Going to Sants

[taran0]

there are many fake sants

there are many fake gyanis

there are many fake professors

there are many fake sikhs

but there are also true ones ...... dhundas clearly using some fake sants to ridcule all sants but this is not RIGHT !

If some sikhs steal does it mean all sikhs are theives and are bad ..... look at how many gyanis steal and abuse their power, look at how many gurdwara comittees are runnning their own business, look at how many people are doign nidniya of pratan granths and old shaheed singhs?

Dhunda uses the word professor when he has no qualification or right to use the prefix.... not all professors are even proper professors?

i say be careful of any sants and make sure they preach the correct teaching before you do sangat with them

but also be careful of this new evil that is lurking in kalyug - they are just like fake sants but instead the use the word PROFESSOR so it makes people respect their knowledge.

gurbani says

SEWA KO DO HI BHALE EK SANT EK RAM ! RAM JO DATA MUKAT KA SANT JAPAWE NAAM

Kabeer, it is good to perform selfless service for two - the Saints and the Lord.

The Lord is the Giver of liberation, and the Saint inspires us to chant the Naam. ||164

if in doubt just follow the GURU.... no professors or sants

wjkkwjfkateh

(Akhauti) "Professor" taran Singh

[GPS]

So called victory of panthic.org, please post the video of panthic.org of this interview.

Please read the article.Dhudha's first condition for coming for this dialogue was not to videograph it. Why not? Because he was scared of hollowness.

That is the sole reason his katha at Gurudwara stockton was cancelled.This happened not a century ago but around mid Jan 2013.

[GPS]

I have heard other so called sikhs say this, mostly us and canadian sikhs on spn, dont agree Naam simran is a must for a sikh thats what bani tells us constantly

please forgive me but how can one be sure a sant is a true sant, i dont do nindiya but.

i am not comfortable about bowing to anyone other than Guru Granth Sahib Ji maharaj

and would not. bul chuk maf

Then you people do not believe in sikh rehat maryada also if you do not believe in Naam simran. Then you do not believe in essence of Guru Granth sahib's teachings if you do not believe in naam simran

Guru Granth sahib says

naanak kai ghar kayval naam. ||4||4||

Nanak's home is filled with the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||4||4||

ang 1136

True sant never asks anyone to bow to him.he tells sangat Guru Granth sahib is the Guru jyot and bow before SGGS ji.

Gurbani acknowledges sants and sikhs had holy men throughout till today

Pl read

jo jo sa(n)th saraapiaa sae firehi bhava(n)dhae ||

Those who are cursed by the Saints will continue wandering aimlessly.

SGGS ji

[rrss]

As noted by some people, no middle man is required. We link directly to God and the Shabad guides us. Indeed the Shabad is God's shabad, presented to us by the true Guru. Such disregard for God is appalling and you talk of slandering 'saints'. Sikhi is all about God, not men.

Have faith in God, trust him, have a direct relationship with Guru and God. Few are those who understand and live life believing that no man is all powerful, each and every action, even the ability to walk and speak is by His grace alone. And it is with God's grace alone that one is put on the spiritual path, this attitude of requiring a middle man is very dera like and very much sant mat philosophy, not sikhi.

Finally, a true saint does serve a purpose but that is not to replace a Guru. He is of utmost humility and performs God's work and where his services are called upon by the sangat he seeks God's guidance and commits only if it is within hukam. If he is commanded to not remain gupt then he would primarily consider spreading the message of God throughout humanity, selflessly serve all of humanity and unite fractions, spread peace and love etc. A humble bhramgyani will consider himself part of a sadhsangat not a one man operation, be warned.

If someone is struggling with spiritual matters (such as uncertainty over a spiritual experience), Guru ji gives us absolutely everything one needs, but Guru ji recognises that people need assistance so a person may want to discuss with a saint, but one need not any special jatha or dera wala bhramgyai for this, there are thousands of humble and mostly gupt saints in satsangat who can perform this sewa and indeed Guru ji reccomends to seek the company of the holy for this reason- but unfortunately we are not bonding together as a spiritual community- i.e. localised groups which help one another as there are and always will be someone in the sathsangat who has sufficient spiritual knowledge such that one can help each other. I have been helped like this- I have never met and with God's grace, don't have the need to meet a jatha sant for spiritual matters because I have the true Guru and sufficient holy company. God's system is absolutely perfect, do not doubt it for a nano second.

