Jump to content

why do non-sikhs love Zafarnama so much ?


jkvlondon
 Share

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Given the latest Zafarnama Cycle Yatra of Veer Pandit Rao, a question arises how comes our people don't love Zafarnama as much as foreigners who are now studying it in Iran?

 

 

Because since the 'annexation' Farsi skills amongst Panjabis has dwindled to nothing. Our lot simply don't understand it anymore, besides there are very subtle political allusions in the text that people would miss out on, unless they were familiar with ancient Persian literature. See this attachment (if you haven't already) to get an idea of this:

http://www.bhainandlal.com/website/ebooks/zafarnama.pdf

The last apna I knew who was fluent in Farsi was a Panjabi teacher in the 80s I had at senior school (he didn't stick around for too long). Remember during the Sikh empire many more people were fluent in the language which was the political lingua franca of the ruling classes. For instance Hari Singh Nalwa was fluent. Moghuls used to study and discuss old Persian manuscripts in their darbar.  After goray came, they made English the language of power, and I guess that the motivation for people to learn the language decreased significantly. After partition - there was little patronising of the language which leads us to today's situation that you mention.

I would imagine Zafarnama is of especial interest to nonSikh Farsi speakers because of its exoticism for them. Plus it gives an example of a significant religious and political figure's (dasmesh pita's) employment of the language. Linguists would be interested to analyse his style and references, and indeed ideas. Historians would also find it useful to extract contemporary information from. 

Zafarnama.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did know about the Shahnama written in Persia and the theory that Guru Pita had read it , makes sense as it is the most highly regarded Farsi poetry example up until Guru ji's time . There was a course run recently by gursikhs wanting to learn farsi to be able to understand Gurbani better from the School of Oriental and Asian studies , but unfortunately they haven't planned to repeat again , maybe if sangat contacted them again they might reconsider and place it online as well ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh, when i was younger, i made a mission in my mind, that i wud not only fully read/understand the zafarnama, but id learn farsi/persian to read it, as opposed to a simplified english translation. Trouble is though, the farsi/persian spoken in modern day iran is diluted and is not pure farsi. Infact, they say, that dari (east persian), which is spoken in afganistan, is the purest form of the old farsi left, to the point, afghans mock iranians for ditching it for their modern day rubbish. I remember watchin a documentary on iran presented by rageh omar, n they were using french phrases, like 'merci beaucoup' and 'bonjour', which i thought was ridiculous.

So it looks as though, if there is gonna be sum sort of persian/farsi revival, then it will have to come from our fellow afghan sikh brothers/sisters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Because since the 'annexation' Farsi skills amongst Panjabis has dwindled to nothing. Our lot simply don't understand it anymore, besides there are very subtle political allusions in the text that people would miss out on, unless they were familiar with ancient Persian literature. See this attachment (if you haven't already) to get an idea of this:

http://www.bhainandlal.com/website/ebooks/zafarnama.pdf

The last apna I knew who was fluent in Farsi was a Panjabi teacher in the 80s I had at senior school (he didn't stick around for too long). Remember during the Sikh empire many more people were fluent in the language which was the political lingua franca of the ruling classes. For instance Hari Singh Nalwa was fluent. Moghuls used to study and discuss old Persian manuscripts in their darbar.  After goray came, they made English the language of power, and I guess that the motivation for people to learn the language decreased significantly. After partition - there was little patronising of the language which leads us to today's situation that you mention.

I would imagine Zafarnama is of especial interest to nonSikh Farsi speakers because of its exoticism for them. Plus it gives an example of a significant religious and political figure's (dasmesh pita's) employment of the language. Linguists would be interested to analyse his style and references, and indeed ideas. Historians would also find it useful to extract contemporary information from. 

Zafarnama.jpg

 

Not just that, Dasam Bani in general is a mixture of so many different languages that most people find it too difficult to continue. Zafernama is an extremely accurate insight into the geo-political struggle taking part in India towards the end of Aurangzeb and the mughals as a whole. irrc the Farsi used in this even by the pure linguistic styles, its far above anything churned out in the region. I suppose to them its probably like what Shakespeare is to the english.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Kira said:

Not just that, Dasam Bani in general is a mixture of so many different languages that most people find it too difficult to continue. Zafernama is an extremely accurate insight into the geo-political struggle taking part in India towards the end of Aurangzeb and the mughals as a whole. irrc the Farsi used in this even by the pure linguistic styles, its far above anything churned out in the region. I suppose to them its probably like what Shakespeare is to the english.

