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What Is Wrong With Sikhs/muslims In Uk?


Guest Canadian Sikh

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Guest Canadian Sikh

I am a Sikh born and raised in Canada. A lot of my good friends are Muslim, and I've never had a problem with any of them. So it was really surprising for me to hear that the Sikh and Muslim communities in the UK do not get on well at all. Why is this? In Canada, we hang out together, listen to Punjabi music together and respect one another. Instead of being divided among religious lines, we are united by our common "desiness" i.e. our cultures are really similar/the same, eat the same food, same language (or very similar), same music etc... And I have heard people say that it is because Muslims vastly outnumber Sikhs in the UK and so have now turned on them, but the truth is that in Canada, Sikhs are 1.4% of the population, Muslims are 3.2%. They'res 2.5 times more Muslims in Canada than Sikhs. So what could it be?

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Guest CanadianSikh

I just wanna say, are the girls who are getting converted to islam really SIkh? Like how many of them know the names of the 10 Gurus, the 3 pillars of SIkhi? How many of them know the mool mantar (something every Sikh should know off the top of their head)? How many of them have ever even read Japji Sahib? Are these girls real Sikhs, or just Punjabi girls who go to Gurdwara every once in a while, but are atheist at heart?

PS: I know 5 Muslim-SIkh marriages. 3 were Sikh guy-Muslim girl, 2 were Sikh girl-Muslim guy. In the case of Sikh guy-Muslim girl, in 2 cases, the kids turned out to be Sikhs, in the other case, the kids are not religious at all. In both Muslim guy-Sikh girl cases, the kids turned out to be atheists. In both cases, the "Sikh" girl was only Sikh by name, but in reality, was more atheist than anything else. If Muslims think that by marrying SIkh girls that their kids are going to turn out to be Islamic, they're vastly mistaken. When you grow up in a Judeo-Christian culture, are exposed to western freedoms, and one of your own parents ain't even a Muslim (even if the girls convert, I dout they're actually Muslim at heart), then of course the kids aren't going to be Islamic.

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I just wanna say, are the girls who are getting converted to islam really SIkh? Like how many of them know the names of the 10 Gurus, the 3 pillars of SIkhi? How many of them know the mool mantar (something every Sikh should know off the top of their head)? How many of them have ever even read Japji Sahib? Are these girls real Sikhs, or just Punjabi girls who go to Gurdwara every once in a while, but are atheist at heart?

PS: I know 5 Muslim-SIkh marriages. 3 were Sikh guy-Muslim girl, 2 were Sikh girl-Muslim guy. In the case of Sikh guy-Muslim girl, in 2 cases, the kids turned out to be Sikhs, in the other case, the kids are not religious at all. In both Muslim guy-Sikh girl cases, the kids turned out to be atheists. In both cases, the "Sikh" girl was only Sikh by name, but in reality, was more atheist than anything else. If Muslims think that by marrying SIkh girls that their kids are going to turn out to be Islamic, they're vastly mistaken. When you grow up in a Judeo-Christian culture, are exposed to western freedoms, and one of your own parents ain't even a Muslim (even if the girls convert, I dout they're actually Muslim at heart), then of course the kids aren't going to be Islamic.

These 5 marriages you talk about are they all in canada, the pakistanis in the uk or so call muslims are grooming young girls/children for sex and prostitution they trick these girls into believing they are having a relationship with them, then they betray that trust, so that is why in the uk no one not only sikhs but other groups dont trusts muslims/pakistanis.

Those of us who know are sikh history know that even during the times of Guru Gobind Singh JI they swore on the koran and lied ( was told this as a child by my grandmother many many years ago about how they lied to Guru sahib ji kind of stuck with me).

Personally i dont trust any of them or not so that i would form a close friendship with them or have them in my home, but i would not insult or trouble them either, its a case of live and let live, if you are friendly with them then good luck, just be careful play with fire and you may get burnt, never trust them around your women folk thats for sure!! Where in canada are you.

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The grooming issue is slowly appearing in canada as well, I heard of a couple of cases of punjabi girls in Vancouver and Surrey with Pakistani boyfriends who then tried to get these girls to sleep with other Pakistani men..or just used them then dumped them. Your right though..I dont define the girls as "Sikh" the majority just use the label Sikh because theyre born into Sikh families they dont have any knowledge or pride in the identity or history. But then I again i also know of girls from apaprently well respected Sikh families who have got themselves into these dort of situations..the integrity of a family doesnt mean their children are good however,...

As above posts say..you dont have enough Pakistanis in Canada yet to cause issues, wait till theyre poplualtion increases, research "al-taqqiya" it means Muslims are allowed under Islam to lie to and decieve to non-muslims on the pretext of furthering Islam.

