Christmas trees in houses of Sikhs

[Jivan76]

Oh jonny.,.....?

Gyan is ultimate knowledge.

One can only apply what he has learned and read.

Therefore simply reciting Shabads and Gurbani without applying them to your very being and projecting them in your outwardly gestures is but a hollow gesture. This is but the plurality of Sikhi, our Guru is completed with Bhagats aswel, of all our Bhagats how many of us can say we know someone of that jhaat?? We read Gurbani yet isolate ourselves from our wider community. This is just one example, but it exists and thats an argument for another thread. Times that example by twenty little minute gestures a day, even a single prejudicial thought in a long hard week.

What i'm failing miserably at, is to explain that i think your mistaking Mukhti with Gyan.

You see, Gurbani will give the understander Mukhti by laying open the path to the world but that is a mental journey, your actual human body must relate that to the actions of the real/physical world. Most of us with me at the front of the queue, believe that we already do this, but actually don't. This process is not limited to time so charsi lakh jhoon should be ample, but your whole life getting Gurbani and ultimately Naam to be, not only our every thought but literally every breath and action......that is when all your pains are gone and life is tranquil and serene......heaven on earth until its time to leave......hence its only with Ghristi Jivan that Gurbani and Naam the true nector will be awarded you.

Again with the personal insults, this is only the thoughts of one student and as its been mentioned a couple of times bhul chuk maaf kardeyo

[Singh559]

a little over a hundred years ago, there were many Sikhs who were celebrating Hindu and Islamic holidays and practices. When Singhs would remind such Sikhs that this is not how a Sikh should behave but such Sikhs would make clever arguements and all sorts of Bahanas as to why they should celebrate religious festivals of other religions. Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha observed these Sikhs and referred to them as Hardeghi Chamach and wrote the following poem:

Devi ko bhagat kabhee meera ko upaasha hai,

Daas Sultan ko au kabhee Laal-Beghi hai||

(Depending on the circle and situation, sometimes he becomes a worshipper of Devi and at other times of Meera. Sometimes they serve Sultan (a sect of Islam) and at other times they become Laal-Beghi (another sect of Islam))

Mann meh hai aur ar mukh maahe dooji baat,

Param Pakhandi, nakh Sikh Lau farebee hai||

(He has one thing in mind and something else on his tongue. He is a Param Pakhandi i.e. a great hyprocrite and a deceiver)

Swarath ko maan hai, mukh parmaarath tain,

Nimboo ko nichod agai karat rakebi hai ||

(From inside they have worldly reasons and aspirations but from tongue they speak of holyness and religion. They crush others as a lemon is crushed)

Singh roop dhaari anai matt ko parchaari bhaari,

Panth ko nikaaray jo chamach Hardeghi hai ||

(Such pakhandi adopts the appearance of a Singh but always sticks up or stands up and preaches other faiths. Such person who undermines Panth is a Hardeghi Chamach)

Taken from :http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,6055

Don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with Bhai Sahib ji. If you scroll back you can see my post from last year where I even said it's a normal day, just like every other day.

My only angle on this thread is that I believe the whole December season is culture and not religious at all.

It may have originated as a pagan ritual, as I mentioned earlier, but now it's just a consumer cultural thing where kids get presents.

Is there anything that says Sikhs can't change the holiday to Sikhmas and teach their kids about what happened in Sikh history in these months and what to be thankful for?

[jaspreet1]

I've never celebrated holi and I've even debated with multiple people saying why SIkhs don't celebrate holy. Do you believe what these Nihang are anti Sikh agents? Maybe you should wear a tin dastar and go debate them instead of judging people you don't know online?

So you teach against Hindu religious festivals, but celebrate Christian religious festivals. Okay now I understand where you stand. I won't label you like you just did to me. I won't drop down to your level.

With that said your posts stink (almost literally) of weird anti-social signs with the guise of dharam.

What can i say about your opinion other than disagree with such hatred that you venomously spit.

Let's be clear, all you've spewed since you've joined the forums is dogma which doesn't help you nor me. There's a GurSikh way of doing things and all you've done is post inflammatory and paranoid posts where you think everyone posting on this website is a sanatan Sikh.

I have not used the word sanatan Sikh once, but okay whatever floats your boat. Again the rest is your opinion and if I wanted to gather others opinions I have received support from other posters. If you want to keep track of how many people like you or do not like you then keep going down that road. All i am looking for is my Guru's approval.

Some youth remind me of modern muslims who get into religion to fight against the west, but in this case it's against anti-Sikhness. lol

I knew before I signed up on this forum that when a person cannot discuss they resort to name calling and slandering. So if your thinking i will leave after your venomous attack, think again. Come up with another plan

[Singh559]

So you teach against Hindu religious festivals, but celebrate Christian religious festivals. Okay now I understand where you stand. I won't label you like you just did to me. I won't drop down to your level.

What can i say about your opinion other than disagree with such hatred that you venomously spit.

I have not used the word sanatan Sikh once, but okay whatever floats your boat. Again the rest is your opinion and if I wanted to gather others opinions I have received support from other posters. If you want to keep track of how many people like you or do not like you then keep going down that road. All i am looking for is my Guru's approval.

