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The Bible Says Jesus Will Return To Kill Everyone


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You can't back this belief up and yet you degrade Shabad and Naam Simran to your lowly status of calling Jesus Christ a Gurmukh. These long winded post of yours provide nothing to the sangat other th

Hallelujah!!! Amen brother!

Surely this argument ends, where guru gobind singh, himself says in the dasam granth, that ALL prophets before him, were all egotistical. Page 139..."all earlier prophets ended themselves in ego. And

Akalifauj Ji i overwhelmingly agree with the points you make about Jesus.

Jesus means nothing to me personally. Sikhi is the only Truth.

But I think that sincere fellow Amritdhari's like Singh123456777 and Harsharan000 Khalsa Ji can actually be a positive benefit for our Panth in potentially bringing Punjabi Christians or indeed others towards the Sikh Panth (if they utilise their obvious reverence for Jesus that way). And I strongly believe the same to be the case in relation to our more Sanatani leaning Sikhs too, such as the Sri Chand Puja Taksali's and N30Singh Khalsa Ji as they can actually do a better job than perhaps myself or others in attracting Hindu's to the path of Sikhi.

In other words, sure let's all advocate the type of Sikhi we sincerely believe Guru Sahib Ji Maharaj have laid out for the Panth. But we don't need to think of others as non-Sikhs just because they hold different views which admittedly i might also feel are tangential to the pristine Truth of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. The key is how do we collectively grow the size of the Sikh Panth in order that there be a greater number of additional new Khalsa Panth members tomorrow to do seva for Sarbat da Bhala as in the case of Nepal, for example, where it is the duty of the Khalsa Panth to be at the forefront of relief efforts. So long as we are busy defining people out of Sikhi (rather than looking at ways to include within the Panth) we the Sikh Panth will remain marginal players globally when it comes to helping those less fortunate.

Nepal Earthquake Donations via UNICEF:

http://www.supportunicef.org/site/c.dvKUI9OWInJ6H/b.9274583/k.FBFF/Help_Children_in_Nepal_Donate_for_earthquake_response.htm

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Well then in your opinion the taksal thinking is wrong...

Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji has said the fate of Jesus Christ. If Guru Sahib wanted us to know what happened after to Jesus Christ he would have wrote it in for all to bow down and accept. Anything written or said by someone else is an opinion when Jesus Christ left this world. I don't have an opinion on the topic because I am satisfied with what Guru Sahib has told me through Gurbani. I have no desire to praise or belittle Jesus Christ. This is my stance as a Sikh of the Guru. Sri Chand followers and associates get a bad taste in their mouth when a Sikh speaks the about him in Gurbani. I see the same distaste coming from those who choose to cover up the truth about Jesus Christ in Gurbani.

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Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji has said the fate of Jesus Christ. If Guru Sahib wanted us to know what happened after to Jesus Christ he would have wrote it in for all to bow down and accept. Anything written or said by someone else is an opinion when Jesus Christ left this world. I don't have an opinion on the topic because I am satisfied with what Guru Sahib has told me through Gurbani. I have no desire to praise or belittle Jesus Christ. This is my stance as a Sikh of the Guru. Sri Chand followers and associates get a bad taste in their mouth when a Sikh speaks the about him in Gurbani. I see the same distaste coming from those who choose to cover up the truth about Jesus Christ in Gurbani.

The people opposing you gave so many reasons, but you only have one, and you even refuse to consider logic much less views and opinions. And u accuse other people of being jatha mentality! Its funny cuz when u were against having kirpaan with u at all times, u said it was because logically it doesn't make sense there are locks on bathroom doors. Where is ur logic now?

Your whole defense hangs on an ENGLISH TRANSLATION of dasam granth bani di tuk.this bani has symbolism, the greatest rhetorical devices, and diverse purposes/functions. Thats why ppl who read only English translation believe that bachittar natak isnt bani. So anyway, I think that translation should have been avatar not prophets. Prophets is paiganbar in gurbani and avtaars are avatars. Avatars r of course the Hindu incarnations that came before guru Ji.

