Niddar nang and his letter

[13Mirch]

I always wondered about the 1984 bit. Does he state why invaders attacked India so many times in spite of Shastar Vidya?

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

I vote the Sangar rename captain caveman "Nadar"

[taran0]

i just watched this film and it was heartbreaking, if you cant watch the whole thing then please just watch this section

[taran0]

Nidar likes to think that he has the FULL vidiya, but really he just learnt the basic as well and propped up the rest with reading literature and amalgamating other arts.

This is evident from those who have seen the progression over the last 15 years, what is now even in name is different to what it is was then.

To say it is ancient and full is a complete massive long shot, I mean they can't even make wootz steel like the old days. For Nidar to have learnt the complete art there had to have been someone at budha dal who knew the full art, and they only taught one person?, and anyone else in India "oh they don't know the full art" probably because they havent been exposed to other martial arts for their techniques to be assimilated or they just not very good at adding 'loon - masala'

As time goes on our weapons have advanced and moved onto archery, cannons, guns and explosives so the old arts have naturally died away. Another thing is guru Gobind Singh Ji was an Avid Archer it was his favourite weapon, why isnt this in the FULL shastervidiya, and horse archery and horse warfare and the use of guns and cannons.

Regardless of this there is one aspect of Sikh Martial tradition that was unique and it was the fighting spirit of the Khalsa, most of Guru Gobind Singh ji's followers were simple farmers, tanners, carpenters, traders etc. but he made us all kings and princesses, and gave us a purpose and a way to fight agaisnt the oppression.

the 'shastarvidiya' as Nidar states was there before the Sikhs as well, but they were getting panned by the invading forces from Persia, Europe and Uzbekistan (where the Mughals originate from) they had powerful composite bows on horseback (which had been honed and perfected over generations since Genghis khans time) which could decimate Indian shastarvidiya armies before they even got half way through the battlefield, they wore armour which Indians were unaccustomed to. So all this talk of Marams(pressure points) that Nidar teaches his students wouldn’t have been used in battles. The Mughals also introduced the use of gunpowder that would not only damage but disorientate the enemy horses and elephants. Thus Shastarvidiya was defeated and defunct by the superior invading forces

"They brought with them techniques and instruments of warfare that were hitherto unheard of in the sub-continent. The soldiers were completely protected from any possibility of physical attack by means of a complete shield of armour from head to foot, their daggers and swords were made of superior alloys and they brought with them the use of gunfire in warfare. That is why, despite the courage and valour of the Indian armies a small group of warriors was able to overtake them and lay the foundation for one of the grandest Empires in Indian history, the Mughal Empire."

From the Art Of Mughal Warfare

so what was different between Guru Gobind Singh ji's soldiers, well

what he instilled in them was a fearless attitude and led by example by sacrificing the world but not his beliefs and truth and justice, this gave wake to a new kind of warrior, a Khalsa who fought with honour and had already given their head at baptism. It was the pure audacity and the way in which the Sikhs so readily gave their lives with great happiness that shook the foundations of the Mughal Empire.

The idea that it was a certain STYLE of fighting that enabled the Sikhs to not only win battles but win the hearts of the people to create the Khalsa raj, is in my eyes a bit of a Jackie Chan Kung Fu tale, where the snake style beats the eagle style.

Without spirit and zeal and spiritual strength any army or style of fighting is useless. Similarly for Khalsa without the guru gurbani and naam simran there is no point.

The Sikhs fought in the Second World War not with shastarvidiya but with guns and bayonets, using European modern style of fighting and they were hailed as having great courage and bravery - just read the history of the battle of Saraghari.

So don't be duped by dazzling displays or martial arts showmanship, or claims of ancient complete hidden techniques that have survived thousands of years, which can in no way be corroborated or proven.

When Nidar first came to the UK he used to claim that he never knew the name of his master who taught him, he was anonymous and lived hidden.

[chatanga]

As time goes on our weapons have advanced and moved onto archery, cannons, guns and explosives so the old arts have naturally died away. Another thing is guru Gobind Singh Ji was an Avid Archer it was his favourite weapon, why isnt this in the FULL shastervidiya, and horse archery and horse warfare and the use of guns and cannons.

I asked this question to one of Niddar Singh's students. No reply.

the 'shastarvidiya' as Nidar states was there before the Sikhs as well, but they were getting panned by the invading forces from Persia, Europe and Uzbekistan (where the Mughals originate from) they had powerful composite bows on horseback (which had been honed and perfected over generations since Genghis khans time) which could decimate Indian shastarvidiya armies before they even got half way through the battlefield, they wore armour which Indians were unaccustomed to.

There were 2 different techniques of fighting, on foot fghting hand to hand with swords/blades, and bows and arrows

and on horseback fighting with swords.

The moghals finetuned a very hard 3rd option, which was using archery whilst on horseback, and not with still horses, but galloping horses. Imagine how hard this is to do, just to fire 1 arrow, but to be accurate as well? Well hard. This was the drive-bys of yestercentury. You have to give them credit for this.

So all this talk of Marams(pressure points) that Nidar teaches his students wouldn’t have been used in battles.

These techniques are only of use, once the enemy is within your arm's reach, otherwise it is useless.

Without spirit and zeal and spiritual strength any army or style of fighting is useless. Similarly for Khalsa without the guru gurbani and naam simran there is no point.

