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Eating Jhoot Of Spouse?


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amansingh said Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?

Kullykhalsa,

You surprise me that you ticked like this comment in the above post, nindiya of mahapurkhs, i am surprised bro !

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Jhoot is there everywhere.... You drink milk which is a Jhootan of calf. Yoy drink water which is jhootan of aquatic animal. When you were in th womb of your mother, you were actually eating her

Shabash pa ji shabash. I am sure that our Guru Sahibs, who taught us to be the dust of the feet of all, who taught us that it is better to eat with the poor and righteous than eat with the rich and gr

If u love to argue hana and do kintu on rehat do so but don't go to me and my belifs okay! I'm sick of all you lot doing this, "this rehets wrong!" "This banis wrong!" Etcetc! Just leave us alone, if

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's funny how Amritdharis who at one side, because they have taken amrit, among other things, have promised to treat all humans the same way. At the other side they think it is okay to share food with one group of people and not another.
You don't take amrit and then become a good person. You become a good person and then take amrit. It's a journey of development. The concept of jhoota food has most likely been borrowed from the brahmins. It is a Hindu concept and has (unfortunately) seeped into Sikhi like so many other Hindu concepts.
The concept of jhooth goes against the basic principles of langar. Langar represents togetherness and equality. Jhoot is egotistical. There is no way it can fit in with Sikhi ideals as it means you are separating yourself from those around you.
What about milk? It is from cow udders. Is that not jhoot? What about honey? It is regurgitated by bees (it means it has been vomitted out by them), is that not jhoot? There are coffee beans that are extracted from animal feces, I have seen Amritdharis drink coffee before, is that not jhoot?
Shri Hazur Sahib does not allow women to do seva. Despite the fact that Sikh women have led armies into battle and Guru Amardas Ji gave women control of 52 out of the 146 Piris he established. At Harmandir Sahib, they can't do Kirtan because of their menstrual cycles, this despite the fact that our Gurus shattered the myth that women are dirty or any less capable of realizing God than men, after Guru Nanak reminded the world that kings may be powerful, but they are still born to women. Sad that the followers of Guru Nanak by and large ignore his message today.

Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?

The bottom line is this: despite anything the Panj Pyare, Akal Takht or anyone else may say, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is without contention the highest authority in the Sikh religion. "Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth." This idea of "jhoot", that one group of religious people is cleaner than another goes against everything taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our ONLY Guru, our eternal guide. So unless there is a scientific reason backed up by tangible evidence that Amritdharis are cleaner than non-Amritdharis, I am not buying it. I don't know why you brought sants/bhramgianis up anyways, all of our Gurus warned us to be wary of them, that we shouldn't follow them blindly, or do anything they say without a good reason. I follow no sant and no bhramgiani, nor do I care about what they have to say. I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has the same message, the same light of the 10 Nanaks that came before it. Where does your loyalty lie? With sants/bhramgianis, or with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj?

EDIT: Before someone decides to blow that last bit out of proportion, I want to make it clear that I respect both Akal Takht and the Panj Pyare, both entities were established for a reason and do have power within the faith, but they ARE NOT more important than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor do they have greater authority than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji within Sikhi. Anything Akal Takht or the Panj Pyare says needs to be put to the test against Gurbani, neither one has the right to issue hukams that go against the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in any way, shape or form.

:no: Savinderpal stop arguing / wasting you time with a nindak of sants, boycott this person and his views, by his comment above he has destroyed his own respect here.

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amansingh said Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?

Kullykhalsa,

You surprise me that you ticked like this comment in the above post, nindiya of mahapurkhs, i am surprised bro!

I think what amansingh was trying to get at was the fact so many people follow sants/brahmgianis etc when more often then not they are not what the claim to be. Now i am not saying that there are no sants or Bhramgianis but what aman refers to is that we do not need these people as we have the ultimate guide in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. For example i know a lot of people who follow sants and dera's etc and these people would say the same as you no point saving people who do nindiya of mahapurakhs, we need to learn for ourselves and start becoming real sikhs (leaders, brave, courageous not sheep). Now i dont think Aman was doing nindiya of mahapurakhs in fact what he was doing was opening your eyes to the fact that for every Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji there are another 4/5 con artists.

