Punjabi Language

[JRoudh 13]

Coming from certain Punjabi background which I am sure most people are aware of I have found that the Punjabi dialect we speak is slightly different from other Sikh communities in the UK. It is not worse or better but just a bit different. ie I find that our Punjabi is more similar to Punjabi spoken by Muslim Punjabis.

However, I also find that Canadian/American Punjabi sounds more similar to what I speak then the UK Punjabis. What could be the reasons behind this?

Could this just be the geographic locations in the Punjab. As most of the people from the community I come from, originate from Amritsar Lahore. Ambala areas.

Could this also be the reason that Sikhs that come from the above areas tend to be more strict and conservative then Sikh from other areas. As these areas are more closer to where Sikhism originated.

[jkvlondon 5,548]

Coming from certain Punjabi background which I am sure most people are aware of I have found that the Punjabi dialect we speak is slightly different from other Sikh communities in th UK. It is not worse or better but just a bit different. ie I find that our Punjabi is more similar to that that is spoken by Muslim Punjabis.

However, I also find that Canadian/American Punjabi sounds more similar to what I speak then the UK Punjabis. What could be the reasons behind this?

Could this just be the geographic locations in the Punjab. As most of the people from the community I come from are originate from Amritsar Lahore. Ambala areas.

sounds like dialects are what you are talking about slight differences which add up to a different flow and vocabulary

[StarStriker 1,062]

Well most bhatras come from sialkot/gujrawala (w.panjab), hence they talk in that particular dialect. most sikhs in uk, r from doaba, as r sikhs frm vancouver/surrey (BC, Canada). The sikhs in and around toronto/GTA/missisauga/brampton/rexdale etc r from malwa, n hence speak their own dialect.

[jkvlondon 5,548]

Well most bhatras come from sialkot/gujrawala (w.panjab), hence they talk in that particular dialect. most sikhs in uk, r from doaba, as r sikhs frm vancouver/surrey (BC, Canada). The sikhs in and around toronto/GTA/missisauga/brampton/rexdale etc r from malwa, n hence speak their own dialect.

so Dad was from near Moga and Mum was from Kamalpura tehsil Jagroan they used to do this little thing about salt she Noon he No , Loon are they actually from different dialects ? I wasn't that lucky my Dada ji only ever spent three months with me and my Dadi ji died when I was one so I am not sure of any deeper differences ... it's funny how our language is what unites yet divides us.

[JagsawSingh 860]

However, I also find that Canadian/American Punjabi sounds more similar to what I speak then the UK Punjabis

The Canadian and American Sikhs are the kith and kin of we UK Punjabis, i.e one brother in the UK, the other sister in Vancouver, the older brother in California etc. Thats the way it is with the majority of UK Sikhs. They are not strangers to us. They are close family members brought up in the same household and so speak exactly the same doaba and malwa dialects as we do in the UK. Exactly the same.

It's nothing to do with certain 'communities' as you put it. For example there are bhatras in Hoshiarpur, Jalandhar and Ludhiana and they speak in the same doaba and malwa dialect as we do. They do so because that is the dialect one speaks if one is from those areas. It just so happens that the vast majority of the UK bhatras originate from one small area in Sialkot and so you speak in that Sialkot twang of the majha dialect.

[StarStriker 1,062]

so Dad was from near Moga and Mum was from Kamalpura tehsil Jagroan they used to do this little thing about salt she Noon he No , Loon are they actually from different dialects ? I wasn't that lucky my Dada ji only ever spent three months with me and my Dadi ji died when I was one so I am not sure of any deeper differences ... it's funny how our language is what unites yet divides us.

Indeed yea, it could be differences of dialect, as u well know, united panjab, is absolutely MASSIVE. Also it has a lot to do with posh panjabi and tutti futti/slang panjabi. In the olden days, if u were not able to speak majhi panjabi (amritsar/lahore/montgomery), then u would not b allowed to do radio n id imagine journalism too. Its like in posh panjabi its menu langan dey (let me go), yet in slang panjabi, we say menu nangan dey, exact same thing in regards to ur thing bowt loon/noon (salt). Also the most obvious example of posh n slang difference is, assan/tussan and assi/tussi.

I think its great we have this massive collection of words. Satinder sartaj i remember sed, there should b a panjabi dictionary made, where words r collected from all areas of panjab, rawalpindi to multan, to lahore/amritsar to jalandar to patiala etc. That would be a great read i must say.

I dont kno if u watch panjabi movies, but they seem to only use malwa panjabi in them, which i think is good, coz it sounds better to the most famous panjabi dialect, doabi.

[JagsawSingh 860]

so Dad was from near Moga and Mum was from Kamalpura tehsil Jagroan they used to do this little thing about salt she Noon he No , Loon are they actually from different dialects ? I wasn't that lucky my Dada ji only ever spent three months with me and my Dadi ji died when I was one so I am not sure of any deeper differences ... it's funny how our language is what unites yet divides us.

