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Both of these faiths are mirror image. None of them can be trusted. In the past they have even used each other to spread (e.g Indonesia).

There is chapter in the Quran called Isa (Jesus) and hailed as a prophet of Allah.

Christians call all non-Christian as heathens (infidels).

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30 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

Both of these faiths are mirror image. None of them can be trusted. In the past they have even used each other to spread (e.g Indonesia).

There is chapter in the Quran called Isa (Jesus) and hailed as a prophet of Allah.

Christians call all non-Christian as heathens (infidels).

It should be obvious from my post history that I have no love lost for the British who destroyed our Sikh Raaj.

But, in the present day, if you were given the choice to live in a random Christian country vs. a random Muslim country, which would you choose?

Don't lie, please.

Oh, also, 99% chance you're posting this from a non-Muslim country, likely Christian.

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Islam was spread with violence, fear and murder, Now that it has geographically stopped spreading and reached its limit now they have turned on each other and are killing one another. Something that begins and spreads with violence eventually reaches a limit and then turns on itself and becomes self destructive. Since the recent Saudi and Iran proxy war started in Yemen, around 10,000 Muslims in Yemen have died. Sunnis and Shias are killing each other in the middle east everyday. More muslims have been killed by the taliban and ISIS than non Muslims, in fact muslims have suffered much more under these terrorist groups than non muslims. 

 

Well the reason that Muslims say that Islam came was because the previous religions Judaism and Christianity had become corrupt. So Muslims do not deny any of the prophets and see jesus as one too. Difference is Muslims dont believe  that Jesus was god or the son of god and that he didn't die on the cross 

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

Islam was spread with violence, fear and murder, Now that it has geographically stopped spreading and reached its limit now they have turned on each other and are killing one another. Something that begins and spreads with violence eventually reaches a limit and then turns on itself and becomes self destructive. Since the recent Saudi and Iran proxy war started in Yemen, around 10,000 Muslims in Yemen have died. Sunnis and Shias are killing each other in the middle east everyday. More muslims have been killed by the taliban and ISIS than non Muslims, in fact muslims have suffered much more under these terrorist groups than non muslims. 

 

Well the reason that Muslims say that Islam came was because the previous religions Judaism and Christianity had become corrupt. So Muslims do not deny any of the prophets and see jesus as one too. Difference is Muslims dont believe  that Jesus was god or the son of god and that he didn't die on the cross 

same with early christianity and that which foillowed the pioneering explorers to the new world .

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

Islam was spread with violence, fear and murder, Now that it has geographically stopped spreading and reached its limit now they have turned on each other and are killing one another. 

Now? They've fought each other ever since the death of Mohammed. The issue of who becomes the caliph of Muslims is the essence of the Sunni-Shia divide. That didn't happen 50 years ago; they've been at it since 632AD.

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

same with early christianity and that which foillowed the pioneering explorers to the new world .

Yeah! Even though Christians are peaceful today Christianity has a very dark and bloody past. The inquisitions, witch hunts, puritans etc Even the long history of the popes is full of murder, genocide, rape, adultery, incest, pedophilia etc   

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57 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Now? They've fought each other ever since the death of Mohammed. The issue of who becomes the caliph of Muslims is the essence of the Sunni-Shia divide. That didn't happen 50 years ago; they've been at it since 632AD.

Yeah but what i meant is that when Islam was spreading all the way from Arabia to India and beyond it was basically slaughtering non muslims but now that it has geographically stopped spreading they have no one else to kill other than each other and thats what they are basically doing. 

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But at least Christians have changed, Muslims can learn from them ...  

Even Hindus have changed, not long ago they were burning widows and pouring boiling water/oil into the ears of shudras who accidentally heard the vedas. The way Hinduism was practiced especially by the brahmins was pure evil and not too long ago either 

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2 hours ago, puzzled said:

But at least Christians have changed, Muslims can learn from them ...  

Even Hindus have changed, not long ago they were burning widows and pouring boiling water/oil into the ears of shudras who accidentally heard the vedas. The way Hinduism was practiced especially by the brahmins was pure evil and not too long ago either 

molten lead in ears , or like Ram lopping off heads

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Here are some laws of Manu from the manusmriti 

1. “Swabhav ev narinam …..” – 2/213. It is the nature of women to seduce men in this world; for that reason the wise are never unguarded in the company of females.

2. “Avidvam samlam………..” – 2/214. Women, true to their class character, are capable of leading astray men in this world, not only a fool but even a learned and wise man. Both become slaves of desire.