How would we know unless it is compared with other contemporary Farsi communications between other regions and the central government? 

But I get your general point and wouldn't disagree with it an iota. Guru ji's work is (when I think about it now) an unparalleled, heartfelt, passionate use of the language that crosses religions and regions and cultures. Like a lot of written Sikh heritage it is unique, unprecedented and creative - in an era when convention was the norm 

Even when we zoom out to wider Sikh literature (which isn't literature to us but it is to outsiders studying it) that very thing has been alluded to by other observers. Even that low life, orientalist motivated scum Trumph (in amidst his sl@gging off of Sikhs and their religious scriptures) admits that Guru Granth Sahib ji maharaj is a treasure trove for linguistics. 

I don't think all of DG is as difficult to decipher (linguistically) as you seem to be suggesting. But what is difficult to ascertain is the hidden, esoteric nature of references within like Chandi, or shasternaam mala. I mean in comparison, the Panjabi Chandi kee vaar would be a LOT more accessible to the interested Panjabi Sikh than something like Zafarnama or other Braj-bhasa works. Remember knowledge of Braj-bhasha itself has dwindled to untold levels, when not long ago (the mid 1800s) , Sikh scholars were producing massive classics in this form (like Suraj Prakash). 

Guru Gobind Singh ji so obviously made being a polyglot a desired objective for Sikhs, it's another sign of our slide downwards that we've not moved forwards in this respect. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

How would we know unless it is compared with other contemporary Farsi communications between other regions and the central government? 

I swear I read about it somewhere, i'll need to do some digging and ill post here if I find it again.

Quote

 don't think all of DG is as difficult to decipher (linguistically) as you seem to be suggesting. But what is difficult to ascertain is the hidden, esoteric nature of references within like Chandi, or shasternaam mala. I mean in comparison, the Panjabi Chandi kee vaar would be a LOT more accessible to the interested Panjabi Sikh than something like Zafarnama or other Braj-bhasa works. Remember knowledge of Braj-bhasha itself has dwindled to untold levels, when not long ago (the mid 1800s) , Sikh scholars were producing massive classics in this form (like Suraj Prakash). 

I'm speaking from a purely bias perspective here, my parents were both raised in Punjab and attended punjabi schools. They told me that although they could read CHandi Di Vaar (they studied it at school) other Dasam Bani was alot harder. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should the Persian language even be called 'Farsi' because as far as I understand that it is how Arabs call it because they do not have "P" in their alphabet?

However it is natural for Iranians to be interested in the Zafarnama because it is Persian literature.

It would be the equivalent of reading Shakespeare for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jacfsing2
1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Should the Persian language even be called 'Farsi' because as far as I understand that it is how Arabs call it because they do not have "P" in their alphabet?

However it is natural for Iranians to be interested in the Zafarnama because it is Persian literature.

It would be the equivalent of reading Shakespeare for them.

Persians aren't Arabs, in fact Iranians hate Arabs, (that's surprising since they follow an Arab Supremacist religion), 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Further thoughts:

 

Zafarnama would also represent some sort of zenith of the use of Farsi, it also represents the peak and decline of the use of the language, so it would be interesting to people of Farsi heritage in that respect.

 

Another overlooked issue that has been touched on by some of the later posts above, is how Farsi (I think) represents Shia expression and culture as opposed to the majority Sunni. Shias and Sunnis (as most of us know) have had (and still have!) brutal conflicts with each other over religious doctrine. In that perspective Zafarnama is also symbolic of their culture being used to fearlessly confront and castigate a renown Sunni fundamentalist (Aurenga), so it would be inspiring for them in that sense. Some of them may well get a sense of Guru ji's independent spirit and stoicism in the face of extreme loss and be inspired by it. It would also be a model for leadership in trying times.   

