Basics Of Sikhi - Anand Karaj (Addressing The Controversy)

[Quantavius]

Secondly, Why must Sikhs increase in numbers? Why is this so and where is this mentioned as a requirement?

D = Sikhs can remain the small minority we are if you so wish. But then it's pretty futile to then complain of discrimination by bigger populations.

D = I sincerely believe that the vast majority who are humble to be from a former non-Sikh background but are willing to bow down before Maharaj and take on board the information about Sikhi it is our duty to provide can prove to be good Sikhs in the future.

I don't think so. Not gonna argue over this as I'm no Sikh scholar but this is the first time I'm hearing this. I believe Muslims like Pir Buddhu Shah remained a Muslim till death.

D = How could Pir Buddu Shah be wrongly considered a Muslims when he bowed down before Guru Sahib instead of towards Mecca. A Muslim is not allowed to bow before Guru Sahib but given that the Quran advocates the beating of women, the inferiority of women and the rape of non-Muslim women we obviously need to ensure that males of aggressively conversionary Abrahamic faiths affirm that they disavow the lies of the Quran, Book of Mormon, Torah etc.

Again the water bottle theory. LOL!!!!!!!!! Once you compromise, Sikhism becomes meaningless and numbers will dwindle OR there will be a split.

D = That's your opinion. I disagree with you and I've explained why.

You need to take your own advice brother and think logically too. There is no provision in Sikhism to increase our numbers. There is no edict that says 'go forth and multiply'. LOL! We are not here to increase and boast our numbers. This is not our purpose. IMHO, to do so is to engross one self in this physical world and by doing that you impede your own spiritual progress.

D = Well if that's the case then don't complain when the democratic majority rides roughshod over your rights. Because in the real world numbers count. If it's all about individual spirituality rather than what we Sikhs can achieve for Sarbat da Bhala globally then why worry about two people who wish to have an Anand Karaj?

IMHO, one day we will all die and all this nonsense about increasing numbers so that we can be some kinda 'force to be reckoned with' is all nonsense.

D = Agreed me and you will die one day. But it's not about being something in history books but for Sikhi and Sikhs to improve the world around us for the good of all (Sarbat da Bhala)

You're not looking at the larger picture.

D = That's exactly what I believe those protesting and blocking such Anand Karaj's are failing to do

Sorry but you don't have to have a large number in order to be treated equally. Sikhs are treated equally in all western nations despite being a tiny minority. Secondly Sikhism was not created in order for your to increase your population and boast large numbers. IMHO, that goes against the very thesis of Sikhi ad is indulgence in ones ego. You're looking at Sikhism as some kinda racial club and hence your blind spot.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Secondly, Why must Sikhs increase in numbers? Why is this so and where is this mentioned as a requirement?

D = Sikhs can remain the small minority we are if you so wish. But then it's pretty futile to then complain of discrimination by bigger populations.

D = I sincerely believe that the vast majority who are humble enough to be from a former non-Sikh background but are willing to bow down before Maharaj and take on board the information about Sikhi it is our duty to provide can prove to be good Sikhs in the future.

I don't think so. Not gonna argue over this as I'm no Sikh scholar but this is the first time I'm hearing this. I believe Muslims like Pir Buddhu Shah remained a Muslim till death.

D = How could Pir Buddu Shah be wrongfully be considered a Muslim when he bowed down before Guru Sahib instead of towards Mecca. A Muslim is not allowed to bow before Guru Sahib but given that the Quran advocates the beating of women, the inferiority of women and the rape of non-Muslim women we obviously need to ensure that males of aggressively conversionary Abrahamic faiths affirm that they disavow the lies of the Quran, Book of Mormon, Torah etc.

Again the water bottle theory. LOL!!!!!!!!! Once you compromise, Sikhism becomes meaningless and numbers will dwindle OR there will be a split.

D = That's your opinion. I disagree with you and I've explained why.

You need to take your own advice brother and think logically too. There is no provision in Sikhism to increase our numbers. There is no edict that says 'go forth and multiply'. LOL! We are not here to increase and boast our numbers. This is not our purpose. IMHO, to do so is to engross one self in this physical world and by doing that you impede your own spiritual progress.

