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I am a 32 year old sikh girl living with my parents. I have not taken Amrit but I am a sincere individual with full respect of my religion. I do Nitnem and join the Sangat at the Gurudwara Sahib. I understand I am not amritdhari but still request some input for my query.

Just to give a little background about my situation, I am in a relationship with an individual who is white for the past 6 months or so. I meet him once in a while and usually we just talk on the phone and via emails or messages. He is a great guy. He is respectful not only to me but also towards my religion and culture. We always talk about how things will work when we get married. He has no problem going to the Gurudwara or raising our children as sikhs. Also he never initiated any physical relationship as he understands the values of a sikh girl. Despite not meeting in person too much, we do get along very well and share the same beliefs towards life. I am a vegan and he totally supports me. In fact he stopped eating meat as he wants to support me not just in words. I can describe more qualities about him but to summarize we love each other and want to get married in a year or so. We are both busy and focused on our careers and again 6 months is too short of a time to make a such big decision. We want to get to know each other and get to that point. Unfortunately I can't do that as dating or meeting other men is not appropriate.

On the other hand I am being forced to say yes to an arranged match. I met the guy for 30 mins at a family get together and was asked to get married. This is a very tough for me as I feel I am being asked to give up on my relationship which I have full faith in. I am not able to tell my parents about him due to obvious reasons. My parents are so unhappy with me as I turned down the match they chose. They hate me and have said quite harsh words. I am being asked to leave my house.

I don't want to justify myself here but then I didn't plan to meet a guy and like him. I didn't go searching for a man especially a white man. We met and we clicked.I have always respected my family and did everything they asked of me. Be it choosing my university or my clothes. I always did what they wanted. I don't go out and party or drink and all. I have a small circle of friends and barely meet them. I have two jobs and I keep busy with my life. Am I wrong? Am I selfish as I am thinking about choosing my life partner and making this decision on my own? Does it make me less of a Sikh or a good daughter? I am heartbroken at the constant tension at home. No one is talking to me. My father told me that he wants me to leave if I am not going to get married to this guy or any other guy they choose.

I thank you all.

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Parents ! what do they know? hey they only gave birth to us cleaned us when we were dirty, fed us when we were hungry, kept us warm when we were cold, gave us medicine when we were sick , taught us to

Indeed your parents take care of you.love them as much as you can ..you get them once in your life. They are priceless .In love marriage ,only two hearts bloom....but in arrange marriage , you sacrifi

conversion to marry someone is not sikhi it must come from within by Guru ji blessing. one must feel the pang in their heart to be with Guru ji merely adopting bana or kesh is not sikhi. when one wa

It would be good if you told your folks about this guy, atleast your mom or sis if you're really scared to tell your dad.

Would it be possible for you to arrange a meeting between your parents/family and the white gentleman? Perhaps they might change their mind once they meet him? Or perhaps you might change yours once the meeting is over?

Think about it, and if possible, see if you can work it out.

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Personally i am against inter-religious marriage and strongly believe that it should be avoided at all cost. In our parents time, there is a saying that it takes whole village to raise a good child. In this age, it clearly takes BOTH father+mother to raise a sikh child. If a child got father following one religion and mother following another, one will clearly see a confused child. This is one major responsibility that our mind fail to grasp the reality when we are in early 20's. Respect is always there; core part of several cultures to respect other whether related or not. This is one tough position you are in but i would really suggest you to take time off and think wisely as your whole life depends on that. One thing to keep in mind is that it is natural that after few years you would regret few decisions that you took earlier in life. I felt that way about my field study/career etc. Don't marry anyone which does not have any of you input. Every parents should involve their kids before even looking for a match. At same time, keep in mind that as per 52 rehitnama of Guru Gobind Singh ji: Parents should only give their daughters hand to another Sikh (which in practical form you see bride father comes and put palla of kuri into groom's hand during wedding).

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You might be mature by age but have a lit to learn when it comes to life and making right choices.

This fantasy of everything is greener on the other side of the fence has ruined many punjabi girls lives. 99% of white people have no ground to stand on. They are swayed and act as the world wants them. I dont like you anymore....you are not fun anymore...lets get a divorce. They literally live in the moment and dont care about long term commitments. That little boy toy you have is living in the moment and will get bored of you in time and who know what he will do to leave you.