Good point. Dharam Yudh.

[Guest]

Nidar likes to think that he has the FULL vidiya, but really he just learnt the basic as well and propped up the rest with reading literature and amalgamating other arts.

This is evident from those who have seen the progression over the last 15 years, what is now even in name is different to what it is was then.

To say it is ancient and full is a complete massive long shot, I mean they can't even make wootz steel like the old days. For Nidar to have learnt the complete art there had to have been someone at budha dal who knew the full art, and they only taught one person?, and anyone else in India "oh they don't know the full art" probably because they havent been exposed to other martial arts for their techniques to be assimilated or they just not very good at adding 'loon - masala'

As time goes on our weapons have advanced and moved onto archery, cannons, guns and explosives so the old arts have naturally died away. Another thing is guru Gobind Singh Ji was an Avid Archer it was his favourite weapon, why isnt this in the FULL shastervidiya, and horse archery and horse warfare and the use of guns and cannons.

Regardless of this there is one aspect of Sikh Martial tradition that was unique and it was the fighting spirit of the Khalsa, most of Guru Gobind Singh ji's followers were simple farmers, tanners, carpenters, traders etc. but he made us all kings and princesses, and gave us a purpose and a way to fight agaisnt the oppression.

the 'shastarvidiya' as Nidar states was there before the Sikhs as well, but they were getting panned by the invading forces from Persia, Europe and Uzbekistan (where the Mughals originate from) they had powerful composite bows on horseback (which had been honed and perfected over generations since Genghis khans time) which could decimate Indian shastarvidiya armies before they even got half way through the battlefield, they wore armour which Indians were unaccustomed to. So all this talk of Marams(pressure points) that Nidar teaches his students wouldn’t have been used in battles. The Mughals also introduced the use of gunpowder that would not only damage but disorientate the enemy horses and elephants. Thus Shastarvidiya was defeated and defunct by the superior invading forces

"They brought with them techniques and instruments of warfare that were hitherto unheard of in the sub-continent. The soldiers were completely protected from any possibility of physical attack by means of a complete shield of armour from head to foot, their daggers and swords were made of superior alloys and they brought with them the use of gunfire in warfare. That is why, despite the courage and valour of the Indian armies a small group of warriors was able to overtake them and lay the foundation for one of the grandest Empires in Indian history, the Mughal Empire."

From the Art Of Mughal Warfare

so what was different between Guru Gobind Singh ji's soldiers, well

what he instilled in them was a fearless attitude and led by example by sacrificing the world but not his beliefs and truth and justice, this gave wake to a new kind of warrior, a Khalsa who fought with honour and had already given their head at baptism. It was the pure audacity and the way in which the Sikhs so readily gave their lives with great happiness that shook the foundations of the Mughal Empire.

The idea that it was a certain STYLE of fighting that enabled the Sikhs to not only win battles but win the hearts of the people to create the Khalsa raj, is in my eyes a bit of a Jackie Chan Kung Fu tale, where the snake style beats the eagle style.

Without spirit and zeal and spiritual strength any army or style of fighting is useless. Similarly for Khalsa without the guru gurbani and naam simran there is no point.

The Sikhs fought in the Second World War not with shastarvidiya but with guns and bayonets, using European modern style of fighting and they were hailed as having great courage and bravery - just read the history of the battle of Saraghari.

So don't be duped by dazzling displays or martial arts showmanship, or claims of ancient complete hidden techniques that have survived thousands of years, which can in no way be corroborated or proven.

When Nidar first came to the UK he used to claim that he never knew the name of his master who taught him, he was anonymous and lived hidden.

I only have one problem with what you wrote.

It's not LOON it's NOON

Great post BTW

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

Haha! "You say Tomayto, I say Tomato" - Lets call the whole thing off :-P

[Cisco_Singh]

The art of horse riding or ghor swal, is a seperate art form in its own right for cavalry. The same as archery armies had specialist archers. These are different from your front line swordsmen etc.. the same as modern day armies have artillery, foot soldiers etc. I've never heard of Niddar Singh claiming to have knowledge of ghor swal or archery so you'd probably be correct in assuming he doesn't have knowledge of these arts.

You do realise that there specialist weapons that are used against chainmail and armoured opponents..punch dagars, katars etc to pierce chainmail, put through gaps in armour etc.

[Jangal Da]

I think the letter now needs verification because if it is a prank or someone intending upon slander then no matter who its against, its wrong and not the way the Khalsa fights its battles.

As for Nang Niddar, I have always reckonded he got the ' spent so many years back in the Des, doing kheti in a remote pendh for many years for the grand-master who eventually saw him worthy of making him his disciple and learning the art,' from some early 80s Jackie Chan (before he moved West/ became a world name - brilliant movies by the way) kung-fu movie. You know the ones that used to come on late on Channel 4 in the 90s and dubbed into English.

[Shastar Man]

Wjkk wjkf,

Fantastic post, i fully agree Niddar has learnt some of the art, he then mixed up the aspects that were missing from various arts and gave them fancy names to sound ancient and authentic. Another point is if this art is what he says, then it cant be effective since india was getting plundered and smashed by mughals until sri guru hargobind ji's time.

Get him out of wolves n leicester..

Wjkk wjkf