D = Well if that's the case then don't complain when the democratic majority rides roughshod over your rights. Because in the real world numbers count. If it's all about individual spirituality rather than what we Sikhs can achieve for Sarbat da Bhala globally then why worry about two people who wish to have an Anand Karaj?

IMHO, one day we will all die and all this nonsense about increasing numbers so that we can be some kinda 'force to be reckoned with' is all nonsense.

D = Agreed me and you will die one day. But it's not about being something in history books but for Sikhi and Sikhs to improve the world around us for the good of all (Sarbat da Bhala)

You're not looking at the larger picture.

D = That's exactly what I believe those protesting and blocking such Anand Karaj's are failing to do

DTF, do you really believe that your a better GurSikh than Bhai Jugraj Singh?

[DTF]

Sorry but you don't have to have a large number in order to be treated equally.

D = Agreed in societies where there is respect for equality and no racism or discrimination - something which i believe can only occur under Khalsa Raj.

Sikhs are treated equally in all western nations despite being a tiny minority.

D = Tiny minorities are susceptible and vulnerable to assimilation and intermarriage. The more Sikhs there the less you will have to protest Anand Karaj's.

Secondly Sikhism was not created in order for your to increase your population and boast large numbers.

D = The Khalsa Panth is all about quality over quantity. But the more sehajdhari Sikhs there can be globally to become future Khalsa and support the Khalsa Panth the better. Sikhi is not some racial club defined by being ethnically born as Sikh. Sikhi comes from sincere conviction and is Universal for the whole world to benefit from.

[DTF]

DTF, do you really believe that your a better GurSikh than Bhai Jugraj Singh?

Of course not! No I don't!

Do I think Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji is infalliable - no.

Do I believe he is not seeing the writing on the wall regards us being such a small minority - yes.

Do I believe anybody could dare protest at the Anand Karaj of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj - no

Instead of protesting such Anand Karaj's we should focus greater attention on the dangers that drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, cancer, illiteracy and poverty pose to the Sikh Panth imho.

[Quantavius]

Sorry but you don't have to have a large number in order to be treated equally.

D = Agreed in societies where there is respect for equality and no racism or discrimination - something which i believe can only occur under Khalsa Raj.

Sikhs are treated equally in all western nations despite being a tiny minority.

D = Tiny minorities are susceptible and vulnerable to assimilation and intermarriage. The more Sikhs there the less you will have to protest Anand Karaj's.

Secondly Sikhism was not created in order for your to increase your population and boast large numbers.

D = The Khalsa Panth is all about quality over quantity. But the more sehajdhari Sikhs there can be globally to become future Khalsa and support the Khalsa Panth the better. Sikhi is not some racial club defined by being ethnically born. Sikhi is Universal for the whole world to benefit from.

IMHO, by entertaining ego of wanting a large population in order to perpetuate a large Sikh presence is going to impede your own spiritual progress. If we are going to disappear through assimilation and inter marriage then so be it. If that is what Waheguru ji wills it then let it be. The whole world can benefit through Sikh teachings and not a large Sikh population. If you are really concerned about the world getting to know Sikhi, then go forth and teach.

How did the Jews maintain their presence over 3 thousand years despite being a tiny minority? They too do not promote inter faith marriages.

[pangaphish]

Pls sign and get Bobby friction sacked off BBC.

https://www.change.org/p/mark-strippel-complaint-against-bbc-presenter-bobby-friction-for-use-of-terms-sikh-taliban?recruiter=334436191&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

[DTF]

IMHO, by entertaining ego of wanting a large population in order to perpetuate a large Sikh presence is going to impede your own spiritual progress.

D = That's fine I respect your viewpoint. I personally wish for Khalsa Raj to be global so that all can live in justice, equality and dignity.

If we are going to disappear through assimilation and inter marriage then so be it.

D = That's fine I respect your chilled out attitude. I personally cannot stand to see Sikhi become less significant than it already is.

D = I believe in Khalsa Raj globally for the good of all humanity. I oppose the status quo where we have billions living miserable lives of suffering while billionaires live it up etc. I don't want to see the true sound of Sikhi drowned out by the noise of more numerous lies.

If that is what Waheguru ji wills it then let it be.

D = Vaheguru doesn't will the demographic growth or decline of a Panth.

D = It's we as Sikhs who control the future destiny of the Panth for good or for bad.