Say by a very slim chance he has the ability to take up good punjabi values. What about his parents. What are they like? Are they moral people according to punjabi and Sikhi culture. Can you leave your kids with his parents? Can they be trusted? When two are married the two side of the family literally have to get along and like each others behaviors and morals. Huge disputes take place and I can see this erupting in a split second. Sorry sister but you are being naive and not looking at the whole picture.

White people have very low standards when it comes to what is clean, right, and moral. Majority are like this as they lost their biblical backbone two centuries ago. Punjabis are heading down the same road but aleast for the time being majority are standing on some ground.

When people get ugly, old, and boring then white people run for the hill and dont look back. Todays pretty face is tomorrow's used meat.

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You might be mature by age but have a lit to learn when it comes to life and making right choices.

This fantasy of everything is greener on the other side of the fence has ruined many punjabi girls lives. 99% of white people have no ground to stand on. They are swayed and act as the world wants them. I dont like you anymore....you are not fun anymore...lets get a divorce. They literally live in the moment and dont care about long term commitments. That little boy toy you have is living in the moment and will get bored of you in time and who know what he will do to leave you.

Say by a very slim chance he has the ability to take up good punjabi values. What about his parents. What are they like? Are they moral people according to punjabi and Sikhi culture. Can you leave your kids with his parents? Can they be trusted? When two are married the two side of the family literally have to get along and like each others behaviors and morals. Huge disputes take place and I can see this erupting in a split second. Sorry sister but you are being naive and not looking at the whole picture.

White people have very low standards when it comes to what is clean, right, and moral. Majority are like this as they lost their biblical backbone two centuries ago. Punjabis are heading down the same road but aleast for the time being majority are standing on some ground.

When people get ugly, old, and boring then white people run for the hill and dont look back. Todays pretty face is tomorrow's used meat.

Veer ji ,

kaam di bimaari duniya nu laghia not just gorey that's why it called kalyug ...these days even Khalsa are divorcing... and supposedly Amritdhari guys are asking their wives to be like gorey mems instead of Guru Gobind Singh ji's daughters and kicking them to the kerb if they don't . There is one bibi who posted something about her fiance recently like that on the forum, another is suffering because her husband can't stay in the marriage ... where is the idea of one team, for life, to obtain life's goal Jiwan Mukhti ? Most people are busy chasing shadows, very few are holding naam da diva to see what's real.

I can understand the difficulties of a mixed family as my in-laws are gorey Brasilians(they live in Brasil) they are the type of people who have fallen headfirst into maya's illusions and they are poles apart from my family yet their eldest son was a 'black sheep' in terms of spiritual values, he is very much in agreement with Guru ji on how to live life and treat people, he goes gurudwara, listens to kirtan , joins in with sewa happily, he makes sure his kids stick to their guns as trainee Khalsa (they've had amrit), he stopped all meat etc when he married, he has made Guru ji his support in life but he hasn't got to the point yet of taking amrit, he has kept his beard and hair uncut for the past 16 years much to his folks chagrin. They think I am controlling him but truth is I never say do this and do that because he is Guru ji's to command.

My advice to Bhaine ji is be truthful to yourself, the guy and your folks :

Is it infatuation ? because you admit you have not spent that much time with him face to face to judge his character?

Is he aware that if he gets seriously involved with you what that would mean for you and your family?

That once engaged it has to be seen through to the end ? Some guys (ours too) do use girls by getting engaged and mucking them about.

That marriage in our culture is seen as a one-time only deal?

Are you prepared to let him go if asked to by your folks ?

Are you prepared to tell your folks properly about him and introduce him?

Is he prepared to go through that 'trial' of physical meeting with your parents? If he tells you to elope , my advice is break ties then and there and if you feel like running away it's never going to work . it has be based on the truth to be worth something.

I would suggest doing an Ardas for Guru ji who knows what is in our best interests to make a decision one way or the other quickly and carried on with your normal life - I did this and left the rest to Guru ji it went towards marriage. My friend who was Muslim had a similar situation a few years later asked me for advice I told to do the same and within two weeks the white guy peeled off by himself ... so she got her answer, she now is happily married to someone her parents and she had known from before through friends and has two wonderful sons.

