Jump to content

Would A Transgender Amritdhari Sikh Be A Singh or Kaur?


TheeTurbanator
 Share

Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, InderjitS said:

In simple terms you're saying they became Mukht without physical presence of Satguru which in Gurbani as per my understanding is one and no other.

btw this requires a separate topic, it's not suitable with the heading

Nirgun parmeshvar has taken avtar as satguru in every yug.... our gurmantar reflects this according to Bhai gurdwara Ji 

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 Waheguru mantar

ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of satigur Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

Line 1 

ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

Line 2 

ਤੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ।

taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

Line 3 

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ ।

kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

Line 4

ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ।

chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|

The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

Line 5 

ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered

 

There are 6 different types of avtar of parmeshvar.... but not all are classed as satguru.... those that were are spoken about in above vaar by Bhai Gurdas Ji

Nirgun parmeshvar is ever present & all pervading.... those who do aradhna of nirgun parmeshvar thier need for a physical guru is almost non existent because they have passed that stage..... it is their guru who instructs them to do advait saroop bhagti.... and the beauty is that when they realise nirgun parmeshvar they realise that their guru was nirgun parmeshvar in sargun form all along.... the 5 types of mukhti determines to what extent the veil of separation is lifted 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 Waheguru mantar

ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of satigur Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

Line 1 

ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

Line 2 

ਤੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ।

taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

Line 3 

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ ।

kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

Line 4

ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ।

chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|

The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

Line 5 

ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,

 

 

Shows how much you know....... let me guess..... Bhai Gurdas Ji was wrong?! 

Bachiittar natak is way too advanced for you to understand...

Bhai Gurdas ji is not wrong.  Your interpretation of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaar is wrong.  In the Taksal Sampooran Rehras Sahib, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says the following:

Chopei

Mai ‘N’ ganays(i) pritham manaaoo(n)| kisan bisan kabhoo(n) neh dhiaaoo(n)

I do not praise or hail Ganesh before I start any task. (In old times, often Ganesh would be hailed before starting any task). Nor do I let the thought of Vishnu or any incarnations of Vishnu (i.e. Krishna) enter my mind. (Meaning Guru Gobind Singh Ji never regarded Vishnu or any avatars as the supreme Lord; Akaal purakh, as he states next.)

Kaan sunay pahichaan ‘N’ thin so| liv laagee more pag in so

I know of their existence, but I do not ever worship them. May my prayers and thoughts always be in the immaculate, holy feet of the Lord (the one and only).

In the above Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji we can see how Guru Sahib is saying, he does not even have a thought (does not praise) of Vishnu and his incarnations enter his mind.  If Vishnu and Krishna were Satguru, then why doesn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji even think of them when praising Vaheguru?  Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says, I know of there existence but I do not worship them and I am attached to the Lord's feet.  Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji praises and thinks and worships the nine Gurus before him as we see in Bachittar Natak as stated in our Khalsa Panth daily ardas; from Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Teg Bahadur ji.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Bhai Gurdas ji is not wrong.  Your interpretation of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaar is wrong.  In the Taksal Sampooran Rehras Sahib, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says the following:

Chopei

Mai ‘N’ ganays(i) pritham manaaoo(n)| kisan bisan kabhoo(n) neh dhiaaoo(n)

I do not praise or hail Ganesh before I start any task. (In old times, often Ganesh would be hailed before starting any task). Nor do I let the thought of Vishnu or any incarnations of Vishnu (i.e. Krishna) enter my mind. (Meaning Guru Gobind Singh Ji never regarded Vishnu or any avatars as the supreme Lord; Akaal purakh, as he states next.)

Kaan sunay pahichaan ‘N’ thin so| liv laagee more pag in so

I know of their existence, but I do not ever worship them. May my prayers and thoughts always be in the immaculate, holy feet of the Lord (the one and only).

