Would you be ok with your sister or daughter marrying a black or white Sikh?

[MisterrSingh]

10 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

maybe my appeal was just a waste of time.

these young folk aint bothered and really dont care anyway...if they wanna continue enjoying their western comforts cuz a few lifestyle choices and habits appear so 'hard', 'difficult' or 'weird' to change and adjust from the norm thats up to them...but once they start complaining of their regrets in not pursuing these priceless aspects as well as becoming inflicted with the countless commonly-known and widely-associated mental and physical health conditions that come with a western lifestyle, their ignorance, weakness and lack of obvious foresight deserves no sympathy.

someone's either got 'it' in em or they aint - this urge/desire to reconnect depends on personality along with a little exposure to positive influences and other stuff like personal feelings on identity, history etc.

it's gonna come from within, not by force....

If I may add, that genuine feeling that comes from "within" isn't rooted in a random quirk of fate just because some baba or giani manages to get his hooks into a gullible person (which usually doesn't last forever unless the brainwashing is done exceedingly thoroughly). That moment from within is usually necessitated by a personal moment of intense significance in that person's life. THAT'S when real faith, religion, belief, etc., enter the equation.

Everyone's a believer when life is mosying along during the good times. It's when life deals someone an indescribably harsh hand, and that person feels compelled to turn to something bigger than themselves, because he/she realises that fellow humans don't have the answers to their problems; that's when TRUE religion and faith emerge. Anything else prior to that moment is either blind and obstinate faith, or posturing and playing up to the image of what our families, friends, etc., expect us to do in those situations.

[dallysingh101]

50 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

If I may add, that genuine feeling that comes from "within" isn't rooted in a random quirk of fate just because some baba or giani manages to get his hooks into a gullible person (which usually doesn't last forever unless the brainwashing is done exceedingly thoroughly). That moment from within is usually necessitated by a personal moment of intense significance in that person's life. THAT'S when real faith, religion, belief, etc., enter the equation.

Everyone's a believer when life is mosying along during the good times. It's when life deals someone an indescribably harsh hand, and that person feels compelled to turn to something bigger than themselves, because he/she realises that fellow humans don't have the answers to their problems; that's when TRUE religion and faith emerge. Anything else prior to that moment is either blind and obstinate faith, or posturing and playing up to the image of what our families, friends, etc., expect us to do in those situations.

You hit that nail square on the head there. 

It's sad when we see posts from people who've obviously come from 'religious' familial backgrounds who've 'lost their faith' because they never got the job/wife/degree that they wanted and thought their rigid religious observance would help them obtain. 

[Guest GuestSingh]

4 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

If I may add, that genuine feeling that comes from "within" isn't rooted in a random quirk of fate just because some baba or giani manages to get his hooks into a gullible person (which usually doesn't last forever unless the brainwashing is done exceedingly thoroughly). That moment from within is usually necessitated by a personal moment of intense significance in that person's life. THAT'S when real faith, religion, belief, etc., enter the equation.

Everyone's a believer when life is mosying along during the good times. It's when life deals someone an indescribably harsh hand, and that person feels compelled to turn to something bigger than themselves, because he/she realises that fellow humans don't have the answers to their problems; that's when TRUE religion and faith emerge. Anything else prior to that moment is either blind and obstinate faith, or posturing and playing up to the image of what our families, friends, etc., expect us to do in those situations.

agreed brother.

from my experience, it seems like a build-up of feeling purposely 'alienated'/'isolated' from my identity since childhood...there were no apne around growing up, not even on a non-segregated, mixed-race neighbourhood - there were a couple of em in primary and secondary school but home was always far away as were gurdware so interaction outside with em was almost non-existent..there were factors like a large family living abroad, parent/s not bothering to teach panjabi despite constant requests, not really being taught anything about panjabi culture and faith...so the personality/interest was there from a young age....

but the real turning point came a few years ago when in a really dark place...after constant arguments/fighting at home, unemployment for a really long time with little money to my name, no partner or house etc. an acquaintance (dont do friends) who was christian accepted a request to stay over...soon my mind began to take an interest in 'god'...and that's when the questions came...'whats this sensation of always feeling something 'missing' in my life when everything (material) is here?', 'whats this inner-voice thats stopped myself from doing bad things and having potential regrets?' 'why have/are my lifestyle choices been so different from everyone else associated in my life?...this 'cocktail' of feeling lost, confused and fed-up is what really 'exploded' and 'ignited' my interest and research in sikhi and also panjabi culture...

this very 'desire/urge' to reconnect, well just explore and discover became an obsession...after reading so much of the suffering, sacrifice and injustice of our people and panjab, something just 'clicked'/'changed'...this was gonna be my life, my identity, my culture, what people knew....

the 'positive influence' mentioned earlier came in the form of a gursikh who came to decorate the house before my sister's wedding - his polite and kind nature left a really positive impression (think that's the first time of ever meeting one in my life)...

and what u say about the moment of really believing is so true - when without work, my mind would constantly plead with akaal purakh for an offer after so much rejection, eventually it came as did another a bit later which turned out to be the best one outta all of em...the first thing done after getting the first phone call was folding my hands and just giving thanks...was this already planned as a test of my sincerity and belief? was something greater already planned or was it going to happen anyway? will never know the answer to that...but it solidified my belief and now it's just a case of keeping faith with what life puts our way and staying on this path...

on hearing about my choice to practice sikhi, my nani said 'waheguru came calling and the call was answered'...

sorry if any of this bored anyone...been doing this too much recently which is really unlike my character (usually a quiet and reserved person who speaks little)...

anyway, that's my story...hope it didn't bore too much.