 

Point is, it contains a lot and can be analysed from multiple perspectives that Farsi people would find relevant to their lives today. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • lol dal panth Panj told me explicitly not to associate with Vadhbhag Singh Sodhi followers!
    • We have lamp (or Jyot) the pure unscented candle for a reason. Traditionally, Patis used candle light (jyot), so they could read SGGS in darkness. Light, elec didn't exist. Dhoop is used to attract the "Good spirits" but also keep freshness where Maharaj will be.  Interestingly and coincidentally I heard Sakhi a few dsys ago. During Dasa Pitha's time these souls were roaming the Earth and even Sangat noticed. Maharaj asked them "y u here?" They replied during recitation of SGGS and making Degh they didn't bother lighting candle. THAT WAS THEE ONLY REASON NO GATI WAS GIVEN TO THEM!!!  AUTHENTICITY NOT CHECKED I heard once on YT like 2 days ago.  If u apply dhoop in one room of your house twice a week u will notice a difference esp in the smell and freshness of that room. 
    • Sangat ji, With the hot weather as per Guru's Hukm, how can we look after our kes?  First of all the beard! Working in Construction, factory and any other heated environment I UNDERSTAND! At my workplace it's over 32 degree celcius and sometimes we have to lift 20kg ALL! DAY! My tips, regularly shampoo the beard during ishnan. APPLY OIL! The technique of applying oil is by rubbing it thoroughly in the roots. Pay attention to the noise esp on the chin. You will hear this "crosh crosh" noise. Keep rubbing oil until u can't hear it no more! This means the oil has blended in properly.  Second tip on beard, keep an extra kanga in your pocket. Every two, three hours give your beard a proper comb down to get rid of any sweat or stickiness. SECOND BENEFIT! Do this all 12 months every single day your beard will look like it's been professionally groomed. TRY IT! People will ask you "What gel u use? How can yer beard be naturally like that?" You can say all I use is coconut oil or whaeva oil but just comb the beard every 2-3 hours for a minute.  As for the kes, morning time get rid of all the gronjra (or knots - forgotten English word), in the morning. However, during evening comb down make sure you get rid of small remaining gronjra and comb yer hair nice and straight. You will feel soooo so relaxed. Yes our hair will go unnoticed due to Dastar, but our hair demands time and self grooming!So proper combing down, spending a good 15-20 mins most evenings is an absolute MUST!  Most evenings I let my hair down and cover hair with my parna for 2-3 hours so it gets to relax from the tying up.  FINAL TIP! We are Sikhs so we keep fighting and remember this! The tradition of Dastar and uncut hair started in India, where the weather is twice as hot. Everytime we bring this thought in the mind, Guru ji will bless us and make us feel cooled down by a notch.  Fateh.       
    • Been so much nindya and attacking Shastarvidiya since the 2000s, however if we look at gatka now it's still mostly as poor and poorly taught as it was back then, still morris dancing moves and still behzti moves in BBC shows about sikhi and vaisakhi. If people were going to attack shastarvidiya, wouldn't have made sense to improve gatka instead and make it more effective? Additionally, the Nihang Singh presence has improved greatly now, and the cracks within the the SGPC and affiliated jatha jathebandis are showing more greatly as panth becomes more knowledgable with dasam bani and itihas day-by-day, so much gyaan which was lost within panjabi sikhs during colonial times. In the 2000s, the groups were able to talk down this bani and  gyaan by associating it with  RSS and hindus, brahminwaad etc. Not working so well now is it? However with gyaan it would be also good for us to try and preserve our martial arts and keertan vidiya as well! More and more crazy keertan videos are coming out from jatha members that are being made fun of and making sangat annoyed and upset, on tiktok and instagram reels.  
    • Author Posted April 24   On 4/21/2025 at 2:43 PM, ipledgeblue said: sirr should not be nanga because keski is usually worn.   Sikhs can sleep nanga-sirr if they choose to . Being from Punjab, almost every Sardaarji i know (amritdhari or not) sleeps/showers with their hair uncovered. I don't think Guru Sahib asked us to wear Dastar to sleep and I don't think it is in SRM.   The idea of "keski being worn to sleep" is cos in Bollywood films (Bachna Ae Haseeno) Sikh characters usually tie a gol parna when sleeping since the actor's usually Hindu. So they gotta cover his head somehow or he'd have cut hair. Same reason Diljit wore a pagg to bed in the El Sueno vid. Only time they didn't do that was in Gadar with Sunny Deol which just looked odd tbh   What in the world? What sikh or even a decent human would base their knowledge of their culture or religion on a movie industry, that too Bollywood?  Believe me, no sikh ever said, I must cover my head becasue an actor did so in a movie. I've been doing it all wrong, I must start covering mh head because the sikh in that movie did.  Just because every panjabi and sardaar you know, does something, also doesn't make it right..  Follow the guru. And if you have a medical condition, then exemptions can be made.  Just admit it, because of my medical condition, I am not able to follow this rehit. Why are you getting everyone else to drop to your level?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use