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Veer ji ,

kaam di bimaari duniya nu laghia not just gorey that's why it called kalyug ...these days even Khalsa are divorcing... and supposedly Amritdhari guys are asking their wives to be like gorey mems instead of Guru Gobind Singh ji's daughters and kicking them to the kerb if they don't . There is one bibi who posted something about her fiance recently like that on the forum, another is suffering because her husband can't stay in the marriage ... where is the idea of one team, for life, to obtain life's goal Jiwan Mukhti ? Most people are busy chasing shadows, very few are holding naam da diva to see what's real.

I can understand the difficulties of a mixed family as my in-laws are gorey Brasilians(they live in Brasil) they are the type of people who have fallen headfirst into maya's illusions and they are poles apart from my family yet their eldest son was a 'black sheep' in terms of spiritual values, he is very much in agreement with Guru ji on how to live life and treat people, he goes gurudwara, listens to kirtan , joins in with sewa happily, he makes sure his kids stick to their guns as trainee Khalsa (they've had amrit), he stopped all meat etc when he married, he has made Guru ji his support in life but he hasn't got to the point yet of taking amrit, he has kept his beard and hair uncut for the past 16 years much to his folks chagrin. They think I am controlling him but truth is I never say do this and do that because he is Guru ji's to command.

My advice to Bhaine ji is be truthful to yourself, the guy and your folks :

Is it infatuation ? because you admit you have not spent that much time with him face to face to judge his character?

Is he aware that if he gets seriously involved with you what that would mean for you and your family?

That once engaged it has to be seen through to the end ? Some guys (ours too) do use girls by getting engaged and mucking them about.

That marriage in our culture is seen as a one-time only deal?

Are you prepared to let him go if asked to by your folks ?

Are you prepared to tell your folks properly about him and introduce him?

Is he prepared to go through that 'trial' of physical meeting with your parents? If he tells you to elope , my advice is break ties then and there and if you feel like running away it's never going to work . it has be based on the truth to be worth something.

I would suggest doing an Ardas for Guru ji who knows what is in our best interests to make a decision one way or the other quickly and carried on with your normal life - I did this and left the rest to Guru ji it went towards marriage. My friend who was Muslim had a similar situation a few years later asked me for advice I told to do the same and within two weeks the white guy peeled off by himself ... so she got her answer, she now is happily married to someone her parents and she had known from before through friends and has two wonderful sons.

"Amritdhari guys are asking their wives to be like gorey mems instead of Guru Gobind Singh ji's daughters and kicking them to the kerb if they don't ."

really? so far I have seen the majority of non amritdhari sikh guys and even monas want their wives to cover their heads and wear decent cloths to avoid skin show off..These are the sikh girls who fight for the sake of fashion and trends..

The guys you are talking about may be considered but everybody knows these are exceptional cases and can be ignored easily.. and in my opinion exceptional cases should not be considered.

"je aaj goriyaan mema nu Gursikh munda pasand aun lag pya te ide wich kasoor gursikh munde da nai a.." These are good qualities of any Gursikh guy that are liked by every girl if she is genuine woman..."

btw you look from london and I don't think I should tell you what sikh girls are getting over here......."name and shame" both..

and one thing more, go to any Gurudwara sahib ji or get any newspaper or go to any sikh matrimonial site. and see who demands and requires more, sikh girl or sikh guy?and also see sikh girl or sikh guy, who wants us to separate from Guru Gobind Singh ji ...for sure you are gonna get your answer...

khud changiyaan hundiyan ta Guriskh munde naal vyaa kron nu thavadia linaa lagiyaan hunyian c...supne Guriskh de aune c naa ki justin beiber de... changaa bhalla munda sardara da mangta bnaa ke rakh dita te gallan karooo.........

the most famous line in our punjabi families is sung by sikh girls """ mummy mummy main sardar munde naal vyaa nai krona ,munda mainu cleanshave chahida".. so do the sikh guys sing a song something like that? naah nahh...