In the above Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji we can see how Guru Sahib is saying, he does not even have a thought (does not praise) of Vishnu and his incarnations enter his mind.  If Vishnu and Krishna were Satguru, then why doesn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji even think of them when praising Vaheguru?  Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says, I know of there existence but I do not worship them and I am attached to the Lord's feet.  Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji praises and thinks and worships the nine Gurus before him as we see in Bachittar Natak as stated in our Khalsa Panth daily ardas; from Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Teg Bahadur ji.

 

The interpretation of Bhai gurdas vaar is not wrong.... your understanding of Dasam Bani is incomplete.

that ‘chopei’ is from krishna avtar Bani... hence why mahraj mentions Vishnu but also Krishna. 

To renounce or ignore something (ganesh, Vishnu etc) in light of praising something else (in this case mahakaal) that does not mean the original is to be totally neglected..... if that was the case the whole of chaubis avtar Bani would be a waste of time. It has to be read with a different mindset & then taken as part of a whole picture that Dasam Bani paints, don’t make judgments based on 1 pangti.... every Bani has an unthanika.... it’s important to learn these.

the reason Guru Gobind singh Ji does not even think about krishna & Vishnu despite them being satguru is simple.... they were satgurus of previous yugs.... mahraj is here as the messenger & guru in Kalyug... they will attach us to that which is the medicine in Kalyug... in this case Guru Nanak & vaheguru etc.

Would you go to a retired doctor who uses old methods & out of date medicines or would you go to a current active doctor who has the latest & most effective medicine available?  

You have to remember nearly all the population at that time would have been followers of krishna, Rama etc... so mahraj in poetic form through gurbani had to change that mindset so that they could get people on the right treatment plan in Kalyug.... this does not change the fact that in previous yugs avtars of Vishnu were the satgurus of those yugs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/02/2018 at 4:31 AM, Akalifauj said:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji didn't discriminate between satguru as their is only one same satguru for every yug.  He told us to praise, worship, meditate on the one and only satguru.  He wrote about the 24 incarnations of Vishnu and he corrected what happened actually to the 24 incarnations.  If Krishna and Vishnu were satguru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji would have said it in his writing about them.  Instead he wrote to say I don't praise them or think of them, I hold Mahakaal ( which translates into Vaheguru in this context as he is the destroyer of all) praise only in my mind.

Ok.... please do kirpa on us all & give us the correct interpretation of Bhai gurdas Ji’s // below 

Vaar 1 Pauri 49 Waheguru mantar

ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

satijugi satigur vaasadayv vavaa visanaa naamu japaavai|

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of satigur Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

Line 1 

ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

duaapari satigur haree krisan haahaa hari hari naamu japaavai|

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

Line 2 

ਤੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ।

taytay satigur raam jee raaraa raam japay sukhu paavai|

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

Line 3 

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ ।

kalijugi naanak gur gobind gagaa gobind naamu alaavai|

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

Line 4

ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ।

chaaray jaagay chahu jugee panchaain vichi jaai samaavai|

The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

Line 5 

ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ ।

chaaro achhar iku kari vaahaguroo japu mantr japaavai|

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered

 

 

Your level of understanding Dasam Bani is inadequate...... mahraj uses a literary approach known as ‘posht lushtika alankaar’..... it is obvious from what you have written that you are nowhere near the level required to understand Dasam Bani as a whole...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. From Sargun Perspective- Primordial Satguru (Sat Chit- Eternal all pervading Awareness- Nanak- Pure Awareness/Vahiguru  in previous yugas-immanent its various attributes(out of infinite) into various kala avtars -highest being in previous yugas-Krishna and highest sargun avtar in kalyug- Sargun Satguru nanak. In the japji sahib teeka six types of avtars -ansa, aveshya, kala, nit, namit, poran avtar ram.-14 and 16  being krishan are mentioned along with sarab kala barpoor- satguru nanak being avtar of parbhram.

Gurbani talks about avtar of vahiguroo in each age to propagate and uphold dharma

Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara. (Sri Dasam Granth)

Jug Jug Satgur Dhare Avtari (Bhai Gurdas Ji)

Sathajug Thai Maaniou Shhaliou Bal Baavan Bhaaeiou ||

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

2. There are many examples in gurbani. 

ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥
चरन बधिक जन तेऊ मुकति भए ॥
Cẖaran baḏẖik jan ṯe▫ū mukaṯ bẖa▫e.
The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.

ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੇ ॥੧॥
हउ बलि बलि जिन राम कहे ॥१॥
Ha▫o bal bal jin rām kahe. ||1||
I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who chant the Lord's Name. ||1||

ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
निराहारी निरवैरु समाइआ ॥
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
धारि खेलु चतुरभुजु कहाइआ ॥
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥
सावल सुंदर रूप बणावहि बेणु सुनत सभ मोहैगा ॥९॥
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥
बनमाला बिभूखन कमल नैन ॥

He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥
सुंदर कुंडल मुकट बैन ॥
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥
संख चक्र गदा है धारी महा सारथी सतसंगा ॥१०॥

He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||


3. From Nirgun, non duality-advait perspective-  Off course previous avtars were rejected-called worms, were subjected to kaal because of five element transient nature, this has to be looked at from same point of view -a) rejection of sargun avtars as they are part of 5 elemental play- so one can transcendent in their spirituality-spiritual development from sargun into nirgun worship (personal to impersonal worship of god). 

 Sri Guru gobind singh ji himself also told his followers- 

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |
Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop subjected to 5 elemental play, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan.


Sikhi upholds Absolute truth all the time but while upholding Absolute truth it also praises relative realities as well- for example- vahiguru ji avtar of narsingh we read every day in asa di vaaar- rehras sahib- Vahiguru saved bhagat parlhad ji in Narsingh form:

Har Jug Jug Bhagat Upaaiya, Paij Rakhda Aaaiya Ram Rajai
Harnakash Dusth Har Maaraya Parhlad Taariaya
Ahankarye Nindakha Pitta Daie, Namdev Mukh Laaiya
Jan Nanak Aisae Har Seevaaiya, Ant Leh chadaya ||

Gurmat is bhagti-relative-sargun / gyan-nirgun- absolute blended beautifully- somacha vaad (combined/blended)


One of vedic scholar also provides commentary and contextualization on rejection of avtars in sri dasam granth sahib:

Quote

Yes, it is from Dasam Patshah and its from the perspective of transcendence, from Awareness/consciousness/the Absolute, where all that is manifest belongs to prakrti. Krishna has a similar attitude to the Veda in the Bhagavad Gita. Don't treat paramarthic khandans as vyavaharic khandans. You may not be aware that you're doing this because these things may be new to you but we in the Sanatan world are familiar with such context- specific khandans. They're everywhere in 'Hindu' texts. The Guru is simply writing in this spirit. Even modern mystics like Nisargadatta Maharaj have said things like this. It's not such a 'new religion forming' big deal!

Attachment- Six types of avtar and Satguru nanak being highest of all-avtar of bhram.

5a8dc3ab1bd3d_sixtypesofavtarpart1.PNG.00db8163eb1e0e763a0f367c7e38bb59.PNG

 

5a8dc3accd0c3_sixtypesofavtarpart2.PNG.84120eb2659c6b880fb453cb706854a2.PNG5a8dc5cee9a6b_satgurunanakavtarofparbhram.jpg.853c5174cb01052003cd5bfadd63c8ca.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, N30S1NGH said:

1. From Sargun Perspective- Primordial Satguru (Sat Chit- Eternal all pervading Awareness- Nanak- Pure Awareness/Vahiguru  in previous yugas-immanent its various attributes(out of infinite) into various kala avtars -highest being in previous yugas-Krishna and highest sargun avtar in kalyug- Sargun Satguru nanak. In the japji sahib teeka six types of avtars -ansa, aveshya, kala, nit, namit, poran avtar ram.-14 and 16  being krishan are mentioned along with sarab kala barpoor- satguru nanak being avtar of parbhram.

