Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative/Spokesperson of our Sikh religion (also social religious issues)?

[MrDoaba 930]

There were non-Kesdharis/Amritdharis in 1984.

Sikh Youth UK have non-kesdharis in their org.

Jaggi.

The guy from Rajoana TV (although he seems to have gone off the radar)

Preet Kaur Gill MP.

Hell, people on these here forums.

 

Don't hear anyone complaining about the above, and these are just off the top of my head.

Non-Kesdhari/Amritdhari does not equal complete and utter agyaanta, adharmic, bemukh, or someone with no prem/sharda/bhaavna.

 

[Singh559 2,656]

17 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

I have heard in Katha that in many cases in order to be eligible for Amrit there was some rather stringent testing.

Fair enough.

You're not being realistic lol. Not every single Amritdhari has been through everything you've mentioned yet they are given full platform rights. Amritdharis are not tested in the way you're suggesting lol, or well at least not anymore.

The Nihang model is not applicable in the west as even they themselves (real Nihangs) will say one cannot technically be a Nihang in the west under currrent cirumstances. Being a Nihang is a full time commitment to a specific lifestyle.

Unfortunately many Kathavachiks may have missold some aspects of our history. Dhadi vaaran are usually more historically accurate because they require the dhadis to actually read some sort of history. Have heard some outlandish things in katha that are antithesis to many old Sikh Granths in terms of history, but many people still prescribe to such individual(s).

In a way, I guess, the most stringent of testing could be willingness to give up their life to Guru. Seems simple, but when you think about it, it definitely is very stringent. Of course there were some more non-politically correct means of vetting some converts as well, but that's a tangent. Same way a person could be Gyaani Dhiaani with a lot of knowledge, but might not be able to control their Mann/Mind and focus on Naam for their entire life whereas an uneducated mute may be blessed with Kirpa of Naam instantly. All is about kirpa, but commonality is bare minimum Rahit.

[Singh559 2,656]

9 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

There were non-Kesdharis/Amritdharis in 1984.

Sikh Youth UK have non-kesdharis in their org.

Jaggi.

The guy from Rajoana TV (although he seems to have gone off the radar)

Preet Kaur Gill MP.

Hell, people on these here forums.

 

Don't hear anyone complaining about the above, and these are just off the top of my head.

Non-Kesdhari/Amritdhari does not equal complete and utter agyaanta, adharmic, bemukh, or someone with no prem/sharda/bhaavna.

 

It's natural that we will have people who are not kesh-dhari, but if we look at the political climate of the 1980s - it was a religious movement and not a socio-political one which is why people started to give up drinking, returned to work and started to take Khande Di Pahul en-masse. Sant Ji knew the way to reverse the currents of time and effects of modernity, Guru Sahib's vision of a Khalsa society must be created. Every mona shaheed Singh all respected kesh and eventually would have kept it, as many Singhs did.

I definitely don't condone non-keshadhari hate, nor do I condone saying non-keshadharis are not Sikhs. My point, which I forgot to iterate is that I believe the normalization of non-keshdhari identity shouldn't be promoted. The promoting of non-keshdhari individuals in Sikh seats of power is a de-facto condonation of normalizing non-keshdhari identity which is antithesis to Guru Gobind Singh's hukam.

[Guest]

See when it comes to religion and spirituality , I wouldn't promote non-kesadhari dudes of our panth. 

Sure , if we were to fill in political positions of panth , they're more than welcome. INFACT , putting a haircut turbanless sikh dude into one important position within the international sikh community is a positive image for the panth as it shows we're not so orthodox either and are pretty diverse.

No one is saying turbaned , long bearded, 5K wearing ppl are sant. "Sant" as defined in gurbani are very very broad and deep terms and are one in a million . What most ppl don't realize is external amrit is beginning of a journey , not the destination. 

Its our fault we give undue reverence and thats were we get exploited. I remember growing up in the 90s with these so many sikhi related movies where the monah guy was almost portrayed as villainous and the guilt-trip .. oh ! today moneh are widely accepted. Honestly even the baabey no longer bat an eyelid as much on the sight of widespread moneh but its not something i would promote man for obvious reasons

[Guest]

8 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I personally hate those dimwits who mimic musley shaved/faded  hairstyles  it just blurs the lines for young impressionable sikh children .

as long as they're considered hotter than the turbans , ppl gonna mimic them and girls gonna drool over em

[mahandulai 42]

On 11/10/2018 at 9:57 AM, namespace said:

I do not believe so.  Maybe this person chooses to trim the beard or bodily hair?  Yes perhaps.  If they keep it short as most people around the world do then no!  Kesh is what our Guru told us to keep, plain and simple.  If you do not have 5 ks then you shouldn't represent the Guru.