No they are both speakers of the Malwa dialect in close vicinity to one another. It could be that your mum and dad just liked disagreeing with each other for no good reason. :biggrin2:

You know, you can stand in a village on the edge of the Sutlej in doaba and quite literaly do a 5 second walk across the dry river to a village in Malwa. Its always been that way. But up until this last 2 decades the two never crossed paths. They had totally different accents. Totally different words for things. Different clothes styles. Different customs. Different music and dance. Difference in food. Never, ever married each other. That little river, which in some parts was only psychological because there was no actual water, meant it was like crossing into a different continent. Its only in the last 2 decades, as the malwais have joined the doaba walleh abroad, that the 2 have started mixing with each other.

Lets not forget though, that being a free independant country for a couple of generations played a great role in shaping the psyche of those north of the Sutlej. I say this because the Malwais (ludhiana, Moga etc) were never part of the Sikh Kingdom of Punjab. When grandfather, father and son were a suzerainty it shapes the mind in a different way to one who spent a lifetime as a vassal of a suzerainty.

[jkvlondon 5,548]

Indeed yea, it could be differences of dialect, as u well know, united panjab, is absolutely MASSIVE. Also it has a lot to do with posh panjabi and tutti futti/slang panjabi. In the olden days, if u were not able to speak majhi panjabi (amritsar/lahore/montgomery), then u would not b allowed to do radio n id imagine journalism too. Its like in posh panjabi its menu langan dey (let me go), yet in slang panjabi, we say menu nangan dey, exact same thing in regards to ur thing bowt loon/noon (salt). Also the most obvious example of posh n slang difference is, assan/tussan and assi/tussi.

I think its great we have this massive collection of words. Satinder sartaj i remember sed, there should b a panjabi dictionary made, where words r collected from all areas of panjab, rawalpindi to multan, to lahore/amritsar to jalandar to patiala etc. That would be a great read i must say.

I dont kno if u watch panjabi movies, but they seem to only use malwa panjabi in them, which i think is good, coz it sounds better to the most famous panjabi dialect, doabi.

Mum and Dad used to watch oldies from pakistan as well as b&Ws from India so I know what you mean when you talk about the musicality and aliveness of our maa boli ...Mum used to kid around with 'pe lie-ah ke' for pio ghio lehanda... the only other 'sikh' family near us were amritsari boy Pushpa Kaur spoke as fast as a rail injin but it was awe-inspiring. Dada ji taught me about Singha di boli roodu parshad -ganda , mitteh parshadey -bhaiaya rotian ... we need to have our own itihaasic boli dictionary so the old code names don't get lost and we can add to them...

[jkvlondon 5,548]

No they are both speakers of the Malwa dialect in close vicinity to one another. It could be that your mum and dad just liked disagreeing with each other for no good reason. :biggrin2:

You know, you can stand in a village on the edge of the Sutlej in doaba and quite literaly do a 5 second walk across the dry river to a village in Malwa. Its always been that way. But up until this last 2 decades the two never crossed paths. They had totally different accents. Totally different words for things. Different clothes styles. Different customs. Different music and dance. Difference in food. Never, ever married each other. That little river, which in some parts was only psychological because there was no actual water, meant it was like crossing into a different continent. Its only in the last 2 decades, as the malwais have joined the doaba walleh abroad, that the 2 have started mixing with each other.

Lets not forget though, that being a free independant country for a couple of generations played a great role in shaping the psyche of those north of the Sutlej. I say this because the Malwais (ludhiana, Moga etc) were never part of the Sikh Kingdom of Punjab. When grandfather, father and son were a suzerainty it shapes the mind in a different way to one who spent a lifetime as a vassal of a suzerainty.

Dada ji's family lost everything in partition and had to move over from where they originated but I have no-one to ask here in UK so possibly they are from a bit more different background than I can say. But I will say Nanakey have a more gentle style, vocabulary and rhythm of speaking comparatively

[JRoudh 13]

The Canadian and American Sikhs are the kith and kin of we UK Punjabis, i.e one brother in the UK, the other sister in Vancouver, the older brother in California etc. Thats the way it is with the majority of UK Sikhs. They are not strangers to us. They are close family members brought up in the same household and so speak exactly the same doaba and malwa dialects as we do in the UK. Exactly the same.

It's nothing to do with certain 'communities' as you put it. For example there are bhatras in Hoshiarpur, Jalandhar and Ludhiana and they speak in the same doaba and malwa dialect as we do. They do so because that is the dialect one speaks if one is from those areas. It just so happens that the vast majority of the UK bhatras originate from one small area in Sialkot and so you speak in that Sialkot twang of the majha dialect.