I would recommend extended hours of mool mantar and gurmantar jaap, simran, prabh ki keerat and contemplation on bani to resolve doubts in your mind.

[GPS]

I think the topic is not about considering sants as middlemen. Topic is if there are persons of elevated spirituality ( Let us call them sants as gurbani recognises this word). The answer is yes.

Gurbani says servant of God is like God . There is no difference between two.So there is an acknowledgement of sants.

Now there are people who do not believe in naam simran and ridicule it. Do they abide by gurbani? The answer is big No.

What business such rotten persons have to slander others when they contravane basics of sikhism and reject path to realize God.

[GPS]

As noted by some people, no middle man is required. We link directly to God and the Shabad guides us. Indeed the Shabad is God's shabad, presented to us by the true Guru. Such disregard for God is appalling and you talk of slandering 'saints'. Sikhi is all about God, not men.

We are ourselves part of God as we have God inside us. But we have to realize Him through Guru and his grace.

[sat]

Then you people do not believe in sikh rehat maryada also if you do not believe in Naam simran. Then you do not believe in essence of Guru Granth sahib's teachings if you do not believe in naam simran

Guru Granth sahib says

naanak kai ghar kayval naam. ||4||4||

Nanak's home is filled with the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||4||4||

ang 1136

True sant never asks anyone to bow to him.he tells sangat Guru Granth sahib is the Guru jyot and bow before SGGS ji.

Gurbani acknowledges sants and sikhs had holy men throughout till today

Pl read

jo jo sa(n)th saraapiaa sae firehi bhava(n)dhae ||

Those who are cursed by the Saints will continue wandering aimlessly.

SGGS ji

You are right a true sant never asks any one to bow to him , but some say this but still allow people to bow before them, and also you are right again anyone who does not believe in naam simran does not follow the teaching of SGGS jI

[GPS]

also you are right again anyone who does not believe in naam simran does not follow the teaching of SGGS jI

Yes, Adopting naam simran as part and parcel of everyday life is the key to elevation of spiritualism .

[5ukhjinder5ingh]

In Guru Arjun Dev Ji's prayer Sukhmani Sahib, Guru Ji writes about the vitues of the company of Saddhus and Sants. I think it is Asthapadee13 Pauree 1-2. It writes about slandering Saints (see below). I know there are 'fake' babas, impostors out there but even so, we shouldn't slander them. Having said that, I might have just now lol

What I wanted to say is there are puran Mahapurush Sants out there. Myself and my family have been fortunate enough to follow and have the guidance of a line of puran brahm giani's from the Dera, Nirmal Kutia, Johalan. 108 Sant Baba Basant Singh Ji under the guidance of 108 Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji, Jian founded Nirmal Kutia. Sant Baba Basant Singh's apprentice was Sant Baba Gian Singh Ji, who was the Brahm Giani that I used to follow when I was a young boy. They used to travel the world and visit England in the late 70s right up into the early nineties. I was fortunate to be blessed by them and take amrit. I have been following that dera ever since, the current head Sant there is 108 Sant Baba Jeet Singh Ji. I just want to make it clear at no point do they see themselves as higher than SGGS Ji, they always tell us to pay our respects to SGGS first and then pay our respects to them. These brahm giani's are wonderful, powerful enlightened beings. They were sent by Waheguru to spread the word of Sikhi, to help gursikhs and the sangat who are in need. And yes, I am not afraid to say this but we do seek guidance from them. They will always tell us to seek guidance from SGGS but they always listen and guide us. What message comes from Waheguru and Guru Nanak is the same message they give to us.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to paste a url here, but this is the website of the dera where you can read the background and history of Nirmal Kutiya. I would especially read the stories under 'publication'. The true accounts are amazing and truly inspiring. I am so thankful that to have been born into Sikhi and have the been put on the path by Waheguru to follow these wonderful Mahapuraks.

This is the url to the site. The particular link below is about Sant Baba Basant Singh JI.

http://www.nirmalkutiyajohalan.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=339&Itemid=102

sloku ]

salok.

