After Jat Sikh kills self upon discovering wife is Dalit, his brother refuses to marry her

[BhForce]

3 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I think the levirate marriage was known as chunni chardoni in jatt culture. The marriage ceremony is just giving the widows chunni to the groom.

Chunni charoni (as in giving a chunni to the widow signifying that you're under my protection now, that is, my wife now) is deprecated. The Sikh Rehit Maryada published by the SGPC says that you should conduct the full marriage ceremony (Anand Karaj) for a widow remarriage as for an initial marriage.

3 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Also wouldnt it result in polygamy, a man having two wives or more if he marries his brothers widows? Would that not be against sikh practices?

First of all, I was imagining the circumstance in which the younger brother wasn't married yet, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Polygamy is against mainstream Christian practices, but not historical Sikh practices (or historical Biblical practices). As for the Sikh Rehit Maryada (published by SGPC), it says that in normal circumstances, a Sikh should not have multiple wives. I would imagine that this would be considered an abnormal condition.

3 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Also would this not encourage fraticide in the community? 

I had not considered that. But I think the question of illicit lovers killing their lover's husband isn't restricted to younger brothers. Usually (as far as such murder cases appearing in the Tribune), it's a non-related illicit lover.

[BhForce]

3 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Also would this not encourage fraticide in the community? 

Oh, and also, Levirate marriage is usually considered for a situation in which the husband dies in some way (such as accident, heart attack, or whatever). I don't think the woman would want to marry the killer of her husband, so I don't think it would be encouraging fratricide in that way.

Only in the case of illicit relations between the brother and the woman. In which case, that's the same situation as with an illicit non-related lover.

[dallysingh101]

Juts have been marrying 'bhaiya-ranis' (or girls they've bought from passing travelling communities) for ages. I don't get what this guys problem was? 

[jkvlondon]

14 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yes, but if one was to strictly follow this idea, it would seem like incest. I don't know which values the family follows, but I don't think a Lerviate marriage should be encouraged. Usually there is something that will be a major problem.

this is honouring the protection promised to the girl by her in-laws ... not incest stop with the wrong use of terms , they are not related by blood . She was only married for seven days so I really doubt he has any feelings towards her in brotherly terms. I think however it is only right they make amends to her and settle her because it is their son's evil response that put her in that situation

[jkvlondon]

13 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I dont think im confusing the too. Polyandrous like the panduvs marriage  is really rare.

I think the levirate marriage was known as chunni chardoni in jatt culture. The marriage ceremony is just giving the widows chunni to the groom. Also wouldnt it result in polygamy, a man having two wives or more if he marries his brothers widows? Would that not be against sikh practices? 

Also would this not encourage fraticide in the community? 

 

the chunni is the literal symbol of protection i.e. your izzat is our izzat... the girl is wearing her parent's chunni and the in-laws one is placed on top. of this to double it. Nothing is higher for a sikh than the honour of a woman, so for Sikhs chunni chadona is an oath to protect beyond the relationship of man-wife. The other side of this is also parayi maat dhee bakane...so no fraticide is not going to happen in gurmat minded people. Remember THIS here is our true moral heritage from sikhi. Hindu mat abandon their widows and provide nothing to ensure their protection

 

[Not2Cool2Argue]

On 6/4/2017 at 1:34 PM, jkvlondon said:

the chunni is the literal symbol of protection i.e. your izzat is our izzat... the girl is wearing her parent's chunni and the in-laws one is placed on top. of this to double it. Nothing is higher for a sikh than the honour of a woman, so for Sikhs chunni chadona is an oath to protect beyond the relationship of man-wife. The other side of this is also parayi maat dhee bakane...so no fraticide is not going to happen in gurmat minded people. Remember THIS here is our true moral heritage from sikhi. Hindu mat abandon their widows and provide nothing to ensure their protection

 

I guess.it was a good tradition tho i have heard that ranjit singh the raja was married via the chunni chardoni method to some of his wives....in which case its a misuse of the method?

People in the olden days were very worldly wise, they seemed to have the best solution....levirate marriage solves the widow problem, and the stepfather problem, and instead of having the brother take care of the wife in a platonic way, they made it possible for them to be husband wife so if intimate relationships do develop, it wont have to be in a havey cavey, illicit way. But tho the system is good, as always i wonder how the individuals caught in it, persevered. I think, in.the end, it matters abt the behavior of the two, if both are decwnt human beings, then all is fine,.bit if one or the other is being forced,.then...also.i wonder how the jithaani duraani relationships went after

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I guess.it was a good tradition tho i have heard that ranjit singh the raja was married via the chunni chardoni method to some of his wives....in which case its a misuse of the method?

People in the olden days were very worldly wise, they seemed to have the best solution....levirate marriage solves the widow problem, and the stepfather problem, and instead of having the brother take care of the wife in a platonic way, they made it possible for them to be husband wife so if intimate relationships do develop, it wont have to be in a havey cavey, illicit way. But tho the system is good, as always i wonder how the individuals caught in it, persevered. I think, in.the end, it matters abt the behavior of the two, if both are decwnt human beings, then all is fine,.bit if one or the other is being forced,.then...also.i wonder how the jithaani duraani relationships went after

There was a film based on this 'ek chadar maili si' with Rishi Kapoor ...very thought provoking 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

On 6/4/2017 at 1:34 PM, jkvlondon said:

the chunni is the literal symbol of protection i.e. your izzat is our izzat... the girl is wearing her parent's chunni and the in-laws one is placed on top. of this to double it. Nothing is higher for a sikh than the honour of a woman, so for Sikhs chunni chadona is an oath to protect beyond the relationship of man-wife. The other side of this is also parayi maat dhee bakane...so no fraticide is not going to happen in gurmat minded people. Remember THIS here is our true moral heritage from sikhi. Hindu mat abandon their widows and provide nothing to ensure their protection

But in all seriousness, what benefit for Isaat would it be for this Jatt supremacist, if he were to marry this girl? I think this would've worked with old-minded people, because their minds were more stable and the world went much slower. Today, I don't think mentally any person could marry someone just for isaat. If they do, it's usually because the other person is atttactive and they want to marry them, not for Issat.

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

I guess.it was a good tradition tho i have heard that ranjit singh the raja was married via the chunni chardoni method to some of his wives....in which case its a misuse of the method?

People in the olden days were very worldly wise, they seemed to have the best solution....levirate marriage solves the widow problem, and the stepfather problem, and instead of having the brother take care of the wife in a platonic way, they made it possible for them to be husband wife so if intimate relationships do develop, it wont have to be in a havey cavey, illicit way. But tho the system is good, as always i wonder how the individuals caught in it, persevered. I think, in.the end, it matters abt the behavior of the two, if both are decwnt human beings, then all is fine,.bit if one or the other is being forced,.then...also.i wonder how the jithaani duraani relationships went after

chunni chadona is NOT the marriage ceremony in Sikhi just the rokhna stage of the process Anand Karaj is the only way . Ranjit SIngh married all sorts and all religions...I wouldn't look at him for advice on how to deal with relationships since it was transaction based