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Singh2017

Leather, Tabla of Goats Skin

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Gurus rejected torture and slavery of all living brings. Thus includes killing or torturing domesticated animals for meat and dairy or performing gruesome rituals like halal. The idea is to live a natural life in balance with nature. If hunting wild animals is part of your food chain and you do so sustainably and with utmost respect then its fine. All parts of the animal must be used and nothing wasted. Only few people have this need. The gurus hunted but were otherwise vegan. The shabad guru is very clear that its all about living naturally and ethically and with utmost respect for all life. The key is to use bibek, or in other words internalise the gurus teachings in the mind.

If it's not right or possible to hunt then the body of naturally deceased wild animals may be used, again with great respect and reverence and appreciation.

Guru jis shoes, water bottle, miyan, shield, instrument strings, tools etc were made by his own hand from hunted or naturally deceased wild animals.

Today However only a small handful of indigenous people have the need for and sufficient respect for mother earth to qualify for hunting.

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12 hours ago, EST1699 said:

Sikhs are vegetarian - yes.

According to?

Quote

There is never meat product/item in langar Hall.

This is no different to shops and restaurants omitting certain ingredients to fulfill certain dietary or religious requirements, not because meat itself is forbidden.

Quote

That one thing is very clear regardless of some people who don’t want to change their taste buds for sikhi. 

Tell that to all the Sikh owned veggie eateries which have menus just as long and extravagant as a place that serves meat, whose menus I might add, have an abundance of items designed to replicate the taste and texture of meat. Lets not also ignore the extortionate prices people are willing to pay for these pretend meat products - I guess they really have changed their tastebuds for Sikhi.

What's next, changing our sense of smell for Sikhi?

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Tabla is also made from animal skin. We’re they killed to make these product? I would say no. When they passed/die then the skin product comes out of it.

I'm no expert but I doubt the skin/hides of animals which died of natural causes were used. Skin from aged animals wouldn't be viable for use as it loses its properties over time.

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12 hours ago, EST1699 said:

Sikhs are vegetarian - yes. There is never meat product/item in langar Hall. That one thing is very clear regardless of some people who don’t want to change their taste buds for sikhi. 

Chaur sahib originally made from YAK hair or from horse hairs. Tabla is also made from animal skin. We’re they killed to make these product? I would say no. When they passed/die then the skin product comes out of it.

 

 

12 hours ago, EST1699 said:

Next time, please post proper tuk/stanza as this English translation belittle the actual meaning/concept of the Gurbani tukk.

ਹੋਇ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ ਬਕਰੀ ਦੀਨ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਪਾਈ।
Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.

ਮਰਣੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਜਗਿ ਭੋਗਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਰਾਈ।
On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat dis accepted.

ਮਾਸੁ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਸਤ ਨੋ ਆਂਦਹੁ ਤਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਵਜਾਈ।
Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.

ਚਮੜੇ ਦੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਜੁਤੀਆ ਸਾਧੂ ਚਰਣ ਸਰਣਿ ਲਿਵਲਾਈ।
From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.

ਤੂਰ ਪਖਾਵਜ ਮੜੀਦੇ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ।
Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.

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On 11/4/2017 at 6:44 AM, MrDoaba said:

Tell that to all the Sikh owned veggie eateries which have menus just as long and extravagant as a place that serves meat, whose menus I might add, have an abundance of items designed to replicate the taste and texture of meat. Lets not also ignore the extortionate prices people are willing to pay for these pretend meat products - I guess they really have changed their tastebuds for Sikhi.

I would not like to address the question of meat here.

But I would like to address the limited issue of imitation of meat products, brother.

I do know that American vegans have come up with something called Tofurky which is supposed to imitate turkey, but this sort of thing is not served in Indian restaurants, whether they're Sikh-owned or not. And certainly not an abundance of imitation meat. Non-veg Indian restaurants do serve stuff like tandoori chicken, but veg Indian restaurants do not serve imitation chicken legs; they simply don't serve chicken, period.

Paneer is not something that was dreamt up in the 21st century in order to imitate meat. Milk has been around for very long time. Paneer is just one more way to create dairy products. It's not an imitation of meat, maybe somebody who's unfamiliar with Indian food could call it an imitation of tofu, itself veg.

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3 hours ago, BhForce said:

I would not like to address the question of meat here.

But I would like to address the limited issue of imitation of meat products, brother.

I do know that American vegans have come up with something called Tofurky which is supposed to imitate turkey, but this sort of thing is not served in Indian restaurants, whether they're Sikh-owned or not. And certainly not an abundance of imitation meat. Non-veg Indian restaurants do serve stuff like tandoori chicken, but veg Indian restaurants do not serve imitation chicken legs; they simply don't serve chicken, period.