I did not know that. But I do tend to find the Canadian Punjabi sound different to the UK punjabis slightly. ie Jazzy b and certain other singers from there. They speak in a more aggressive tone similar to Bhatras. Maybe thats just from a select few Ive heard from there. I also have to say Bhatras Punjabi is also different from Muslims Punjabis. The muslim Punjabi speak in a more softly and slow way and have different pronunciations for most words. The Bhatras on the other hand speak in a very loud, aggressive way with many different pronunciations Ie you can hear a Bhatra even if your a mile a way lol

To be honest I dont come across many Bhats that come from Sailkot.

So are you saying most UK punjabis are from Jalandhar ie east Punjab hence why they speak in that dilect??

[StarStriker 1,062]

I did not know that. But I do tend to find the Canadian Punjabi sound different to the UK punjabis slightly. ie Jazzy b and certain other singers from there. ie they speak in a more agressive tone similar to Bhatras. Maybe thats just from a select few Ive heard from there.

To be honest I dont come across many Bhats that come from Sailkot.

So are you saying most UK punjabis are from Jalandhar ie east Punjab hence why they speak in that dilect??

Geezer read my 1st post.

Also jazzy b is frm nawanshaher (doaba), same as me, so i can identify with his dialect. Like i mentioned most sikhs in uk and vancouver r from doaba, which is the "aggresive" accent u r on about. Also as i mentioned in 1 of ur bhatras threads before, that my bhatra mates r all frm sialkot pre partition.

[JagsawSingh 860]

So are you saying most UK punjabis are from Jalandhar ie east Punjab hence why they speak in that dilect??

Not just 'UK' Punjabis but it is also the most common dialect / accent in Canada, California, Italy, New Zealand etc. The only exception to this rule is Malaysia, Singapore, Fiji and the very old Sikh communities of Australia. They are mostly Majha people.

But going back to the UK phenomenon, you also have the East African ramgharias added to the dynamics on a large scale and most of them also originate from villages in doaba and so also have an accent more akin to doaba than anything else.

[JagsawSingh 860]

But I will say Nanakey have a more gentle style, vocabulary and rhythm of speaking comparatively

Yes I know what you mean and that is a very sweet mitti mitti Punjabi but I would wander if that is the way Punjabi is supposed to be. You see, as well as being a truly ancient language (900 years older than Hindi and 1900 years older than Urdu) Punjabi is truly unique in that it is the only tonal language in the whole of south Asia. In that tonal regard, it is one of a rare select group of very few languages including Finnish and some Chinese languages). I would suggest that it is supposed to be spoken in the way that South Koreans speak their language...i.e with loud emotion and pitches which give the outsider the impression that the speaker is arguing. I'm really not a fan of this whole monotone emotionless mitti style thats creeping in with the influence of Hindi and Urdu. Thats not the way Punjabi is supposed to be spoken.

[StarStriker 1,062]

Not just 'UK' Punjabis but it is also the most common dialect / accent in Canada, California, Italy, New Zealand etc. The only exception to this rule is Malaysia, Singapore, Fiji and the very old Sikh communities of Australia. They are mostly Majha people.

But going back to the UK phenomenon, you also have the East African ramgharias added to the dynamics on a large scale and most of them also originate from villages in doaba and so also have an accent more akin to doaba than anything else.

Thats wat ive always wanted to kno tbh, as to how east african sikhs (mostly ramgharias) speak doaba panjabi n how they maintained. Coz most of the east african asians r gujarati hindus, n their gujarati language and food, frm wat i understand got influenced by the kenyan/tanzanian/ugandan surroundings. Yet the sikhs frm east africa retained everything from panjab, apart from their turbans of course.

[JRoudh 13]

Not just 'UK' Punjabis but it is also the most common dialect / accent in Canada, California, Italy, New Zealand etc. The only exception to this rule is Malaysia, Singapore, Fiji and the very old Sikh communities of Australia. They are mostly Majha people.

But going back to the UK phenomenon, you also have the East African ramgharias added to the dynamics on a large scale and most of them also originate from villages in doaba and so also have an accent more akin to doaba than anything else.

hmmm Interesting that most Sikhs come from this doaba region. What could be the reason for this?

Bhatras mostly originate from what is now West Punjab and hence speak more similar to people from those areas i guess. I once heard a muslim punjabi girl speak and I was shocked how similar she sounded to me. Saying that Bhatras have a unique dialect in their own right. I can instantly tell when a Bhatra speaks and when a muslim Punjabi speaks.

Bhatra Punjabi is more clear direct and better prounicated then Muslim Punjabi. They also speak faster and more loudly. I think this is due to Bhatras being the earliest settlers in Punjab hence we speak Punjabi in its original form. wheras other Sikh communities came later and spoke their own dialects.