You might think theyre harmless and they are your friends now..wait and see how it turns out. UK communities dont say these things because theyre racist, it's because over the years they have seen and experienced a lot of issues, and continue to do so today. Learn from the experience of the UK sangat and keep yuor gaurd up educate the youth before it's too late

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I am a Sikh born and raised in Canada. A lot of my good friends are Muslim, and I've never had a problem with any of them. So it was really surprising for me to hear that the Sikh and Muslim communities in the UK do not get on well at all. Why is this? In Canada, we hang out together, listen to Punjabi music together and respect one another. Instead of being divided among religious lines, we are united by our common "desiness" i.e. our cultures are really similar/the same, eat the same food, same language (or very similar), same music etc... And I have heard people say that it is because Muslims vastly outnumber Sikhs in the UK and so have now turned on them, but the truth is that in Canada, Sikhs are 1.4% of the population, Muslims are 3.2%. They'res 2.5 times more Muslims in Canada than Sikhs. So what could it be?

Knowing both Canada and the UK well I feel I am well placed to answer your query. The answer, basically, boils down to differences in types of 'Pakistanis' and differences in society norms per se. In no particular order, these are the reasons :

1) Pakistanis in Canada are overwhelmingly Punjabi. Pakistanis in England are overwhelmingly Mirpuri. The Mirpuris are known as 'junglees' in Pakistan itself as they are seen as backward and criminals. In normal circumstances, even Pakistani Punjabis don't like to associate themselves with them.

2) In Canada, a youth born to Pakistani parents and a youth born to Sikh parents find a common ground in that they rally around the Maple Leaf. Their 'Canadianess' unites them. That is not how things work in the old world. In the old world nationalism and patriotism is akin to facism. Thus neither muslim youth born in Britain nor Sikh youth born in Britain have anything to unite them under the British flag. Having been to nagar kirtans in Canada that is actually a fundamental difference between our two diasporas. Whilst the Canadian flag is given pride of place among Canadian Sikhs the British Sikhs never allow the British flag to have any place let alone pride of place. The only flag that matters is our national flag ; The Khanda. In fact, during nagar kirtans in many British cities the city officials have offical ceremonies where they lower the British flag from city hall and hoist the Khanda instead for the day as a mark of the khanda's supremecy.

3) Both the American adminstration and world authority at large recognise that the UK has probably more al-quaida sympathisers than anywhere else in the world. London is the acknowleged world centre of extreme islamic thought. It is a society where 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation British Pakistanis are far far more Islamic than their parents and grandparents. It is a society where the children of Pakistani immigrants force and coerce their mothers to cover themselves up with the veil. Similarly, 2nd,3rd and 4th generation British born Sikhs are far more likely to know more about Sikhism and display Sikh pride and be Khalistani than their Indian born parents and grandparents. This kind of dynamic is not present in Canada,

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Guest Anoni

Those who are saying these girls aren't real sikhs...did you know /or do you know everything about sikhi? Were you born to know mool mantar? Who are you to judge someones level of pyaar for waheguru, that's what you call haumaii / hunkar... (I know a few girls and lots of them come from amritdhari families)...and you know what, when these girls come back they are told to do so much paath /seva it would surprise you (most of them do it)..read kanika's sakhi..she didn't even know what ram meant at the beginning she had so much pyaar she became a sant..it's this exclusive mentality going around in the sikh community that is making youth feel ostracised and therefore they seek a sense of belonging from another community...you need to take responsibility of what's happening to your community/sangat cus let's be frank it's not an isolated issue in uk...from corrupt committees in Gurdwareh to exclusive 'I'm a proper sikh because I have a dastar' cliques need to be sorted..its isolating and disengaging youth...I have a benti..rather than saying these girls aren't proper sikhs to make yourself feel better...why don't you reach out to local youth that you don't assume are proper sikhs and show them how beautiful it is...go and vigil outside these girls houses cus they're scared someone is going to shoot their parents...go and do some counselling with the girls families and see if theyre "real sikhs" ...

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@Sat: I live in the lower mainland BC, but only moved here a few years ago. Grew up in the Greater Toronto Area. I've known like 4 Punjabi girls in my entire life who have gone out with a Muslim. But Muslim girls go out with Sikh guys quite a bit over here.

To be fair, a lot of "Sikh" guys in Canada aren't that great either. They sleep drink, do drugs, sleep around with Punjabi girls, pass them on to their friends etc... If I didn't know any better, I'd say that Punjabi girls DO get groomed in Canada, just not by Muslims, but by our own guys.