Also SAngh, the bible does not represent Jesus since he did not write it. It's like

Baba vadbhaagh Singh and the Sikh who started the kuke movement. They were saints n ppl started worshipping them n after their death made them gurus n said these r the only true gurus. Its not their fault their legacy was corrupted.

On a utube comment on a chaupai sahib video a person wrote I am a pundit and I really admire Guru Gobind Singh Ji so I have a picture of him in my temple next to all murtis and I worship it daily. Now we all know Guruji was against idol worship and worship of himself but in that remote area of India, who knows how their corrupting the legacy.

We know Jesus was a sant at least because he preached the same things as the bhagats. We can see this from some of the bible. You know love god, gods name, kindness etc

And Jesus Christ was against rituals and religious hypocrisy and friend of the poor just like many bhagats.

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And u already know wat Guru Nanak Dev Ji said about religious labels. Only those with good deeds will win in the end, doesn't matter if Hindu or Muslim.and I assure u Jesus Christ had many good deeds. Sadly, he wasn't able to pass on his knowledge to his followers. Well his current followers. They say the early Christians were tortured burned at stake etc but remained calm and refused to convert. So he failed in his mission because his message too was corrupted like the other prophets.

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...The youth from the outside look as if they are more in Sikhi today, but in reality we are falling victim to jatha culture.

About time this trend was noticed. You'll get hate for this but the Truth has to be said. People get dewey-eyed and emotional when they observe an increase in young dumalla-wearing GurSikhs over the past decade or so, as if it's an indication that Sikhi is flourishing in the West. What these same people fail to do is scratch the surface and observe these youngsters closely. These young folk are like any other teenagers from around the world; they're searching for an identity, looking for somewhere to belong, wanting to be part of something greater than themselves. All noble pursuits. Yet, somewhere along the line they've been recruited (and I use the word "recruited" in the calculating way it's been presented) to expand the numbers of their choice of cult. Yes, I do believe this modern day practice of drafting young Sikhs into jathas to be cult-like.

These youngsters are moulded and groomed to be loyal followers of their jatha and / or baba, whilst the Guru and his Bani comes a distant second. Their baba and his seniors quote tuks from Gurbani and add their own masala to the meanings to make it attractive to these youngsters who want to feel special above anything else. These distortions are knowingly created in order to hold onto this next generation of Sikhs. These people have devalued the sacredness taking of Amrit; let me be clear, Amrit itself cannot be devalued, but the kind of people strutting around in the garb of Gursikhs these days is horrifying. When was the last time they sat down and truly tried to unearth the khoj of Gurbani? I mean truly attempt to get to the heart of what it means to be a Sikh and a human in this world riddled with the 5 vices? Instead, Facebook, Twitter, and Snapchat is what they prefer to waste their time on, and then they flock to a monthly rehnsbhai dressed in all their finery somehow means the job is done, lmao.

Neither their words, their ideas, or their thoughts belie anything Godly at all. It's a huge fraud, and these young Sikhs are being mislead in huge numbers. We should be very, very concerned for the future. But we're a nation of sheep obsessed with following Man and admiring his fleshly attributes. The Word of our Guru has never been enough for us. Well we deserve everything we get.

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Since you seem knowledgeable about this, can you explain to me what jatha culture is, and why it is seen negative to some people? My parents believe in anything those people say.. Sometimes I tell them some stuff I learned online, and they tell me it's fake; but when people part of a jatha say the same thing at times, they believe them instantly.

I'll give you a detailed explanation in a few hours. I'm a bit tied up at the moment. BTW, I'm not against the concept of jathas. I just believe, as with most things in modern religious practices, they've been co-opted and corrupted from within so much so that they serve to weaken and destroy our faith as opposed to unite and bring us closer to Waheguru.