Shalok:

sMq srin jo jnu prY so jnu auDrnhwr ]

sant saran jo jan parai so jan uDhranhaar.

One who seeks the Sanctuary of the Saints shall be saved.

sMq kI inMdw nwnkw bhuir bhuir Avqwr ]1]

sant kee nindaa naankaa bahur bahur avtaar. ||1||

One who slanders the Saints, O Nanak, shall be reincarnated over and over again. ||1||

AstpdI ]

asatpadee.

Ashtapadee:

sMq kY dUKin Awrjw GtY ]

sant kai dookhan aarjaa ghatai.

Slandering the Saints, one's life is cut short.

sMq kY dUKin jm qy nhI CutY ]

sant kai dookhan jam tay nahee chhutai.

Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death.

sMq kY dUKin suKu sBu jwie ]

sant kai dookhan sukh sabh jaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes.

sMq kY dUKin nrk mih pwie ]

sant kai dookhan narak meh paa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell.

sMq kY dUKin miq hoie mlIn ]

sant kai dookhan mat ho-ay maleen.

Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted.

sMq kY dUKin soBw qy hIn ]

sant kai dookhan sobhaa tay heen.

Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost.

sMq ky hqy kau rKY n koie ]

sant kay hatay ka-o rakhai na ko-ay.

One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved.

sMq kY dUKin Qwn BRstu hoie ]

sant kai dookhan thaan bharsat ho-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled.

sMq ik®pwl ik®pw jy krY ]

sant kirpaal kirpaa jay karai.

But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness,

nwnk sMqsMig inMdku BI qrY ]1]

naanak satsang nindak bhee tarai. ||1||

O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1||

sMq ky dUKn qy muKu BvY ]

sant kay dookhan tay mukh bhavai.

Slandering the Saints, one becomes a wry-faced malcontent.

sMqn kY dUKin kwg ijau lvY ]

santan kai dookhan kaag ji-o lavai.

Slandering the Saints, one croaks like a raven.

sMqn kY dUKin srp join pwie ]

santan kai dookhan sarap jon paa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a snake.

sMq kY dUKin iqRgd join ikrmwie ]

sant kai dookhan tarigad jon kirmaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a wiggling worm.

sMqn kY dUKin iqRsnw mih jlY ]

santan kai dookhan tarisnaa meh jalai.

Slandering the Saints, one burns in the fire of desire.

sMq kY dUKin sBu ko ClY ]

sant kai dookhan sabh ko chhalai.

Slandering the Saints, one tries to deceive everyone.

sMq kY dUKin qyju sBu jwie ]

sant kai dookhan tayj sabh jaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, all one's influence vanishes.

sMq kY dUKin nIcu nIcwie ]

sant kai dookhan neech neechaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one becomes the lowest of the low.

sMq doKI kw Qwau ko nwih ]

sant dokhee kaa thaa-o ko naahi.

For the slanderer of the Saint, there is no place of rest.

nwnk sMq BwvY qw Eie BI giq pwih ]2]

naanak sant bhaavai taa o-ay bhee gat paahi. ||2||

O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, even then, he may be saved. ||2||

[5ukhjinder5ingh]

In Guru Arjun Dev Ji's prayer Sukhmani Sahib, Guru Ji writes about the vitues of the company of Saddhus and Sants. I think it is Asthapadee13 Pauree 1-2. It writes about slandering Saints (see below). I know there are 'fake' babas, impostors out there but even so, we shouldn't slander them. Having said that, I might have just now lol

What I wanted to say is there are puran Mahapurush Sants out there. Myself and my family have been fortunate enough to follow and have the guidance of a line of puran brahm giani's from the Dera, Nirmal Kutia, Johalan. 108 Sant Baba Basant Singh Ji under the guidance of 108 Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji, Jian founded Nirmal Kutia. Sant Baba Basant Singh's apprentice was Sant Baba Gian Singh Ji, who was the Brahm Giani that I used to follow when I was a young boy. They used to travel the world and visit England in the late 70s right up into the early nineties. I was fortunate to be blessed by them and take amrit. I have been following that dera ever since, the current head Sant there is 108 Sant Baba Jeet Singh Ji. I just want to make it clear at no point do they see themselves as higher than SGGS Ji, they always tell us to pay our respects to SGGS first and then pay our respects to them. These brahm giani's are wonderful, powerful enlightened beings. They were sent by Waheguru to spread the word of Sikhi, to help gursikhs and the sangat who are in need. And yes, I am not afraid to say this but we do seek guidance from them. They will always tell us to seek guidance from SGGS but they always listen and guide us. What message comes from Waheguru and Guru Nanak is the same message they give to us.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to paste a url here, but this is the website of the dera where you can read the background and history of Nirmal Kutiya. I would especially read the stories under 'publication'. The true accounts are amazing and truly inspiring. I am so thankful that to have been born into Sikhi and have the been put on the path by Waheguru to follow these wonderful Mahapuraks.