PS: So if it is such a big problem there, how do we prevent it happening here? Muslims here are pretty well-behaved, no one is going to believe it if you tell them that they're going to become worse as their numbers grow. Also, there's no way that the Canadian government would stop Pakistani immigration, out of fear of being called "racists". So what are we supposed to do?

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The Mirpuri's speak there own dialect of Punjabi and think that Sikh Punjabi's and all non-Muslims are inferior as the Quran says. Plus the fact that most Mirpuri's are Hindu Punjabi converts from mainly the Jatt, Rajput and Gujjar castes means these Mirpuri Pakistani Muslims try to prove how Muslim they are by converting and grooming non-Muslim girls even more than the Qureshi and Mughal castes which have been Muslim for longer.

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Guest Gkaur

My cousin from canada also goes on and on about multi culturalism in canada too whilst patronizing the UK- she also tells me about how mixed marriages are completely acceptable there... Its horrible how the muslims act in the UK and how some thing are however I am very pleased about our attitude to mixed marriages and our culture of keeping Sikhi alive! If we were all like the Canadians- where would Sikhi be in 50years???

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My cousin from canada also goes on and on about multi culturalism in canada too whilst patronizing the UK- she also tells me about how mixed marriages are completely acceptable there... Its horrible how the muslims act in the UK and how some thing are however I am very pleased about our attitude to mixed marriages and our culture of keeping Sikhi alive! If we were all like the Canadians- where would Sikhi be in 50years???

I've said the same thing here many many times. Our UK problem with muslims is tiny in comparison with the number of Sikhs in Canada marrying Christians, becoming Christians and raising their children as Christians, Tiny !

The difference is that we care whereas they don't. We take to the streets at a moments notice whereas they don't.

In the same vein...having lived in Canada...the most visible difference is the way that in Canada the 'Sikh rights' 'Khalistan' game is almost solely the reserve of the old men. In the UK the opposite is true. It is the young 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation British born Sikhs who are always at the forefront of demonstrations etc. Things happen in Canada that would never be tolerated here. The only thing that unites us is Sikhi. Other than that we are world's apart in outlook and society norms.

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Nothing is wrong.

Muslims are doing just fine in U.K!

What you'll get here in this forum are bunch of ghetto youth exaggerating everything...Both communities have 'ganday andays' (rotten eggs) who cause trouble...but other than that, Muslims and Sikhs at large just live their lives fine....

[Mod Note] Lies will not be tolerated on SikhSangat.com. Please provide any news article references. Just because you're not in QC, it doesn't mean you can blindly post baseless claims.

We know how to deal with the problem without crying about it on internet...

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    • glad we can agree on that but I don't think it is too nirmala influenced (I am not a taksali by no means) other than what I mentioned bout the akhand paaths etc. (same goes for sant samajis) I think I talked bout taksal in another thread, but modern day Taksal would be puratan version of nirmalas back when they were panthic scholars being the forefront of parchar as Taksal was originally indistinguishable from Tarna Dal/nihang singhs  maybe we can open a seperate thread on how influenced do you think many of the sants of 20th century by nirmalas (IMO more than taksal itself) because that is something I find weird  also I think you are responding to former much earlier replies of mine I just noticed 
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    • sorry did not mean to reduce the language of farsi to being merely worldy, but that was the primary role of it back in the day and why bhai mehta kalu ji ordered his son to learn it on advice of rai bular who gauranteed his recommendation for guru nanak getting a sarkari job 
    • like I said, yes both are optimal  but vedic literature should be more prioritized and be the prerequisite (as was the case with guru nanak dev ji or other guru sahiban who first learned sanskrit before moving on to a madrasa) (you don't run before you learn to crawl)  farsi has always been considered foreign language and as beautiful it may be, it still isn't as much of a reference in gurbani as vedas/puranas/devtas/nirgun sargun/yugas/karma/reincarnation/the primal sound/kalki avtar (I forgot what nihangs called it) especially in sggs  mind you bachitar natak, and of course tons of more dasam bani still draws stories of charitar pakhyan from puranas, and guru sahib did a whole katha on the avatars of vishnu  and like I have said before, in this day than never, we aren't as aware of the historical references behind much of gurbani as much as our predecessors so often many of us confuse dasam bani to be an infusion of vedic mat so we need to be a bit more literate of vedic mat to be able to differentiate between that and sikhi when reading bani   I don't want to belittle any specific school of thought, but abrahamic ideology is also much more linear and simple compared to sikhi so trying to understand sikhi through western lenses is a much more difficult task compared to a hindu looking at sikhi and recognizing many gurmat principles such as meditation, connecting with paarbrahm, langar, karma (although westerners also believe in deeds being a large part of judgement in parlok) etc. 
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