Paneer is not something that was dreamt up in the 21st century in order to imitate meat. Milk has been around for very long time. Paneer is just one more way to create dairy products. It's not an imitation of meat, maybe somebody who's unfamiliar with Indian food could call it an imitation of tofu, itself veg.

There are now many veg Indian takeaways (mostly owned by Sikhs) who do, infact, sell imitation drumsticks, that even go as far as to include an imitation bone, which is made of bamboo I believe. They also sell imitation chicken nuggets, imitation fish, and even imitation donner! These types of veg takeways have been around for a few years and are now gaining a lot of popularity all over the place.

Here is one such example, just look at their menu: https://en-gb.facebook.com/MrVeggiePizza/

Granted that most of these products are made out of something which itself is veg (soya, tofu, certain types of fungi) as you said, but the fact remains that they are created with the intent to replicate the taste, texture, and now even the experience of eating real meat. This comes back to my initial point - jeeb da svaad, and the notion that it somehow does not apply to vegetarians.

Paneer is a legit dairy product and I don't/won't include it as an imitation meat product. As far as I'm aware paneer was created to make use of milk which had gone bad or was at risk of going bad.

I'm not bashing those who eat this stuff, khao jo khaana ah - but I will bash them if they villainize those who eat meat with their flawed logic.

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17 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

There are now many veg Indian takeaways (mostly owned by Sikhs) who do, infact, sell imitation drumsticks, that even go as far as to include an imitation bone, which is made of bamboo I believe. They also sell imitation chicken nuggets, imitation fish, and even imitation donner! These types of veg takeways have been around for a few years and are now gaining a lot of popularity all over the place.

Here is one such example, just look at their menu: https://en-gb.facebook.com/MrVeggiePizza/

Granted that most of these products are made out of something which itself is veg (soya, tofu, certain types of fungi) as you said, but the fact remains that they are created with the intent to replicate the taste, texture, and now even the experience of eating real meat. This comes back to my initial point - jeeb da svaad, and the notion that it somehow does not apply to vegetarians.

Paneer is a legit dairy product and I don't/won't include it as an imitation meat product. As far as I'm aware paneer was created to make use of milk which had gone bad or was at risk of going bad.

I'm not bashing those who eat this stuff, khao jo khaana ah - but I will bash them if they villainize those who eat meat with their flawed logic.

100% the Veggie patrol are just as hypocritical as the Meat munchers. Learn a thing from people like the old taksalis, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji had so much respect for the Nihungs even though they ate meat. One issue didn't divide them and they were so much more united, nowadays we have psudeosikhs calling others sinners for eating a simple chicken stick, while they ravage their pakoras like no end.

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guess best advice is Guru Sahiban's to only eat wild chatka as that meat is healthier , to kill with daya in one strike if one chooses to... but only eat to smallest need whatever you eat not to go for swad ras , and become laalchi which will cause disease and pain ultimately

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3 hours ago, Kira said:

100% the Veggie patrol are just as hypocritical as the Meat munchers. Learn a thing from people like the old taksalis, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji had so much respect for the Nihungs even though they ate meat. One issue didn't divide them and they were so much more united, nowadays we have psudeosikhs calling others sinners for eating a simple chicken stick, while they ravage their pakoras like no end.

Very true. 

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21 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

There are now many veg Indian takeaways (mostly owned by Sikhs) who do, infact, sell imitation drumsticks, that even go as far as to include an imitation bone, which is made of bamboo I believe. They also sell imitation chicken nuggets, imitation fish, and even imitation donner! These types of veg takeways have been around for a few years and are now gaining a lot of popularity all over the place.

Here is one such example, just look at their menu: https://en-gb.facebook.com/MrVeggiePizza/

OK, thanks for the clarification, and the link.

On the one hand, I don't see any problem with 

-veg sandwiches. There's nothing to say that each and every sandwich on this earth has the have the same exact ingredients as a Big Mac.

-veg kebabs: Nothing to say that if some people roast meat on a stick, that vegetarians can't roast sabzis on a stick

-veg pizza: Add whatever toppings you like or don't like. Even meat-eaters are picky about their preferred toppings.

But what in the world could possess someone to dream up "veg lamb kofta", "veg style chicken tikka", "veg pepperoni", "veg style meat feast", "veg fish"??

Again, while not getting into the question of meat per se, I would like to state that there's nothing that special about meat that you have to go to ridiculous extents to imitate it. I would not say that that is a healthy vegetarianism. To the contrary, I think that people who eat this sort of thing are setting themselves up for eventually eating meat, being as they are constantly conditioning their brain in a Pavlovian manner to crave and desire meat.

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