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ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ सलोकु मः १ ॥ Salok mėhlā 1. Shalok, First Mehl:

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ मुसलमाणु कहावणु मुसकलु जा होइ ता मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥ Musalmāṇ kahāvaṇ muskal jā ho▫e ṯā musalmāṇ kahāvai. It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ अवलि अउलि दीनु करि मिठा मसकल माना मालु मुसावै ॥ Aval a▫ul ḏīn kar miṯẖā maskal mānā māl musāvai. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ होइ मुसलिमु दीन मुहाणै मरण जीवण का भरमु चुकावै ॥ Ho▫e muslim ḏīn muhāṇai maraṇ jīvaṇ kā bẖaram cẖukẖāvai. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ रब की रजाइ मंने सिर उपरि करता मंने आपु गवावै ॥ Rab kī rajā▫e manne sir upar karṯā manne āp gavāvai. As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ तउ नानक सरब जीआ मिहरमति होइ त मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥१॥ Ŧa▫o Nānak sarab jī▫ā mihramaṯ ho▫e ṯa musalmāṇ kahāvai. ||1|| And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

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ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ सलोकु मः १ ॥ Salok mėhlā 1. Shalok, First Mehl:

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ मुसलमाणु कहावणु मुसकलु जा होइ ता मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥ Musalmāṇ kahāvaṇ muskal jā ho▫e ṯā musalmāṇ kahāvai. It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ अवलि अउलि दीनु करि मिठा मसकल माना मालु मुसावै ॥ Aval a▫ul ḏīn kar miṯẖā maskal mānā māl musāvai. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ होइ मुसलिमु दीन मुहाणै मरण जीवण का भरमु चुकावै ॥ Ho▫e muslim ḏīn muhāṇai maraṇ jīvaṇ kā bẖaram cẖukẖāvai. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ रब की रजाइ मंने सिर उपरि करता मंने आपु गवावै ॥ Rab kī rajā▫e manne sir upar karṯā manne āp gavāvai. As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ तउ नानक सरब जीआ मिहरमति होइ त मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥१॥ Ŧa▫o Nānak sarab jī▫ā mihramaṯ ho▫e ṯa musalmāṇ kahāvai. ||1|| And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

English translation is a bit off. It does not mention "Muhammad" anywhere. This was added by the 3ho translator. These are not attributes of a Muslim who follows prophet Muhammad or his Quran. These are attributes of a Gursikh. In other words Guru Jee has redefined the term Muslim by giving qualities of a Sikh just as a Sikh is a true Pandit who follows the following written in Sukhmani sahib:

so pandit jo man parboDhai.

raam naam aatam meh soDhai.

raam naam saar ras peevai.

us pandit kai updays jag jeevai.

har kee kathaa hirdai basaavai.

so pandit fir jon na aavai.

bayd puraan simrit boojhai mool.

sookham meh jaanai asthool.

chahu varnaa ka-o day updays.

naanak us pandit ka-o sadaa adays. ||4||

Similarly these are not attributes of a Brahmin Pandit who is a Veda believing Hindu but a Sikh. Guru Jee has redefined the terms Muslim and Pandit in these two Shabads to mean a Gursikh.

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When has the goal of Sikhs or the Gurus ever been to expand the Sikh Panth?

DTF = Bhai Sahib i agree with most of what you say in your post and agreed that Guru Sahib came to spread Truth. However, our failure as ordinary Sikhs to expand the Sikh Panth is what was a big part of our defeat to the British in 1849, our defeat to Pakistan in 1947 and our defeat by Congress in 1984 and the subsequent Genocide that followed. If we don't have critical population mass as a Panth with which to defend ourselves (and to do seva for others through Sarbat da Bhala) then this is why we are easy prey to the alcohol, the drugs, illiteracy, poverty, infanticide, ill-health, biraderi and jatha fissures currently plaguing our Panth. We are currently 1.7% of the Indian population and falling each decade. The next two countries where we are strongest are Canada and the UK where 99% of the people are non-Sikhs (and then we wonder why so many marry those of different faiths). We are not even spreading Gurbani because instead of focussing our efforts on translation of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj into all Indian, Asian and African languages we are more focussed on minor differences amongst us as fellow Sikhs.