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I think what amansingh was trying to get at was the fact so many people follow sants/brahmgianis etc when more often then not they are not what the claim to be. Now i am not saying that there are no sants or Bhramgianis but what aman refers to is that we do not need these people as we have the ultimate guide in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. For example i know a lot of people who follow sants and dera's etc and these people would say the same as you no point saving people who do nindiya of mahapurakhs, we need to learn for ourselves and start becoming real sikhs (leaders, brave, courageous not sheep). Now i dont think Aman was doing nindiya of mahapurakhs in fact what he was doing was opening your eyes to the fact that for every Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji there are another 4/5 con artists.

Yes but he used the term any and said nothing about con artists, as for opening my eyes or any other persons could have put it better, nindiya is nindiya and when the term any is used it includes sant baba thakur singh ji etc.

I for one dont know this newbie but his comment is bang out of order!

He even said brahmgyanis WOW :no: !!!

How can a bahmgyani be a con artists the two can never add up ??

He never says fakes he says any meaning all, he can twist or change it but he has screwed up!

I for one have boycotted this foolish nindak boy until / if he apologises for his comments otherwise nindak can and will go to hell

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"Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?"


Did you miss the bold part? I'm not saying they are all bad, but in my experiences, most are only out to take advantage of uneducated gullible people who don't know any better.


And I am not apologizing for anything, because as far as sants/bhramgianis are concerned, there are 2 types:


a) Those who live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they have my respect, but instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge.


b) Those who DO NOT live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they DO NOT have my respect, and instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge.


Nowhere in my post did I say that they are all bad or all good for nothing. I do not follow brahmgianis, the honest ones have my respect, but at the end of the day, I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.
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He even said brahmgyanis WOW :no: !!!

How can a bahmgyani be a con artists the two can never add up ??

I for one have boycotted this foolish boy until / if he apologises for his comments otherwise nindak can and will go to hell

Oh come on man, do you think everyone who claims to be a Brahmgiani/ gets labelled a Bhramgiani by other people actually is one? Do you believe every Baba who says he can tell you about your past lives and what will happen in your future?

Yes, there are some people out there who are deserving of the title "Brahmgiani", but they are in the minority, for every true Bhrahmgiani out there, there's at least 4-5 fake ones looking to take advantage of other people.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jio, this question should probably be addressed to the Punj Pyare, not a forum. They are the ones who will give you your Rehat and you can ask questions. Go and ask and they will guide you. Here, every person may have a different opinion.

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Well arent the Panj Pyare just people and as such wont they just have differing opinions as well ....hence the major differences in our panth currently when we have so many different panj pyare giving out different "types" of amrit and different advice.

You should ask your question here forums a place to bounce ideas and different interpretations so that the end user (o.p) gets a wide range of advice and he picks whatever makes more sense to him surely!

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Well waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Daas thinks he is late into the party but wanted to say to amansingh and kullykhalsa that guru sahib ji says a person who eats without praying is equal to a dog eating from dustbins so would u like to have food with him/her.. kindly tell me plz :)

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Punj Pyare are not "just people". When the selection of the Punj Pyare is done according to Gurmat, the Sangat has a say in who will do the seva (and oppose those who are not fitting). Those selected for seva are then again interviewed to ensure they meet a high level of Gursikhi standards of life and Rehat. After this, there is an Ardaas done to ask for Akaal Purakh's blessings to do Kirpa. A lot of spiritual forces are at work well beyond the individual sevadaars in the Punj Pyare. People have had revelations, unlocked their full potential for spirituality and had darshan of Guru Sahib in Amrit Sanchars - it is not trivial. All Panthic Jathebandis, despite minor variations/perspectives on Rehat, comply with the bare minimums of what the Panthic Rehat Maryada says in spirit/form. The Panthic Maryada has clearly outlined that eating Jhooth from a non-amritdhari is a transgression. A married couple engage in activities well in excess of merely eating each other's Jhooth.