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I thank you all for your replies.

to answer the questions above:-

Is it infatuation ? I am positive that it is not infatuation. We haven't engaged in any inappropriate relationship. When I say we don't meet much is true. Meeting once every ten days or so is what we have. Despite the lack of face to face meetings, we still have mutual love and respect and thus I am sure it is not infatuation. Or else it would not have lasted this long. We are patient with each other's career's and lives. There is no urgency to have dates on a weekly basis.

Is he aware that if he gets seriously involved with you what that would mean for you and your family? We have discussed this. He understands the differences and is aware of the consequences. Therefore we want to move forward with my parents blessings.

That once engaged it has to be seen through to the end ? Some guys (ours too) do use girls by getting engaged and mucking them about. We have talked about this as well. We discussed how valuable and sacred the element of matrimony is. That we don't believe in a common law relationship and how we do not expect to break engagements and once again not engage in a physical relationship before marriage.

That marriage in our culture is seen as a one-time only deal? Fortunately we are both clear on this. This was a first relationship for both of us. Both his family and my family have no notions about divorces or moving from one relationship to the other. If we do take this step, we both intend to see it through to the best of our abilities.

Are you prepared to let him go if asked to by your folks ? This is a tough decision and hence I was asking for advice. It is true that I cannot make everyone happy but I do not want to give up on either relationship.

Are you prepared to tell your folks properly about him and introduce him? Yes he is ready to formally present a proposal.

Is he prepared to go through that 'trial' of physical meeting with your parents? If he tells you to elope , my advice is break ties then and there and if you feel like running away it's never going to work . it has be based on the truth to be worth something. Eloping is the farthest thing from our minds. We respect my culture and my religion and there is no way that I will be hurting my parents by eloping. I feel at 30 plus, we are somewhat mature to analyse that such decisions are foolish. I am not having an illicit affair that I want to run away. I want to get married with everyone's blessings.

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Instead of saying goreh this that y can't u be happy for jkvlondon? Her husband has accepted the Sikh faith and look how passionate he is about it. Actually Sikh guys r fussy too when it comes to choosing girls. It's both ways.

Je Goria memaa nu Gursikh pasand aunde, gore mundea nu changia Sikh kuriaa kio ni pasand a sakdia. Why is it one rule for the guys n another for the girls. Even guys want the perfect wife, not just to say to girls is right. I noticed this if a gori Marrys a guy no big deal they are welcomed but if it's a gora marrying a girl then the girl is belittled. why? Where's the equality?

btw you look from london and I don't think I should tell you what sikh girls are getting over here......."name and shame" both..

Not just London, India too. Girls from punjab don't exactly want to get to turban guys, they are probably same thinking as uk girls. I also seen a lot of girls from punjab that don't care wat their husband is just to go abroad. It's happening everywhere not just London. We can't say only one side is when faults are on both.

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"Amritdhari guys are asking their wives to be like gorey mems instead of Guru Gobind Singh ji's daughters and kicking them to the kerb if they don't ."

really? so far I have seen the majority of non amritdhari sikh guys and even monas want their wives to cover their heads and wear decent cloths to avoid skin show off..These are the sikh girls who fight for the sake of fashion and trends..

The guys you are talking about may be considered but everybody knows these are exceptional cases and can be ignored easily.. and in my opinion exceptional cases should not be considered.

"je aaj goriyaan mema nu Gursikh munda pasand aun lag pya te ide wich kasoor gursikh munde da nai a.." These are good qualities of any Gursikh guy that are liked by every girl if she is genuine woman..."

btw you look from london and I don't think I should tell you what sikh girls are getting over here......."name and shame" both..

and one thing more, go to any Gurudwara sahib ji or get any newspaper or go to any sikh matrimonial site. and see who demands and requires more, sikh girl or sikh guy?and also see sikh girl or sikh guy, who wants us to separate from Guru Gobind Singh ji ...for sure you are gonna get your answer...

khud changiyaan hundiyan ta Guriskh munde naal vyaa kron nu thavadia linaa lagiyaan hunyian c...supne Guriskh de aune c naa ki justin beiber de... changaa bhalla munda sardara da mangta bnaa ke rakh dita te gallan karooo.........

the most famous line in our punjabi families is sung by sikh girls """ mummy mummy main sardar munde naal vyaa nai krona ,munda mainu cleanshave chahida".. so do the sikh guys sing a song something like that? naah nahh...

