Say no to Guru's pictures

[GPS]

Mere Veero - Paapi and GPS - one cannot be hateful and spiritual at the same time .

Tapat karaha bujh geyo , gur seetal name deyo - Smoldering claudron has now gotten cool , with the grace of guru's name.

We need to work at our own individual avastha before calling others names .....

What works for me is when I see krodh emergin in my heart - I start to sing "Gur Ramdaas Rakho Sernayi"

Once we start living Bani ... life becomes an ocean of sweetness.

Mithat Neevin Naanka Gun Changiyaya Tat ....

and

Khama vekhoone khap gaye , khoohan lakh asankh ..

May guru bless your heart with love and peace. Guru Fateh.

Mere veer

Khalsa is not disciple of Mahatama Gandhi.Khalsa follows Guru Gobind singh ji and fights back in self defence. Read all the posts and you will be able to see that ours was a reactive response.What i wrote about missionaries is a fact and the need of the hour is to expose their harmful designs. It is our duty and we owe it our spiritual father Guru Gobind singh whose bani they reject and yet call them sikhs.

Coming to pictures Of Guru sahibans, it is part and parcel of sikh history as they aid us to know Guru sahib's lives.They help children to understand sikhi in an easy way.That is why we have Frescoes in our historic Gurudawars.There is a big difference between artistic representation and idolatry.A sikh shuns idol worship.He/she need not to be delivered sermons.

[S4NGH]

How do we know that the paintings we have look anything like our Guru Sahib? An artist creates a painting based on his/her likes/dislikes, precedent influences...etc and so its an impression unlike a photograph. So if picasso created a painting saying it was of Guru Sahib in his cubist or surrealist style, would we also respect that?

Theres a few paintings that have been posted on here saying that the artist had actually painted Guru Sahib in person. The paints have no distinct features of a person. Yes theres ears and eyes and a nose and legs and feet and hands but there all out of proportion- so are we saying this is how our Guru Sahib was?

If it was a photo- ok...its a genuine portrait but these are paintings! Most of them by amateur painters. Theres no likeness to reality.

[VanHelsingh]

How do we know that the paintings we have look anything like our Guru Sahib? An artist creates a painting based on his/her likes/dislikes, precedent influences...etc and so its an impression unlike a photograph. So if picasso created a painting saying it was of Guru Sahib in his cubist or surrealist style, would we also respect that?

Theres a few paintings that have been posted on here saying that the artist had actually painted Guru Sahib in person. The paints have no distinct features of a person. Yes theres ears and eyes and a nose and legs and feet and hands but there all out of proportion- so are we saying this is how our Guru Sahib was?

If it was a photo- ok...its a genuine portrait but these are paintings! Most of them by amateur painters. Theres no likeness to reality.

I think people that do bow to photos of Guru Sahibs (I don't bow, but I do have pictures of Guru Sahibs in my house because I like them) aren't lowering their heads to a particular accuracy of likeness, but more about what the likeness represents in terms of everything Guru Sahibs were and stood for. At least I hope that's how they see things. I'd hate to think someone is waving some toof in-front of a picture of our Gurus, because just no better than idol worship. Isn't it?

[luckysingh99]

The pictures or artist's impressions we have are pretty accurate and good.

Yes, they may have the nose and cheekbones wrong or many other small factors, but at the end of the day we can tell the difference between Guru Nanak ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji !

Ask anyone who has had darshan and they will tell you 'how else would have they known who they saw ? and that the paintings and pictures are good enough for all of us'.

Me personally, I would be a little lost if I had NO idea what they looked like !

and the proportions you mention of hand and feet may be completely wrong, but does that matter ???

If and when you have darshan, are you going to say ''your hands and lips are different to the pictures!!''

How do we know that the paintings we have look anything like our Guru Sahib? An artist creates a painting based on his/her likes/dislikes, precedent influences...etc and so its an impression unlike a photograph. So if picasso created a painting saying it was of Guru Sahib in his cubist or surrealist style, would we also respect that?
Theres a few paintings that have been posted on here saying that the artist had actually painted Guru Sahib in person. The paints have no distinct features of a person. Yes theres ears and eyes and a nose and legs and feet and hands but there all out of proportion- so are we saying this is how our Guru Sahib was?
If it was a photo- ok...its a genuine portrait but these are paintings! Most of them by amateur painters. Theres no likeness to reality.