3. “Matra swastra ………..” – 2/215. Wise people should avoid sitting alone with one’s mother, daughter or sister. Since carnal desire is always strong, it can lead to temptation.

4. “Naudwahay……………..” – 3/8. One should not marry women who has have reddish hair, redundant  parts of the body [such as six fingers], one who is often sick, one without hair or having excessive hair and one who has red eyes.

5. “Nraksh vraksh ………..” – 3/9. One should not marry women whose names are similar to constellations,  trees, rivers, those from a low caste, mountains, birds, snakes, slaves or those whose names inspires terror.

6. “Yasto na bhavet ….. …..” – 3/10. Wise men should not marry women who do not have a brother and whose parents are not socially well known.

7. “Uchayangh…………….” – 3/11. Wise men should marry only women who are free from bodily defects, with beautiful names, grace/gait like an elephant, moderate hair on the head and body, soft limbs and small teeth.

8. “Shudr-aiv bharya………” – 3/12.Brahman men can marry Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaish and even Shudra women but Shudra men can marry only Shudra women.

9. “Na Brahman kshatriya..” – 3/14. Although Brahman, Kshatriya and Vaish men have been allowed inter-caste marriages, even in distress they should not marry Shudra women.

10. “Heenjati striyam……..” – 3/15. When twice born [dwij=Brahman, Kshatriya and Vaish] men in their folly marry low caste Shudra women, they are responsible for the degradation of their whole family. Accordingly, their children adopt all the demerits of the Shudra caste.

11. “Shudram shaynam……” – 3/17. A Brahman who marries a Shudra woman, degrades himself and his whole family  ,becomes morally degenerated , loses Brahman status and his children too attain status  of shudra.

12. “Daiv pitrya………………” – 3/18. The offerings made by such a person at the time of established rituals are neither accepted by God nor by the departed soul; guests also refuse to have meals with him and he is bound to go to hell after death.

13. “Chandalash ……………” – 3/240. Food offered and served to Brahman after Shradh ritual should not be seen by a chandal, a pig, a cock,a dog, and a menstruating women.

14. “Na ashniyat…………….” – 4/43. A Brahman, true defender of his class, should not have his meals in the company of his wife  and even avoid looking at her. Furthermore, he should not look towards her when she is having her meals or when she sneezes/yawns.

15. “Na ajyanti……………….” – 4/44. A Brahman in order to preserve his energy and intellect, must not look at women who applies collyrium to her eyes, one who is massaging her nude body or one who is delivering a child.

16. “Mrshyanti…………….” – 4/217. One should not accept meals from a woman who has extra marital relations; nor from a family exclusively dominated/managed by women or a family whose 10 days of impurity because of death have not passed.

17. “Balya va………………….” – 5/150. A female child, young woman or old woman is not supposed to work independently even at her place of residence.

18. “Balye pitorvashay…….” – 5/151. Girls are supposed to be in the custody of their father when they are children, women must be under the custody of their husband when married and under the custody of her son as widows. In no circumstances is she allowed to assert herself independently.

19. “Asheela  kamvrto………” – 5/157. Men may be lacking virtue, be sexual perverts, immoral and devoid of any good qualities, and yet women must constantly worship and serve their husbands.

20. “Na ast strinam………..” – 5/158. Women have no divine right to perform any religious ritual, nor make vows or observe a fast. Her only duty is to obey and please her husband and she will for that reason alone be exalted in heaven.

21. “Kamam to………………” – 5/160. At her pleasure [after the death of her husband], let her emaciate her body by living only on pure flowers, roots of vegetables and fruits. She must not even mention the name of any other men after her husband has died.

22. “Vyabhacharay…………” – 5/167. Any women violating duty and code of conduct towards her husband, is disgraced and becomes a patient of leprosy. After death, she enters womb of Jackal.

23. “Kanyam bhajanti……..” – 8/364. In case women enjoy sex with a man from a higher caste, the act is not punishable. But on the contrary, if women enjoy sex with lower caste men, she is to be punished and kept in isolation.

24. “Utmam sevmansto…….” – 8/365. In case a man from a lower caste enjoys sex with a woman from a higher caste, the person in question is to be awarded the death sentence. And if a person satisfies his carnal desire with women of his own caste, he should be asked to pay compensation to the women’s faith.

25. “Ya to kanya…………….” – 8/369. In case a woman tears the membrane [hymen] of her <banned word filter activated>, she shall instantly have her head shaved or two fingers cut off and made to ride on Donkey.

26. “Bhartaram…………….” – 8/370. In case a women, proud of the greatness of her excellence or her relatives, violates her duty towards her husband, the King shall arrange to have her thrown before dogs at a public place.

