Mool Mantar Debate Ended

[singh598]

Sant Giani Hari Singh Randavawale have done a recording on mool mantra "controversy" They found:

Upto Hosi Bhi Sach on Baba Deep Singhs Khanda

Bhai Gurdas refers to Mool Mantra upto Hosibhisach

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Hari_Singh_%28Randhawe_wale%29/Baba.Hari.Singh--Mool.Mantar.Nirna.mp3

Gurmatveechar/baba hari singh/mool mantra nirna

[luckysingh99]

deleted- cannot get the gurmukhi fonts spaced correctly.

[Guest]

ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ।

ਸਤਿਨਾਮ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਹੁਇ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ।

ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਨਾਉ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਭਾਇਆ।

ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗੰਤਰੁ ਹੋਂਦਾ ਆਇਆ।

ਹੈਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਸਚੁ ਦਰਸਣ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ|

ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵਲੀਣੁ ਹੁਇ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਪਰਚਾ ਪਰਚਾਇਆ।

ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਹ ਇਕੀਹ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉ

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਅਲਖ ਲਖਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Bhai gurdas Ji di vaar.

[luckysingh99]

I had a few doubts at one time in deciding what was mool mantar, beej mantar and Maha mantar.

Although, i am no scholar and have only self taught myself gurmukhi in the last few years, i simply looked at the grammar of how the beginning of Guru granth sahib ji was composed.

Maybe, you will understand why it made sense to me to differentiate between maha mantar and mool mantar.

here goes.........

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God, TheName Is Truth Creative Being Personified No Fear No Hatred Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace~

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.

Always been arguments that moolmantar ends here because next we have JAP written with 2 Dhandis on either side, to specify that JAP bani begins.

However, look carefully and you see that the 2 dhandis are written to specify the end of line.

1st line ends at gurprasad.

and the JAP bani begins with 2 dhandis on either side of it.

॥ ਜਪੁ ॥

Chant And Meditate:

Jap.

ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥

True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.

Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.

ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥

True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||

Now, we can see the number 1 written at end to specify it is first tuk or line after JAP had begun.

However if you look further then-

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥

By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.

Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.

ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥

By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within.

Cẖupai cẖup na hova▫ī je lā▫e rahā liv ṯār.

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥

The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even by piling up loads of worldly goods.

Bẖukẖi▫ā bẖukẖ na uṯrī je bannā purī▫ā bẖār.

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.

Sahas si▫āṇpā lakẖ hohi ṯa ik na cẖalai nāl.

ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥

So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?

Kiv sacẖi▫ārā ho▫ī▫ai kiv kūrhai ṯutai pāl.

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||

Hukam rajā▫ī cẖalṇā Nānak likẖi▫ā nāl. ||1||

...The number 1 appears again after hukam rajiee chalnaa Nanak likhia naal.

The bani carries on as such with pauri 2, 3.. .. all in sequence.

So, the number 1 or specification to indicate first pauri/shabad/tuk or mantar appears TWICE !

Therefore, what would you call the verse before this pauri numbering of 1,2,3,4,.... begins after it specified IIJAPII ?

Upto hosi bi sach has to be mool mantar, as then it makes sense for the Maha Mantar to be up to where the first 2 dhandies finish the line.

Otherwise, if you think or doubt that the mool mantar is up to Gurprasad, then what and where is Maha mantar ???

It doesn't work out correctly no matter what you try because there will be some irregularity with Maha mantar, Beej mantar and mool mantar.

The ONLY way that you can distinguish them ALL clearly is the way explained in OP.

[WaljinderSingh]

Correct me if I am wrong:

'Beej-mantar and Maha-mantar can be recited by ones who gone to 4th pad avastha (above 3 gun maya). For trey-gun-jeev, it is recommended to do jaap of Mool-mantar instead.'

[N30S1NGH]

Correct me if I am wrong:

'Beej-mantar and Maha-mantar can be recited by ones who gone to 4th pad avastha (above 3 gun maya). For trey-gun-jeev, it is recommended to do jaap of Mool-mantar instead.'

Not just at 4th pad avastha but also by someone who is at higher state of mind and utam jiagaso under guidance of mahapursh in form of panj. Similiarly , Ik0ngkar Satigurparsad is known as maha vakh mantar in itself is only advised to be reciten by someone at higher avastha.

Most people recite Ikongkar satigurparsad as mangal like and all the mantars above as if they have to catch train but there are lot of deep secrets behind beej, maha, mool, gurmantar, maha vak mantra which are only found in sadh sangat, bhramgyani mahapursh. Ikongkar satigurparsad comes roughly 800 times in sri guru granth sahib ji and other granths of khalsa. It should not be only looked as mangal but also mangal and mantar in itself.

In old traditional gurmat traditions nirgun aspect of IkOngkar Satigurparsad (One Universal consciouness- True consciousness bliss) was given as one of mahavak/esoteric gyan layer of naam to contemplate on depending on spiritual stage of a seeker.

Satguru kirpa (Sargun arth of satigurparsad) is required in order to be in the stage or spiritually drawn towards that esoteric layer of understanding of ik0ngkar satigurparsad /perception at the first place. so both sargun and nirgun arths are intertwine with each other.

Please see this thread for more info:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/34596-meaning-of-gur-prasad/

[hsingh68]

Correct me if I am wrong:

'Beej-mantar and Maha-mantar can be recited by ones who gone to 4th pad avastha (above 3 gun maya). For trey-gun-jeev, it is recommended to do jaap of Mool-mantar instead.'

You are misinformed sir. This isn't hogwarts witchcraft of school of wizardry where we are given magical mantars to recite like some sort of magical spell :lol2:

[WaljinderSingh]

You are misinformed sir. This isn't hogwarts witchcraft of school of wizardry where we are given magical mantars to recite like some sort of magical spell :lol2:

Tusi bas lol lol kari jaio. Mein avastha di gal kiti si ki aam banda ona parkaash jo pargat hunda jaap karn naal - maha mantar, beej mantar- sehn nhi kr skda.

Avastha magic spell naal nhi milda guru pyareoo. Avastha upar chukan lyi abhyaas di lorh hai. smiley jahey apney vastey smbaalkey rakho

Bhul chuk muaaf..

[hsingh68]

Tusi bas lol lol kari jaio. Mein avastha di gal kiti si ki aam banda ona parkaash jo pargat hunda jaap karn naal - maha mantar, beej mantar- sehn nhi kr skda.

Avastha magic spell naal nhi milda guru pyareoo. Avastha upar chukan lyi abhyaas di lorh hai. smiley jahey apney vastey smbaalkey rakho

Bhul chuk muaaf..

There is no such thing as avasta sir, there are no stages either. You either know it or you don't. Keep it simple...

[WaljinderSingh]

There is no such thing as avasta sir, there are no stages either. You either know it or you don't. Keep it simple...

Picture tu Bhai Randhir Singh ji di laai hai profile vich pr pta teinu eik kann v nhi... bas kar .. rehn dey tu.