Gurbani talks about avtar of vahiguroo in each age to propagate and uphold dharma

Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara. (Sri Dasam Granth)

Jug Jug Satgur Dhare Avtari (Bhai Gurdas Ji)

Sathajug Thai Maaniou Shhaliou Bal Baavan Bhaaeiou ||

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||
The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

2. There are many examples in gurbani. 

ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥
चरन बधिक जन तेऊ मुकति भए ॥
Cẖaran baḏẖik jan ṯe▫ū mukaṯ bẖa▫e.
The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.

ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੇ ॥੧॥
हउ बलि बलि जिन राम कहे ॥१॥
Ha▫o bal bal jin rām kahe. ||1||
I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who chant the Lord's Name. ||1||

ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
निराहारी निरवैरु समाइआ ॥
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.

ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
धारि खेलु चतुरभुजु कहाइआ ॥
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥
सावल सुंदर रूप बणावहि बेणु सुनत सभ मोहैगा ॥९॥
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||

ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥
बनमाला बिभूखन कमल नैन ॥

He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.

ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥
सुंदर कुंडल मुकट बैन ॥
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥
संख चक्र गदा है धारी महा सारथी सतसंगा ॥१०॥

He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||


3. From Nirgun, non duality-advait perspective-  Off course previous avtars were rejected-called worms, were subjected to kaal because of five element transient nature, this has to be looked at from same point of view -a) rejection of sargun avtars as they are part of 5 elemental play- so one can transcendent in their spirituality-spiritual development from sargun into nirgun worship (personal to impersonal worship of god). 

 Sri Guru gobind singh ji himself also told his followers- 

jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai |
Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell.

This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop subjected to 5 elemental play, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan.


Sikhi upholds Absolute truth all the time but while upholding Absolute truth it also praises relative realities as well- for example- vahiguru ji avtar of narsingh we read every day in asa di vaaar- rehras sahib- Vahiguru saved bhagat parlhad ji in Narsingh form:

Har Jug Jug Bhagat Upaaiya, Paij Rakhda Aaaiya Ram Rajai
Harnakash Dusth Har Maaraya Parhlad Taariaya
Ahankarye Nindakha Pitta Daie, Namdev Mukh Laaiya
Jan Nanak Aisae Har Seevaaiya, Ant Leh chadaya ||

Gurmat is bhagti-relative-sargun / gyan-nirgun- absolute blended beautifully- somacha vaad (combined/blended)


One of vedic scholar also provides commentary and contextualization on rejection of avtars in sri dasam granth sahib:

Attachment- Six types of avtar and Satguru nanak being highest of all-avtar of bhram.

5a8dc3ab1bd3d_sixtypesofavtarpart1.PNG.00db8163eb1e0e763a0f367c7e38bb59.PNG

 

5a8dc3accd0c3_sixtypesofavtarpart2.PNG.84120eb2659c6b880fb453cb706854a2.PNG5a8dc5cee9a6b_satgurunanakavtarofparbhram.jpg.853c5174cb01052003cd5bfadd63c8ca.jpg

is that from Japji Sahib Teeka by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji?