...I also think that if you do not dress in all dark blue/yellow and do not carry a full length kirpan, and kara on both arms then you shouldn't be a spokesperson either.

this last part about in al blue is a joke, right?

[jkvlondon 6,098]

7 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

as long as they're considered hotter than the turbans , ppl gonna mimic them and girls gonna drool over em

how about keeping you personal proclivities out of this , I'm talking about lack of sikh knowledge in those individuals coupled with outer look means that paedo musley can pass themselves off easily as sikh which has created a dangerous situation where our girls are being picked off by nonsikh pretenders.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

how about keeping you personal proclivities out of this , I'm talking about lack of sikh knowledge in those individuals coupled with outer look means that paedo musley can pass themselves off easily as sikh which has created a dangerous situation where our girls are being picked off by nonsikh pretenders.

its not my personal proclivities dear. 

The turban didnt get promoted enough in the fashion industry and as a result , we see haircut = cool , turban = boring. 

Ofcourse I don't even have to mention abt how sikh females outside india dare say "no turban no beard" in matrimonial services run by GURDWARE !  

 

[Big_Tera 1,156]

On 11/10/2018 at 7:11 AM, ADMIN said:

Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative of our Sikh religion (including in our social religious issues)?

Well lets look at the state if things as it is. All the sikh institutions and organisations are run by pagh wale. 

Yet these guys with their paghs and dharis are not doing a good job. 

We really need to get over this concept that pagh and dhari equals a good person that is intellegent. 

Maybe let some intellegent moneh run some things. 

Pagh and dhari does not mean anything compared to what is inside. 

[Singh559 2,656]

25 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

Well lets look at the state if things as it is. All the sikh institutions and organisations are run by pagh wale. 

Yet these guys with their paghs and dharis are not doing a good job. 

We really need to get over this concept that pagh and dhari equals a good person that is intellegent. 

Maybe let some intellegent moneh run some things. 

Pagh and dhari does not mean anything compared to what is inside. 

So instead of getting competent people in Sikh Saroop, get people not in Sikh Saroop who don't follow the Hukam of Maharaj to run things? LOOL

What makes you think the corrupt pagh wale will allow moneh to do something if the corrupt pagh wale won't let the competent pagh wale do something?

 

[Akalifauj 900]

Buddha dal should have a non keshadhari Jathedar.  

Make another topic for this.  And have a area where a person can pick if they are Nihang or not and what their voted for.  I bet you the thought has already driven the online nihangs crazy because they like talking big but never back it up.

[Akalifauj 900]

There is a requirement for leading the Khalsa Panth and that includes having hair uncut.

[jkvlondon 6,098]

12 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

There is a requirement for leading the Khalsa Panth and that includes having hair uncut.

exactly the last time we had non keshadhari/sehajdhari (in true sense) in full charge of the khalsa fauj , the sikh kingdom fell . The Khalsa is akal purakh ki fauj and as such need to lead by following Guru ji's hukham and rehit, can't have just anybody in charge of them .

[S1ngh 2,101]

Very interesting to see the result.

I don't blame non-keshdhari folks but the leaders of our community for the devastating figures of population of monay folks in our community.

Not even one area anywhere in this world one did the preacher so good that folks in our kaum stood firm with their gurus hukam. 

Even British made one rule in Indian army that they will not hire any non-kheshadhari Sikhs. Their reasoning was that if one person is not loyal to their religion then how the hell they can be loyal to the crown.

[S1ngh 2,101]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:55 AM, Big_Tera said:

Well lets look at the state if things as it is. All the sikh institutions and organisations are run by pagh wale. 

Yet these guys with their paghs and dharis are not doing a good job. 

We really need to get over this concept that pagh and dhari equals a good person that is intellegent. 

Maybe let some intellegent moneh run some things. 

Pagh and dhari does not mean anything compared to what is inside. 

If monay run gurdwara or camps then wouldn’t it give the idea to the small numbers of Sikh who are in sikhi saroop to get the thinking, “hey, jora/turban is not important”. Yeh?