Of course, you could always do Khoj of Gurbani about Nirgurae and see what Guru Sahib has to say. Then apply this concept to yourself - if Guru Sahib has stated that the very name of a Nirgura is bad, then would keeping Sangat of that person be good, much less marriage? There is a reason why the Granthis of old would refuse to perform an Anand Karaj unless both the bride and groom were Amritdhari.

To the original poster, please think long and hard about the decision you are about to make and see what is more dear to you - Sikhi or your future spouse. Because unless both come together (Sikhi and spouse), you may face challenges in the future with you wanting to progress in Sikhi and your spouse wanting to go elsewhere.

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I cannot believe how a simple question from a fellow brother/sister has spiraled into an egomaniac conversation of wanting to my right. Can we not just agree to disagree if we have different opinions and do Ardas for each and ourselves that we understand the real meaning, to try and become Nirmal, without ego?

Whilst on this topic of being puratan rehat etc, can anyone show me proof if the first 5 panj pyares wifes in Guru Gobinds Singh Ji's times took Amrit as well. So far I have not been able to come up with any facts for it......

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The western way of thinking cannot comprehend the concept of jhoot. That is why in western languages the don't have a word for jhoot. At best they use the term 'left over' but even that does not fully describe jhoot.

Amritdharis eating only from Amritdharis is an age old tradition of the Sikhs. In a way this Rehit insured the safety of the Sikhs during the olden times when Sikhs were living in jugles and could not come out in the open because there was a reward on the heads of the Sikhs. So Sikhs could not trust the Hindus and Muslims for fear of their food being poisoned and the culprit handing them over for a reward. So Sikhs at the time could only trust fellow Sikhs and Sikhs only ate food prepared by fellow Sikhs.

I myself do not keep this rehit yet, but I dare not tear it down. There are many Jathabandis/Sampradhas all following their own rehits with minor differences. But they all have some Sidhaants that are common to all. The Sidhaant of not eating jooth is common in all of them. Even the SGPC maryadha which is arguably the easiest rehit to follow says not to eat jhooth of a non Amritdhari. But the level of adherence amongst Amritdharis(like me) is very low and the result even most Amritdharis have abandoned this Rehit of the Sikhs just as most have abandoned Amritvela and almost all Amritdhari Sikh Bibis have abandoned covering of the head.

May Guru Jee give us the Bal, Buddhi and Samratha to follow these disappearing Rehits. Today these Rehits are so rarely observed that now even Sikhs are arguing about their validity. Vaheguru

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It's fact food made by people contain certain energy be it positive or negative..so there is no issue avoiding jhoot if one can sense negative energy, or get negative vibe at their certain stage in their life. At advance stages, since shabad/gyan takes over the surti 24/7 effects of these things cease to exist as one consciousness and awareness is in higher dimension.
Now to make a rigid rule out of this to avoid jhoot food from non amridhari in all circumstances(contary to bibek buddhi) is more less an bhramin vaad karam kaand act, has no merits in itself. It does not hold water at all as we soley looking at the external qualities of individual make assumption and pre conditioning our mind, get pre conceived notions in our head. Lot of youth amritdharis have blown this jhoot concept out of proportion, wrap their head around it which has turned into road block in their personal sikh spiritual journey as they live in fear(wrathful christian vahiguroo sitting in the sky waiting to whipping the hell out of people) and always paranoid all the time. I am not doing any khandan of anything as i support avoiding jhoot rehit at beginning stages or as an aid,..i m rather looking at the perception of individuals and state of youths these day, christian type of fear mongering is unbelievable in the panth and those who advocate it always forget to mention inner rehit aspect when they flaunt - rehit pyare mujkho sikh pyara nahi ..how bloody convenient..!!
But i don't blame innocent youths either its just bound to happen regardless as these things are not clarified by our parcharikhs to begin with it. I understand parcharikhs suitation too they get family to feed back home so they will tell people/ public what they want to hear as if they start becoming brutally honest start explaining multi dimensional sikhi/advance perception sikhi in public, they will be misinterpreted so they fear retribution from aurenzeb type shariapanthis/katarpanthis,other right wing groups who understand only black and white notions, always paranoid/insecure, edgy, always ready to demonize people.
All levels of bibek regarding suchum are explained properly to students in taksal, nirmale orders.