I knew before I signed up on this forum that when a person cannot discuss they resort to name calling and slandering. So if your thinking i will leave after your venomous attack, think again. Come up with another plan

The reason I've called you weird and anti-social is because you fit the signs, it's not an insult. You're downright condescending and all I've seen is you passive aggressively make replies and judge people in a self-righteous manner.

Again, you haven't read my posts as I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrated Christmas as a kid and had my hair cut (To me Christmas was nothing more than receiving gifts and setting up a fake tree - didn't know anything about jesus or Christianity, although I did know basics about SIkhi), if it really was a Christian holiday I wouldn't have eventually kept my kesh and become an Amritdhari. Oh wait, according to you, I am not an amritdhari - i'm a hypocrite.

I don't celebrate Christmas nor do I think twice about it, most holidays (including my birthdays) for past 10 years I haven't even celebrated- haven't even asked parents to bring me cake. I am debating on a manner of principle and if you could debate only principle without trying to label someone as a hypocrite, I could have debated you in a less aggressive manner.

[jaspreet1]

Oh jonny.,.....

Gyan is ultimate knowledge.

One can only apply what he has learned and read................

Just apology for your mistake and move on. Instead you try to justify the direct disrespect you wrote against Gurbani. Obviously other posters like GPS and Singh559 know you made a terrible mistake by saying what you did, but they are reluctant to say anything due to their agendas. Especially, GPS who welcomed you back right after you wrote the following:

Gyan comes not from Gurbani alone but from Gurbani and life experience. Hence the essentiality of Ghristi jivan.

Jonny101 views satkar of Gurbani higher and GPS gives political power more importance.

[Singh559]

Jaspreet you adding oil and lighting a match isn't necessary, they can discuss with each other without you cheer leading.

What's my agenda that I have? This is why I'm being aggressive, your paranoia and bitterness seeps through all your posts. Actually happy you pointed it out, if you consider yourself a Khalsa, why hesitate? Point it out and enlighten everyone?

[jaspreet1]

I don't celebrate Christmas nor do I think twice about it, most holidays (including my birthdays) for past 10 years I haven't even celebrated- haven't even asked parents to bring me cake. I am debating on a manner of principle and if you could debate only principle without trying to label someone as a hypocrite, I could have debated you in a less aggressive manner.

Perfect, you have realized that puting up a Christmas tree and arguing with people to stop celebrating Holi is a hypocritical thing to do. Now it's on you to follow your own advice or not.

Jaspreet you adding oil and lighting a match isn't necessary, they can discuss with each other without you cheer leading.

What's my agenda that I have? This is why I'm being aggressive, your paranoia and bitterness seeps through all your posts. Actually happy you pointed it out, if you consider yourself a Khalsa, why hesitate? Point it out and enlighten everyone?

Your agenda is to please others even at the cost of going against Gurbani teachinges

[Singh559]

Perfect, you have realized that puting up a Christmas tree and arguing with people to stop celebrating Holi is a hypocritical thing to do. Now it's on you to follow your own advice or not.

Your agenda is to please others.

Do you lack reading comprehension?

How does that make me a hypocrite if I haven't put up a tree in years (since I was a kid) and I got into Sikhi in more recent years and debated people in more recent years? Are you saying you were born perfect? If you did something in the past and you overcome it are you not allowed to talk to debate others because (x) amount of years ago you did a mistake?

Just to add, putting a tree isn't a mistake like you'd point out.

Even if someone does put up a tree, it does NOT make them a Christian. A cultural event is what you make of it, that's what I've been stressing on this thread, but your self righteous ego self is adamant to show how everyone is a hypocrite and anti-Sikh.

Perfect, you have realized that puting up a Christmas tree and arguing with people to stop celebrating Holi is a hypocritical thing to do. Now it's on you to follow your own advice or not.

Your agenda is to please others even at the cost of going against Gurbani teachinges

Show me specifically where I've gone against Gurbani teachings and cite specific posts.

[Singh559]

According to jaspreet1 this tree is anti-Gurmat and anyone who made this is a hypocrite!

THERE IS NO WAY TO BE CREATIVE AND IMPLEMENT SIKHI INTO THE HOLIDAY SEASON YOU HAVE TO CRY AND BE MAD TO BE A SIKH THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU GO TO SACHKHAND

[jaspreet1]

Do you lack reading comprehension?

How does that make me a hypocrite if I haven't put up a tree in years (since I was a kid) and I got into Sikhi in more recent years and debated people in more recent years? Are you saying you were born perfect? If you did something in the past and you overcome it are you not allowed to talk to debate others because (x) amount of years ago you did a mistake?

Just to add, putting a tree isn't a mistake like you'd point out.

Even if someone does put up a tree, it does NOT make them a Christian. A cultural event is what you make of it, that's what I've been stressing on this thread, but your self righteous ego self is adamant to show how everyone is a hypocrite and anti-Sikh.

Show me specifically where I've gone against Gurbani teachings and cite specific posts.

endorsing a christmas tree and then telling others not to celebrate Holi is a double standard. Gurbani is clear on what we should celebrate and that is what Guru Sahib has told us. Yet you want to please others by saying nothing is wrong with putting up a christmas tree. Is that clear enough for you?