[S4NGH]

I think people that do bow to photos of Guru Sahibs (I don't bow, but I do have pictures of Guru Sahibs in my house because I like them) aren't lowering their heads to a particular accuracy of likeness, but more about what the likeness represents in terms of everything Guru Sahibs were and stood for. At least I hope that's how they see things. I'd hate to think someone is waving some toof in-front of a picture of our Gurus, because just no better than idol worship. Isn't it?

Veerji I agree with that and very nicely said. But people do bow to these paintings and do the whole toof bati etc to them. In our Gurdwara Sahibs we have these paintings up in Darbar Sahibs so how can we condone these blind rituals? Why do we need a painting to help us focus as some have said when we have Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj sampuran satguru right in front of us?

[S4NGH]

The pictures or artist's impressions we have are pretty accurate and good.

Yes, they may have the nose and cheekbones wrong or many other small factors, but at the end of the day we can tell the difference between Guru Nanak ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji !

Ask anyone who has had darshan and they will tell you 'how else would have they known who they saw ? and that the paintings and pictures are good enough for all of us'.

Me personally, I would be a little lost if I had NO idea what they looked like !

and the proportions you mention of hand and feet may be completely wrong, but does that matter ???

If and when you have darshan, are you going to say ''your hands and lips are different to the pictures!!''

How can you say they're pretty good and accurate? Accurate- I cant comment on since iv never had darshan but good? From an art perspective...I would disagree. Look at classical portraits of kings and queens, compare them, can you see the difference between good and bad art?

You can tell the difference between the portraits because of the different characteristics or things shown in the paintings. Doesnt mean they're a true representation.

How do we know that when you have darshan that the darshan are not what you want to see?

Yes the proportions matter because the paintings are completely wrong! Look show one of those paintings to a professional and see what he has to say.

Haha the last bit made me laugh.

Ps. I am not commenting on the depictions but the paintings and the art itself. It has no true likeness. And from an art perspective, they're clearly by amateur painters.

Pul chuk muaf ji. No intention of hurting anyones sentiments.

[luckysingh99]

I don't like to criticize the artists and painters as I am no artist myself.

The way I see it, is that they have done us a service by giving their depiction to us.

I appreciate them and don't look for negativities, yes there are certain one's I prefer over others, but I am not worshipping them or treating them as idols !!

The point to remember is that idol worship is condemned when it is ''blind'' faith.

If the picture, helps me to focus and say waheguru and what the guru stood for, then that is NOT blind worship. It is simply an aid and a reminder to help focus.

I really don't want to continue trying to explain this as many other members have already explained this quite well in previous posts !

How can you say they're pretty good and accurate?

Ps. I am not commenting on the depictions but the paintings and the art itself. It has no true likeness. And from an art perspective, they're clearly by amateur painters.
Pul chuk muaf ji. No intention of hurting anyones sentiments.

what do you want with ''true likeness'' ???

You want passport like quality for ID ???

[S4NGH]

I don't like to criticize the artists and painters as I am no artist myself.

The way I see it, is that they have done us a service by giving their depiction to us.

I appreciate them and don't look for negativities, yes there are certain one's I prefer over others, but I am not worshipping them or treating them as idols !!

The point to remember is that idol worship is condemned when it is ''blind'' faith.

If the picture, helps me to focus and say waheguru and what the guru stood for, then that is NOT blind worship. It is simply an aid and a reminder to help focus.

I really don't want to continue trying to explain this as many other members have already explained this quite well in previous posts !

what do you want with ''true likeness'' ???

You want passport like quality for ID ???

My arguement was never against you or your thinking. Totally agree with it. What I was arguing against is the belief that these paintings are depictions of Guru Sahib themself and therefore worthy of worship.

Think you got the wrong end of the stick.

[luckysingh99]

My arguement was never against you or your thinking. Totally agree with it. What I was arguing against is the belief that these paintings are depictions of Guru Sahib themself and therefore worthy of worship.

Think you got the wrong end of the stick.

I'm sorry ji !!

I can see where you are coming from and I can understand !

[GPS]

Nobody wrote that worship pictures. Gurbani message is very clear on this. Guru sahib writes that just by seeing Guru is not going you deliverance unless you contemplate upon shabad.

​There is a difference between artistic representation and idolatry. I am sure there were artists existing that time as they are existing now. We have Frescoes in all our historic Gurudawras. They are an aid to bring Guru sahib to our mind and to draw an inspiration from their lives.