its always interesting viewing things from 2 perspectives. Lately I've tried doing that with Dasam Bani and its totally changed for me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • We have lamp (or Jyot) the pure unscented candle for a reason. Traditionally, Patis used candle light (jyot), so they could read SGGS in darkness. Light, elec didn't exist. Dhoop is used to attract the "Good spirits" but also keep freshness where Maharaj will be.  Interestingly and coincidentally I heard Sakhi a few dsys ago. During Dasa Pitha's time these souls were roaming the Earth and even Sangat noticed. Maharaj asked them "y u here?" They replied during recitation of SGGS and making Degh they didn't bother lighting candle. THAT WAS THEE ONLY REASON NO GATI WAS GIVEN TO THEM!!!  AUTHENTICITY NOT CHECKED I heard once on YT like 2 days ago.  If u apply dhoop in one room of your house twice a week u will notice a difference esp in the smell and freshness of that room. 
    • Sangat ji, With the hot weather as per Guru's Hukm, how can we look after our kes?  First of all the beard! Working in Construction, factory and any other heated environment I UNDERSTAND! At my workplace it's over 32 degree celcius and sometimes we have to lift 20kg ALL! DAY! My tips, regularly shampoo the beard during ishnan. APPLY OIL! The technique of applying oil is by rubbing it thoroughly in the roots. Pay attention to the noise esp on the chin. You will hear this "crosh crosh" noise. Keep rubbing oil until u can't hear it no more! This means the oil has blended in properly.  Second tip on beard, keep an extra kanga in your pocket. Every two, three hours give your beard a proper comb down to get rid of any sweat or stickiness. SECOND BENEFIT! Do this all 12 months every single day your beard will look like it's been professionally groomed. TRY IT! People will ask you "What gel u use? How can yer beard be naturally like that?" You can say all I use is coconut oil or whaeva oil but just comb the beard every 2-3 hours for a minute.  As for the kes, morning time get rid of all the gronjra (or knots - forgotten English word), in the morning. However, during evening comb down make sure you get rid of small remaining gronjra and comb yer hair nice and straight. You will feel soooo so relaxed. Yes our hair will go unnoticed due to Dastar, but our hair demands time and self grooming!So proper combing down, spending a good 15-20 mins most evenings is an absolute MUST!  Most evenings I let my hair down and cover hair with my parna for 2-3 hours so it gets to relax from the tying up.  FINAL TIP! We are Sikhs so we keep fighting and remember this! The tradition of Dastar and uncut hair started in India, where the weather is twice as hot. Everytime we bring this thought in the mind, Guru ji will bless us and make us feel cooled down by a notch.  Fateh.       
    • Been so much nindya and attacking Shastarvidiya since the 2000s, however if we look at gatka now it's still mostly as poor and poorly taught as it was back then, still morris dancing moves and still behzti moves in BBC shows about sikhi and vaisakhi. If people were going to attack shastarvidiya, wouldn't have made sense to improve gatka instead and make it more effective? Additionally, the Nihang Singh presence has improved greatly now, and the cracks within the the SGPC and affiliated jatha jathebandis are showing more greatly as panth becomes more knowledgable with dasam bani and itihas day-by-day, so much gyaan which was lost within panjabi sikhs during colonial times. In the 2000s, the groups were able to talk down this bani and  gyaan by associating it with  RSS and hindus, brahminwaad etc. Not working so well now is it? However with gyaan it would be also good for us to try and preserve our martial arts and keertan vidiya as well! More and more crazy keertan videos are coming out from jatha members that are being made fun of and making sangat annoyed and upset, on tiktok and instagram reels.  
    • Author Posted April 24   On 4/21/2025 at 2:43 PM, ipledgeblue said: sirr should not be nanga because keski is usually worn.   Sikhs can sleep nanga-sirr if they choose to . Being from Punjab, almost every Sardaarji i know (amritdhari or not) sleeps/showers with their hair uncovered. I don't think Guru Sahib asked us to wear Dastar to sleep and I don't think it is in SRM.   The idea of "keski being worn to sleep" is cos in Bollywood films (Bachna Ae Haseeno) Sikh characters usually tie a gol parna when sleeping since the actor's usually Hindu. So they gotta cover his head somehow or he'd have cut hair. Same reason Diljit wore a pagg to bed in the El Sueno vid. Only time they didn't do that was in Gadar with Sunny Deol which just looked odd tbh   What in the world? What sikh or even a decent human would base their knowledge of their culture or religion on a movie industry, that too Bollywood?  Believe me, no sikh ever said, I must cover my head becasue an actor did so in a movie. I've been doing it all wrong, I must start covering mh head because the sikh in that movie did.  Just because every panjabi and sardaar you know, does something, also doesn't make it right..  Follow the guru. And if you have a medical condition, then exemptions can be made.  Just admit it, because of my medical condition, I am not able to follow this rehit. Why are you getting everyone else to drop to your level?
    • Wasn't Guru Arjan Dev's martyrdom on amd always commemorated on 6th June? How come it was 30th May?  Just like 6th June 84, where the likes of Terrorists like Indira Gandhi chose to attack Darbar Sahib where many many innocent Sikhs would suffer, as they went to commemorate Martyrdom of Maharaj. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use