27. “Pita rakhshati……….” – 9/3. Since women are not capable of living independently, she is to be kept under the custody of her father as child, under her husband as a woman and under her son as widow.

28. “Imam hi sarw………..” – 9/6. It is the duty of all husbands to exert total control over their wives. Even physically weak husbands must strive to control their wives.

29. “Pati bharyam ……….” – 9/8. The husband, after the conception of his wife, becomes the embryo and is born again of her. This explains why women are called Jaya.

30. “Panam durjan………” – 9/13. Consuming liquor, association with wicked persons, separation from her husband, rambling around, sleeping for unreasonable hours and dwelling -are six demerits of women.

31. “Naita rupam……………” – 9/14. Such women are not loyal and have extra marital relations with men without consideration for their age.

32. “Poonshchalya…………” – 9/15. Because of their passion for men, immutable temper and natural heartlessness, they are not loyal to their husbands.

33. “Na asti strinam………” – 9/18. While performing namkarm and jatkarm, Vedic mantras are not to be recited by women, because women are lacking in strength and knowledge of Vedic texts. Women are impure and represent falsehood.

34. “Devra…sapinda………” – 9/58. On failure to produce offspring with her husband, she may obtain offspring by cohabitation with her brother-in-law [devar] or with some other relative [sapinda] on her in-law’s side.

35. “Vidwayam…………….” – 9/60. He who is appointed to cohabit with a widow shall approach her at night, be anointed  with clarified butter and silently beget one son, but by no means a second one.

36. “Yatha vidy……………..” – 9/70. In accordance with established law, the sister-in-law [bhabhi] must be clad in white garments; with pure intent her brother-in-law [devar] will cohabitate with her until she conceives.

37. “Ati kramay……………” – 9/77. Any women who disobey orders of her lethargic, alcoholic and diseased husband shall be deserted for three months and be deprived of her ornaments.

38. “Vandyashtamay…….” – 9/80. A barren wife may be superseded in the 8thyear; she whose children die may be superseded in the 10th year and she who bears only daughters may be superseded in the 11th year;  but she who is quarrelsome may be superseded without delay.

39. “Trinsha……………….” – 9/93. In case of any problem in performing religious rites, males between the age of 24 and 30 should marry a female between the age of 8 and 12.

40. “Yambrahmansto…….” – 9/177. In case a Brahman man marries Shudra woman, their son will be called ‘Parshav’ or ‘Shudra’ because his social existence is like a dead body.

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" Having killed a cat, an ichneumon, a blue jay, a frog, a dog, an iguana, an owl, or a corw, he shall perform the penance for the murder of a Sudra."
-- [ Manu IX.132 ]

" 'You may breed cows and dogs in your house,' wrote Mr. M.C. Raja. 'You may drink the urine of cows and swallow cowdung to expiate your sins, but you shall not approach an Adi Dravida"
-- [ Inf ]

" The murder of a Sudra by a Brahman is equal only to killing a cat or a frog or a cow "
[ Stat ] [ Wilk.248 ].

Whereas Brahmans are classed with gods, Sudras are classed with animals:

" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"
-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]

" A Sudra has no right even to listen to the Veda. Recitation of or listening to this sacred book is exclusively a privilege of the Aryan Hindus. There is provision of severe punishment for a Sudra, in case he dares to enjoy this privilege. If he "overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten lac or tin was to be poured into his mouth; if he repeated recitation of the Vedas, his tongue should be cut; and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces."
-- [ Tirth ]; cited in [ Stat ]

" The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off ."
-- [ al-B.i.125 Ch.XII ]

 

·         " A once-born man (Sudra) who insults a twice-born man (Aryan) with gross invective, shall have his tongue cut out; for he is of low origin."
-- [ Manu VIII.270 ]

·         " If he mentions the names and castes (Jati) of the (twice-born) with contumely, an iron nail, 10 fingers long, shall be thrust red-hot into his mouth ."
-- [ Manu VIII.271 ]

·         " If he arrogantly teaches Brahmins their duty, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and into his ears . "
-- [ Manu VIII.272 ]

 

" The colour (Varna ) of the Brahmans was white, that of the Kshtriyas red, that of the Vaisyas yellow, and that of the Shudras black"
-- [ MBh.Santi.6930 ff ][ Muir.I.140 ]

" The Brahman is his mouth; he is the Kshattriya-armed, that great One, Vaisya-thighed, and has the black caste abiding in his feet." " Brahmananam kshattra-bhujo mahatma vid-urur anghrisrita-krishna-varnah"
-- [ Muir.I.156 ] [ Bhg.Pur.II.1.37 ]