The whole world can benefit through Sikh teachings and not a large Sikh population.

D = Agreed that is possible assuming that there are no terrorist nation states or terrorists out there opposed to Gurmat

If you are really concerned about the world getting to know Sikhi, then go forth and teach.

D = Agreed. We should all do that. I know in my conscience that I'm trying the best I can within my limited capability.

How did the Jews maintain their presence over 3 thousand years despite being a tiny minority? They too do not promote inter faith marriages.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-2-intermarriage-and-other-demographics/

D = Have a read through this brother to understand that 21st century is a completely different era to the last 300 or 3000 years ago.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Of course not! No I don't!

Do I think Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji is infalliable - no.

Do I believe he is not seeing the writing on the wall regards us being such a small minority - yes.

Do I believe anybody could dare protest at the Anand Karaj of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj - no

Instead of protesting such Anand Karaj's we should focus greater attention on the dangers that drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, cancer, illiteracy and poverty pose to the Sikh Panth imho.

Guru Sahib did have an equal to an Anand Karaj. His wife took Charan Pahul. Guru Sahib's followers were always small in number, but he never said "go around and spread your Kaam and Haumai, forget everything I say" said no Guru Sahib ever. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had one true disciple and his name was Bhai Lehna. Is Bhai Lehna, (Guru Angad Dev Ji), going to be a sex and Haumai addict like your proposing? Your view of Sikhi is too small.

[DTF]

Guru Sahib did have an equal to an Anand Karaj.

D = I am saying Guru Nanak Dev Ji's marriage WAS the first Anand Karaj

D = I am asking would the protestors also have tried to block Guru Sahib's wedding using the same reasoning of a non-Sikh spouse?

His wife took Charan Pahul.

D = You might believe that Guru Sahib poured water over their toes which Mata Sulakhani drank. I don't believe that for a second.

D = I sincerely believe that Mata Sulakhani Ji became Sikh on bowing down before Shabad Guru (Ik Onkar scrawled on the Earth by Guru Sahib). A person that bows down in sincerity (which only Akaal Purakh can judge) before Guru Sahib is Sikh even if sehajdhari.

Guru Sahib's followers were always small in number, but he never said "go around and spread your Kaam and Haumai, forget everything I say" said no Guru Sahib ever. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had one true disciple and his name was Bhai Lehna. Is Bhai Lehna, (Guru Angad Dev Ji), going to be a sex and Haumai addict like your proposing? Your view of Sikhi is too small.

D = Gurmat (Sikhi) urges us to conquer kaam so how exactly is wanting Sikh demographics to grow for Sarbat da Bhala so that the constant sexual conditioning of capitalist societies has an alternative lifestyle, in your opinion, the equivalent of saying become a sex and haumai addict? I fail to see the extension of your logic.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Guru Sahib did have an equal to an Anand Karaj.

D = I am saying Guru Nanak Dev Ji's marriage WAS the first Anand Karaj

D = I am asking would the protestors also have tried to block Guru Sahib's wedding using the same reasoning of a non-Sikh spouse?

His wife took Charan Pahul.

D = You might believe that Guru Sahib poured water over their toes which Mata Sulakhani drank. I don't believe that for a second.

D = I sincerely believe that Mata Sulakhani Ji became Sikh on bowing down before Shabad Guru (Ik Onkar scrawled on the Earth by Guru Sahib). A person that bows down in sincerity (which only Akaal Purakh can judge) before Guru Sahib is Sikh even if sehajdhari.

Guru Sahib's followers were always small in number, but he never said "go around and spread your Kaam and Haumai, forget everything I say" said no Guru Sahib ever. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had one true disciple and his name was Bhai Lehna. Is Bhai Lehna, (Guru Angad Dev Ji), going to be a sex and Haumai addict like your proposing? Your view of Sikhi is too small.

D = Gurmat (Sikhi) urges us to conquer kaam so how exactly is wanting Sikh demographics to grow for Sarbat da Bhala so that the constant sexual conditioning of capitalist societies has an alternative lifestyle, in your opinion, the equivalent of saying become a sex and haumai addict? I fail to see the extension of your logic.

I'm just going to tell you, this website is called "SikhSangat.com" not, "BeSupperLiberal.com" it's clear you follow your own man, than Guru's Hukam and the historical facts.