What these two guys are doing is wrong. They are using not Gurbani (truth) to bring punjabi Christians into the fold of Sikhi, but opinions; which frankly come out to be lies. Through Truth and into Truth is the Gurus way.

DTF = Bhai Sahib i also strongly disagree with their beliefs re Jesus. However, having read their posts over the years i know they are both sincere Amritdhari's and care about Sikhi sincerely in their hearts. Personally, I find it shocking that Amritdhari's can hold such views and it somewhat explains to me why Christian missionaries are being so successful in Punjab with official sanction. But I don't doubt for a minute their commitment to Sikhi. And if they are going to believe what they do, we don't need to expel them from the Panth but look for ways in which we can utilise their beliefs for the expansion of the Sikh Panth. All the cults out there (of which I believe Christianity and Islam are just two large ones) such as Radha Swami, Nirankari, Sirsa, Ballan etc all give us the potential to actually expand the Sikh Panth's population significantly (as opposed to the Hindutva aim of using those false cults as a means to decimating our population). By including just about anybody and everybody into the lay definition of a Sikh (whilst keeping the Khalsa Panth niyara) we can turn Delhi's tactics on their head. A Panth with even 100 million Sikhs in India would be unstoppable and not be at the mercy of others but in a position to fully defend itself and others worldwide who desperately need the Khalsa Panth for help.

Look at the state of the Khalsa Panth today. 99% of the Sikhs have forgotten Gurbani and attached themselves to a personality or perceived personality. Nihangs, Taksal, Nanaksar, AKJ, Neeldharis, Naamdharis Missionaries, Udasis, Nirmale, Sevapanthis, secular quasi-religious fanatics etc. all have attached themselves to personalities who excite their minds.

DTF = 100% agreed Bhai Sahib. Those that put jatha before Panth are totally wrong. We should have respect for all our sincere fellow Gursikhs (based on their active level of seva for the Panth) regardless of which jatha they belong to and as ordinary Sikhs we have to unitedly work on those problems afflicting our Panth which need every jatha participating in unitedly to combat.

This thread is a perfect example. This conversation was ended in the first 2 pages after Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Bani was posted. But a few were not satisfied with their Gurus final word. Ten pages later they are still attached to personalities and ready to use many methods to convey others to follow these personalities they hold in the highest regard. I have sat with many jathabandis and one thing they all hold in common is the lying. The lying is repeated throughout the jatha to keep members and grow their own mindset among the new and old members. Their Baba is put on a high platform or in many cases the Baba's picture or in Nanaksar cases, the Babas shoes and the sofa he sat on are bow down too. I won't label all Babas with the same brush because majority of them would have burnt all their belongings if they knew the followers would have started bowing down to them. Majority of the Babas have said join to Gurbani, but these groups have taken the Babas personality as the last truth. Time to rethink where am I headed and where am I suppose to be going. The youth from the outside look as if they are more in Sikhi today, but in reality we are falling victim to jatha culture.

DTF = I do agree with most of what you say above. However, I think that given the pluralistic nature of the Punjabi or Indian mindset we need to focus on the similarities that bind us together rather than on the differences. That way via increased interactions between those of different jathebandi's and biraderi's we can all of us come back unitedly to the pristine Truth of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj to strive for the type of global society sincere adherence to Gurmat will create.

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nearly all the jathas are faking in some way.

[MOD DELETED]

Paji, mods can see IP's and ID's associated with them. If you won't say something to someone's face, then chances are you shouldn't talk about someone negatively/say something like what I removed.

Thanks

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