Veer ji

I was just pointing out that all humans are suffering from the same Maya ... my husband works in the city and he would come home and occasionally share how he was flabbergasted and shocked at the Hijabwali bibian's behaviour , now he's from a country where basically nange lok phirde on the beaches so I can only imagine what he has seen. As he says they want to be judged by the look of modesty and be respected but then the clothes are tight, face is caked in makeup and then they come to see their boyfriends and grind up on them in public. it is pure hypocrisy, same at schools and uni the kids say one thing to Ma Pio then go totally off the rails when out of sight. The guys need to behave too it's not just the girls.

I believe when you watch Bollywood movies/serials in your home you create a rod for your own back especially if you are not installing Sikh values in your kids ... I don't have any of the channels, I also restrict the influence of hollywood as much as possible and my kids so far operate in Sikh mentality, they are questioning the results of what they see around them in life in terms of Sikh values , I am supremely thankful to Waheguru that they do engage their brains . Most family members who watch those filmi things don't think of anything on a deep level it's all superficial in my experience.

Those people who keep giving headspace to jaat paat are giving their valuable thoughts to Hindu mat rentfree. They are probably the same people who need to get their chanda sewa recognised by calling it out in ardas, insisting on having partysharty on gurudwara premises at the weddings too etc etc

a

I know that my husband found my sikhi a definite megaplus , it gave him a place to be his true self not act up to being some kind of stereotypical jack-the-lad , it allows him to talk about spiritual stuff his family doesn't process or discuss possibly those gorian who like Gursikhs are like my husband they need a true partner. There is no doubt in my mind that Gursikhs are very attractive they are clean-living, spiritual, full of chardi kala and compassion what's not to like ? Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupid and that what these girls and guys and their parents are who more worried about fitting into filmi stereotypes than having true meaning in their lives

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Instead of saying goreh this that y can't u be happy for jkvlondon? Her husband has accepted the Sikh faith and look how passionate he is about it. Actually Sikh guys r fussy too when it comes to choosing girls. It's both ways.

Je Goria memaa nu Gursikh pasand aunde, gore mundea nu changia Sikh kuriaa kio ni pasand a sakdia. Why is it one rule for the guys n another for the girls. Even guys want the perfect wife, not just to say to girls is right. I noticed this if a gori Marrys a guy no big deal they are welcomed but if it's a gora marrying a girl then the girl is belittled. why? Where's the equality?

I like your post honestly but I talked generally...no any comment on her personal life..je goreya nu sikh bibiyaan pasand aun lag piya ta boht khushi di gal a..but main ae kehna chonda a va ki sikh banda apna dharm kadi nai shad da..paave ohdi gf ya wife b force kare...oh apni timmi tak chad du...te ida de bathere case huye a.. and why don't we see any such spirit in our bibiyan ..? why they are ready to be labelled as muslim 'cristian 'hindu wifE? why don't they ask their lovers to convert themselves to be a sikh first and then ask her to be married with her... why why? go to the society and see who is doing inter religious marriages more sikh guy or sikh girl? obviously its sikh girl.. why are not most of the sikh girls like jkv london? and yes when sikh guy marries outside nobody says anything bcz everybody knows a new person is coming to cherish the sikhism.. and this thing is not welcomed in only sikhi but in every other relgion ... and sikhi virsa is completely different from religions where women has been respected too much even more than a sikh man by Gurus..

and I have spent my 18 yrs being monah and I m sardar sikh guy from last two yrs and I have felt the pains and sorrows of those Gursikh/turban/keshdhari guys ... and I m not talking for myself here ..khud lyi ta parvah nai marda ki main sikh woman attractive hai ya nai mainu hor batheria lol..,I m only talking for those Guriskh guys are being targetted without any reason with anti sikh identity propaganda ..to keep on showing them worse as compared to other guys...