Amritdharis eating only from Amritdharis is an age old tradition of the Sikhs. In a way this Rehit insured the safety of the Sikhs during the olden times when Sikhs were living in jugles and could not come out in the open because there was a reward on the heads of the Sikhs. So Sikhs could not trust the Hindus and Muslims for fear of their food being poisoned and the culprit handing them over for a reward. So Sikhs at the time could only trust fellow Sikhs and Sikhs only ate food prepared by fellow Sikhs.

That make perfect sense, sarbloh bibek is also an old tradition of sikhs for this same very reason. We are here in the west, we don't have to be that parnioad. I don't understand how people do even have time to think about all this when they supposed to self enquiry in inner mind/vichar/bairaag all the time as part of their inner rehit?
May Guru Jee give us the Bal, Buddhi and Samratha to follow these disappearing Rehits. Today these Rehits are so rarely observed that now even Sikhs are arguing about their validity. Vaheguru
True. I also wish guru maharaj give us bal, buddhi and samratha to follow disappearing inner rehit such as - amritvela, sat, santokh, dya, gyan, dharam, mokh icha, advait, vichaar, naam dhyan, samadhi..these are backbone inner rehit of gursikh without them outer/externally sikh is empty shell.
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Cautionary Warning by Dashmesh ji.

ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਫੋਕਟ ਜਾਨ ॥ ਸਭ ਧਰਮ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਮਾਨ ॥

सभ करम फोकट जान ॥ सभ धरम निहफल मान ॥
Know all the Karmas (actions) as useless, consider all the religious paths of no value.

ਬਿਨ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰ ॥ ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਭਰਮ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੨੦॥੫੦॥
बिन एक नाम अधार ॥ सभ करम भरम बिचार ॥२०॥५०॥
Without the prop of the only Name of the Lord, all the Karmas be considered as illusion.20.50. (Sri akaal ustat sahib)

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Rehat can only be complete if the teachings of SGGS ji are followed firstly, i believe the jhoot concept applies more to eating with patit's like alcohol/smokers/drug users etc, to say your wife or children etc (if not amritdhari) is a bit extreme, but then it depends if they eat meat (as most amritdharis are told to not eat meat at their amrit sanchar), so this has to be looked at on an individual level, most amritdharis find it easier not to eat any jhoot (this is what i do) so as to avoid personal complications i.e have i committed a kurehat etc . These are my views only you may or may not agree, like i said its how we apply it to our individual situation / life and Guru ji is the final judge.

Another point to note is Grist jeevan (family life ) has a high status in sikhi, so to upset your family by not for example dining with them or refusing to eat food they have cooked etc in my view is a no no too, except if it is obviously non veg or alcohol based or contaminated if you are amritdhari.

We are all at different levels on this path, so to say one is right or another is wrong etc is of no use and such arguments should be avoided.

I do agree with N30singh, that all these scare tactics or damned to hell etc, should not be taken seriously.

Our Guru ji is all forgiving if we do make a minor mistake.

Most major kurehats as far as i am concerned occur in the mind in our thoughts (vaheguru), thats what really frightens me and thats what we should all be focusing on to clean first and then the rest will fall into place, but only by Guru ji,s grace and mercy, which is what we ask for in our ardas.

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