This is the url to the site. The particular link below is about Sant Baba Basant Singh JI.

http://www.nirmalkutiyajohalan.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=339&Itemid=102

sloku ]

salok.

Shalok:

sMq srin jo jnu prY so jnu auDrnhwr ]

sant saran jo jan parai so jan uDhranhaar.

One who seeks the Sanctuary of the Saints shall be saved.

sMq kI inMdw nwnkw bhuir bhuir Avqwr ]1]

sant kee nindaa naankaa bahur bahur avtaar. ||1||

One who slanders the Saints, O Nanak, shall be reincarnated over and over again. ||1||

AstpdI ]

asatpadee.

Ashtapadee:

sMq kY dUKin Awrjw GtY ]

sant kai dookhan aarjaa ghatai.

Slandering the Saints, one's life is cut short.

sMq kY dUKin jm qy nhI CutY ]

sant kai dookhan jam tay nahee chhutai.

Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death.

sMq kY dUKin suKu sBu jwie ]

sant kai dookhan sukh sabh jaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes.

sMq kY dUKin nrk mih pwie ]

sant kai dookhan narak meh paa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell.

sMq kY dUKin miq hoie mlIn ]

sant kai dookhan mat ho-ay maleen.

Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted.

sMq kY dUKin soBw qy hIn ]

sant kai dookhan sobhaa tay heen.

Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost.

sMq ky hqy kau rKY n koie ]

sant kay hatay ka-o rakhai na ko-ay.

One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved.

sMq kY dUKin Qwn BRstu hoie ]

sant kai dookhan thaan bharsat ho-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled.

sMq ik®pwl ik®pw jy krY ]

sant kirpaal kirpaa jay karai.

But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness,

nwnk sMqsMig inMdku BI qrY ]1]

naanak satsang nindak bhee tarai. ||1||

O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1||

sMq ky dUKn qy muKu BvY ]

sant kay dookhan tay mukh bhavai.

Slandering the Saints, one becomes a wry-faced malcontent.

sMqn kY dUKin kwg ijau lvY ]

santan kai dookhan kaag ji-o lavai.

Slandering the Saints, one croaks like a raven.

sMqn kY dUKin srp join pwie ]

santan kai dookhan sarap jon paa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a snake.

sMq kY dUKin iqRgd join ikrmwie ]

sant kai dookhan tarigad jon kirmaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a wiggling worm.

sMqn kY dUKin iqRsnw mih jlY ]

santan kai dookhan tarisnaa meh jalai.

Slandering the Saints, one burns in the fire of desire.

sMq kY dUKin sBu ko ClY ]

sant kai dookhan sabh ko chhalai.

Slandering the Saints, one tries to deceive everyone.

sMq kY dUKin qyju sBu jwie ]

sant kai dookhan tayj sabh jaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, all one's influence vanishes.

sMq kY dUKin nIcu nIcwie ]

sant kai dookhan neech neechaa-ay.

Slandering the Saints, one becomes the lowest of the low.

sMq doKI kw Qwau ko nwih ]

sant dokhee kaa thaa-o ko naahi.

For the slanderer of the Saint, there is no place of rest.

nwnk sMq BwvY qw Eie BI giq pwih ]2]

naanak sant bhaavai taa o-ay bhee gat paahi. ||2||

O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, even then, he may be saved. ||2||

I just like to add, in case some of the sangat wanted to know more about 'What is a Brahm Giani?'. The link below explains it really well. Thanks. WKK WKF

http://www.satnaam.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=0