"Others he [ Brahma ] created from his feet, whose chief characterisitic was drakness."
-- [ Muir 62 ] [ Vis.Pur. I.6.5 ]

" these 7 varshas have a system of four castes. The caste which dwell there are severally the Kapilas, Arunas, Pitas, and Krishnas (or, the Tawny, the Purple, the Yellow and the Black). These, the Brahmans, Kshattryias, the Vaisya an Sudras, worship woth excellent sacrifices Vishnu ... in the form of Vayu... "
-- [ Muir I.499 ] [ Vis.Pur.II.4.12 ]

"Probably no other class of persons in any society ever combined in themselves all these advantages so exclusively as the Brahmans. It is equally doubtful if any other aristocratic class has ever exercised their privileges to the detriment of the common people so unscrupulously and for so long a period as these Brahman priests." [ Tirth.113 ] He further observes, "No imperial power ever imposed on a weaker people a more ruthless and soul-destroying domination than the Brahmans did on the rest of their fellow citizens, and no race of superior men ever arrogated to themselves such haughty supremacy and false greatness as they have. " [ Tirth.163-4 ]
-- [ Brah_S ]

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

But at least Christians have changed, Muslims can learn from them ...  

Even Hindus have changed, not long ago they were burning widows and pouring boiling water/oil into the ears of shudras who accidentally heard the vedas. The way Hinduism was practiced especially by the brahmins was pure evil and not too long ago either 

Islam has been pushed onto a bigger stage on which its every word and move is analysed and dissected to death. The often referenced Christian reformation of the Enlightenment period may have been the moment when Christianity began to think twice about taking its Old Testament teachings literally, but Islam seemed to have gradually settled into a rhythm after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent rise of secular minded leaders who were beginning to introduce modern reforms to their lands. Was it a soft self-Reformation? Perhaps.   It's hard to believe, but what are now hotbeds of instability and fundamentalism in the Middle East, were almost verging on the secularism of the West as recently as the middle of the last century. Islam still played a huge part in the lives of their populations, but the incitement to fundamentalism was nowhere near as widespread as it's become in the past 30 or so years. Sure, there was always conflict between places like Iraq and Iran, but there's always been such niggles between neighbouring countries in that part of the world. Thank the United States and their meddling for sending that part of the world back 300 or 400 years. It's an absolute tragedy.

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19 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Islam has been pushed onto a bigger stage on which its every word and move is analysed and dissected to death. The often referenced Christian reformation of the Enlightenment period may have been the moment when Christianity began to think twice about taking its Old Testament teachings literally, but Islam seemed to have gradually settled into a rhythm after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent rise of secular minded leaders who were beginning to introduce modern reforms to their lands. Was it a soft self-Reformation? Perhaps.   It's hard to believe, but what are now hotbeds of instability and fundamentalism in the Middle East, were almost verging on the secularism of the West as recently as the middle of the last century. Islam still played a huge part in the lives of their populations, but the incitement to fundamentalism was nowhere near as widespread as it's become in the past 30 or so years. Sure, there was always conflict between places like Iraq and Iran, but there's always been such niggles between neighbouring countries in that part of the world. Thank the United States and their meddling for sending that part of the world back 300 or 400 years. It's an absolute tragedy.

Yeah a lot of Islamic countries were becoming secular but then i think saudia arabia started sending money to muslim countries. There are a few pics of Afghanistan and Iran etc from back in the 60s with women wearing skirts and talking to men. Even Pakistan after partition was no different to India Punjab! Its in the 70s that the mullahs started gaining power and thats when the country became radical. I think the Paki prime-minister was called zia?  he made the country very radical. Theres a good movie called "silent waters" showing how open Pakistan was before the 70s and then how the mullahs radicalized it. Iv seen interviews online of how before Pakistan became radicalized the mullahs used to be considered jokes! A lot of older generation Pakis especially the more liberal ones would tell you how the country has become unrecognizable. There are many videos of our elders online saying how Sikhs and Muslims used to live like brothers before the partition, eating from the same plate, visiting each others relatives, attending each others weddings.  I remember watching this elderly Sikh Bibis interview on the partition and she said that when she got married her Muslim neighbors from her birth village came to visit her in her new house to make sure she was happy. 

I remember watching the interview of an elderly Egyptian ex muslim and he said egypt today is unrecognizable. He said back in his days girls used to wear mini skirts and openly talk to boys etc all that was considered normal  

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