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I like your post honestly but I talked generally...no any comment on her personal life..je goreya nu sikh bibiyaan pasand aun lag piya ta boht khushi di gal a..but main ae kehna chonda a va ki sikh banda apna dharm kadi nai shad da..paave ohdi gf ya wife b force kare...oh apni timmi tak chad du...te ida de bathere case huye a.. and why don't we see any such spirit in our bibiyan ..? why they are ready to be labelled as muslim 'cristian 'hindu wifE? why don't they ask their lovers to convert themselves to be a sikh first and then ask her to be married with her... why why? go to the society and see who is doing inter religious marriages more sikh guy or sikh girl? obviously its sikh girl.. why are not most of the sikh girls like jkv london? and yes when sikh guy marries outside nobody says anything bcz everybody knows a new person is coming to cherish the sikhism.. and this thing is not welcomed in only sikhi but in every other relgion ... and sikhi virsa is completely different from religions where women has been respected too much even more than a sikh man by Gurus..

Turban guy, I respect your views. I am not intending to convert or change or give up my religion. There is no concern about it. My boyfriend totally and 100 % respects my religion as well. If white men like sikh girls, then the same goes for sikh boys liking white girls. As long as the religion is not harmed and hampered with, there should be no inequality between the two examples right?

Is it appropriate to ask for conversion as per Sikhism principles? I understand for anand karaj, a sikh needs to marry another sikh. What about in general?

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I like your post honestly but I talked generally...no any comment on her personal life..je goreya nu sikh bibiyaan pasand aun lag piya ta boht khushi di gal a..but main ae kehna chonda a va ki sikh banda apna dharm kadi nai shad da..paave ohdi gf ya wife b force kare...oh apni timmi tak chad du...te ida de bathere case huye a.. and why don't we see any such spirit in our bibiyan ..? why they are ready to be labelled as muslim 'cristian 'hindu wifE? why don't they ask their lovers to convert themselves to be a sikh first and then ask her to be married with her... why why? go to the society and see who is doing inter religious marriages more sikh guy or sikh girl? obviously its sikh girl.. why are not most of the sikh girls like jkv london? and yes when sikh guy marries outside nobody says anything bcz everybody knows a new person is coming to cherish the sikhism.. and this thing is not welcomed in only sikhi but in every other relgion ... and sikhi virsa is completely different from religions where women has been respected too much even more than a sikh man by Gurus..

and I have spent my 18 yrs being monah and I m sardar sikh guy from last two yrs and I have felt the pains and sorrows of those Gursikh/turban/keshdhari guys ... and I m not talking for myself here ..khud lyi ta parvah nai marda ki main sikh woman attractive hai ya nai mainu hor batheria lol..,I m only talking for those Guriskh guys are being targetted without any reason with anti sikh identity propaganda ..to keep on showing them worse as compared to other guys...

Yes u are right paaji.

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Veer ji ,

kaam di bimaari duniya nu laghia not just gorey that's why it called kalyug ...these days even Khalsa are divorcing... and supposedly Amritdhari guys are asking their wives to be like gorey mems instead of Guru Gobind Singh ji's daughters and kicking them to the kerb if they don't . There is one bibi who posted something about her fiance recently like that on the forum, another is suffering because her husband can't stay in the marriage ... where is the idea of one team, for life, to obtain life's goal Jiwan Mukhti ? Most people are busy chasing shadows, very few are holding naam da diva to see what's real.

I am not talking about lust. I am talking about having a backbone. Yeah, punjabi guys do a lot of messed up things, but at the end of the day they have backbone. They know who they are and where they came from. This gives them some ground to stand on and assess their actions when they get too out of hand. Yet white people have lost this backbone. Their backbone has been lost. Today one might be trying to live as a Sikh, but tomorrow like a switch he can go off the handles and be the complete opposite. I don't disagree with you about a very small minority of Amritdhari boys want bollywood women as their wife. Yet these too have a backbone when it comes to the last ounce of respect. The issues in the punjabi community do exist, but they are at manageable level. White culture has destroyed the very foundation of any person who wants to live a decent life for the past two centuries. They have been zombies for too long and always revolt back to this type of living. They are born and raised as worldly followers. They have no roots. Punjabis have roots.

The original poster does not seem genuine about answering questions correctly. It seems as she already made her decision before posting here and was only looking for supporters for her decision. She has gone off on the deep end and will only return when that rock smacks her in the face. I think at the moment she can't be helped and will face reality down the road when it is too late.

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