPS]

A mind is always filled with thought, you should see if you can replace that thought with Waheguru Gurmantar.

Sikh means student. You are literate and yet seems to me you do not know the basics.

Dhanna Jat is the example if you read baani.

Lets discuss about naam simran and its requirement.

Waheguru simran substitutes those vagrant thoughts by love for God.

Dhanna jat was not able to read but he got realization. So how did he get it? Devotional bhagti and childlike innocence.

[GPS]

Rom Rom simran means advanced stage of simran in which simran is going on without effort.

If someone derives its other meaning then he is fooling around.

Sant Sunder Singh bhindrewale was taken ill and admitted in hospital.A sikh doctor was

attending him. One day doctor told him that when he was driving his car to hospital, he

felt that wheels of his car are uttering waheguru, waheguru. Sant ji asked him to put his

stethoscope anywhere on his body. When doctor did that he heard waheguru , waheguru

emanating from sant ji's body. This is rom , rom simran.

The above was told by that doctor himself on bhog ceremony of Sant ji.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

Rom Rom simran means advanced stage of simran in which simran is going on without effort.

If someone derives its other meaning then he is fooling around.

Sant Sunder Singh bhindrewale was taken ill and admitted in hospital.A sikh doctor was

attending him. One day doctor told him that when he was driving his car to hospital, he

felt that wheels of his car are uttering waheguru, waheguru. Sant ji asked him to put his

stethoscope anywhere on his body. When doctor did that he heard waheguru , waheguru

emanating from sant ji's body. This is rom , rom simran.

The above was told by that doctor himself on bhog ceremony of Sant ji.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

ਰੋਮਿ - romi - रोमि

ਰੋਮ ਵਿੱਚ. "ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਇਕ ਬੇਦਨ." (ਬਿਲਾ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੪)

रोम विॱच. "रोमि रोमि मनि तनि इक बेदन." (बिला अःमः ४)

ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਉ ॥

ਨਿਮਖ - nimakha - निमख

ਸੰ. ਨਿਮਿਸ2. ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਉਤਨਾ ਵੇਲਾ. ਜੋ ਅੱਖ ਦੀ ਪਲਕ ਡੇਗਣ (ਝਮਕਣ) ਵਿੱਚ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ. ਨਿਮੇਸ2 "ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਬਿਸਰਉ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ." (ਗੂਜ ਮਃ ਪ) ੨. ਨਿਮਖ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਜ਼ਰਾ (ਜ਼ਰ੍‍ਰਾ) ਵਾਸਤੇ ਭੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ. "ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਕਰਿ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਟਾਵੈ." (ਸੁਖਮਨੀ)

सं. निमिस2. संग्या- उतना वेला. जो अॱख दी पलक डेगण (झमकण) विॱच लगदा है. निमेस2 "निमख न बिसरउ मन ते हरि हरि." (गूज मः प) २. निमख शबद ज़रा (ज़र्‍रा) वासते भी आइआ है. "निमख निमख करि सरीर कटावै." (सुखमनी)

[luckysingh99]

It is easy to talk about it but

difficult to explain when probed. This is the essence of sikh teachings.

Guru panth advises us about jugti.

Mahapurash who have kirpa of waheguru can start Naam abhias even by touching you.

This is what Gurdeepji is trying to tell you guys !

If you start talking this talk and bypassing gurbani by claiming ''go and see mahapursh, and he will touch you to get you started!!''

Then this is completely wrong , since Gurbani itself is the INSTIGATOR !!

Not a person !!

If you stay tight with gurbani, then hopefully you will get darshan or similar to reassure you that you are on the correct path.

[Jonny101]

Its not an insult to u or any gursikh. If you felt so I sincerely apologies from you.

1. First of Jony101 Rom-Rom is metaphor check it with Prof.Sahib Singh.

2. Secondly doing naam simran in morning and in the day you do not follow gurmat and live according to gurmat the main problem starts there. People do not read baani so do not understand that simran for sikh is 24*7 concept.

3. In another thread you said "Narak" actually means "Narak" its not metaphor but "Sarap Jooni" you never answered and both were from same shabad. Narak in gurbani is metaphor.

4. You should understand gurbani then you should say "Sat Sat kar jano"

5. People who laid their lives were sikhs, we cannot argue on them.

6. Kala afghani and missionary well I have will ask them about there contribution and let you know.

Jugti of Naam abhiaas is given in Guru Granth Sahib "Saas Giras, uthat, bethat, sovat, jaagat"

time "har pal" "nimakh nimakh" "andin" "aath pahar".

Guru ji wrote everything, which jugti baba ji will teach the sikhs and if you feel that he can guide you to do naam abhiaas you should meet him.

My Guru Guru Granth Sahib has every jugti of naam abhiaas.

Lastly and more impotant what baba ji in audio clip posted in first post is saying you should check out all those shabads.

1. Prof Sahib Singh Jee is a respected scholar of the Panth. I also like to read his writings for reference every now or then. But even he has admitted in his autobiography that he has never had a spiritual experience. For him naam is a fruit which he has never tasted but has tried to describe through his scholarly estimation. So I would not use Prof Sahib Singh Jee as a reference on the subject of Naam and spirituality. For that I would rather use Sant Ishar Singh Jee, Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale, Bhai Vir Singh Jee, Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir Jee the last three are not even Sants for your info.

2. Who said only do naam in the morning and not the rest of the day? As per the Maryadha a Sikh is suppose to wake up in the morning to do Naam Simran and Nitnem and throughout the day spend doing naam simran or read bani while working. Doing Simran this way, naam simran becomes a habit.

3. Totally irrelevant to this thread. For you everything written in SGGSJ is metaphorical. You have turned Gurbani into one big joke. Next you will say even Guru and God is metaphorical and not real, and you think we will believe you?

4. It is those who say Gurbani is all metaphorical and not real that need to understand what sat sat kar jano means.

5. One should not point a finger at who did or did not do contribution to Panthic struggles because then other's can also point finger at you and ask you the same question.

6. Good luck.