[dallysingh101]

45 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

agreed brother.

from my experience, it seems like a build-up of feeling purposely 'alienated'/'isolated' from my identity since childhood...there were no apne around growing up, not even on a non-segregated, mixed-race neighbourhood - there were a couple of em in primary and secondary school but home was always far away as were gurdware so interaction outside with em was almost non-existent..there were factors like a large family living abroad, parent/s not bothering to teach panjabi despite constant requests, not really being taught anything about panjabi culture and faith...so the personality/interest was there from a young age....

but the real turning point came a few years ago when in a really dark place...after constant arguments/fighting at home, unemployment for a really long time with little money to my name, no partner or house etc. an acquaintance (dont do friends) who was christian accepted a request to stay over...soon my mind began to take an interest in 'god'...and that's when the questions came...'whats this sensation of always feeling something 'missing' in my life when everything (material) is here?', 'whats this inner-voice thats stopped myself from doing bad things and having potential regrets?' 'why have/are my lifestyle choices been so different from everyone else associated in my life?...this 'cocktail' of feeling lost, confused and fed-up is what really 'exploded' and 'ignited' my interest and research in sikhi and also panjabi culture...

this very 'desire/urge' to reconnect, well just explore and discover became an obsession...after reading so much of the suffering, sacrifice and injustice of our people and panjab, something just 'clicked'/'changed'...this was gonna be my life, my identity, my culture, what people knew....

the 'positive influence' mentioned earlier came in the form of a gursikh who came to decorate the house before my sister's wedding - his polite and kind nature left a really positive impression (think that's the first time of ever meeting one in my life)...

and what u say about the moment of really believing is so true - when without work, my mind would constantly plead with akaal purakh for an offer after so much rejection, eventually it came as did another a bit later which turned out to be the best one outta all of em...the first thing done after getting the first phone call was folding my hands and just giving thanks...was this already planned as a test of my sincerity and belief? was something greater already planned or was it going to happen anyway? will never know the answer to that...but it solidified my belief and now it's just a case of keeping faith with what life puts our way and staying on this path...

on hearing about my choice to practice sikhi, my nani said 'waheguru came calling and the call was answered'...

sorry if any of this bored anyone...been doing this too much recently which is really unlike my character (usually a quiet and reserved person who speaks little)...

anyway, that's my story...hope it didn't bore too much.

Where did you grow up? London?

[Guest GuestSingh]

14 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Where did you grow up? London?

w.midlands - dont wanna be too specific in case someone's reading this...

but it was in a poor area within a block of flats - u could say it sounds a bit like east/south london? but it was nowhere near as rough - there were a few burglaries next door and u could hear domestic violence through the walls..one or two stabbings too if my memory is correct...but u get that anywhere now...

seriously brother my old place sounds like a retreat compared to the places in which u must have lived - can't imagine how harsh these environments are for young children and single parents/families either...

[MisterrSingh]

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

You hit that nail square on the head there. 

It's sad when we see posts from people who've obviously come from 'religious' familial backgrounds who've 'lost their faith' because they never got the job/wife/degree that they wanted and thought their rigid religious observance would help them obtain. 

It smacks of "First World Problems" doesn't it, but wrapped up in the strangely entitled mentality of the apparently religious and spiritual who seem to think they have a hotline to God whenever they think they deserve a better job, a promotion, a pale-skinned wife, or a larger house. Call me cynical, but it's those kind of people who end up falling for the dodgy holy men and their schtick, and before they know it they've spent their entire lives in the service of a charlatan. That's another janam wasted.

Yet, if they'd paid attention to the Gurbani they apparently perform each day, it says in Japji Sahib that no other individual can put a good word in for us when the time arrives for us to cross the ocean of the afterlife; the only things we take are the fruits of the Naam we've earned whilst alive. You certainly aren't granted those blessings through mouth-to-mouth Simran, or ferrying around a fat baba to the homes of the similarly deluded in a luxury car for 30 years, or other similar transferable techniques. So, where's the confusion?

 

1 hour ago, GuestSingh said:

agreed brother.

from my experience, it seems like a build-up of feeling purposely 'alienated'/'isolated' from my identity since childhood...there were no apne around growing up, not even on a non-segregated, mixed-race neighbourhood - there were a couple of em in primary and secondary school but home was always far away as were gurdware so interaction outside with em was almost non-existent..there were factors like a large family living abroad, parent/s not bothering to teach panjabi despite constant requests, not really being taught anything about panjabi culture and faith...so the personality/interest was there from a young age....

but the real turning point came a few years ago when in a really dark place...after constant arguments/fighting at home, unemployment for a really long time with little money to my name, no partner or house etc. an acquaintance (dont do friends) who was christian accepted a request to stay over...soon my mind began to take an interest in 'god'...and that's when the questions came...'whats this sensation of always feeling something 'missing' in my life when everything (material) is here?', 'whats this inner-voice thats stopped myself from doing bad things and having potential regrets?' 'why have/are my lifestyle choices been so different from everyone else associated in my life?...this 'cocktail' of feeling lost, confused and fed-up is what really 'exploded' and 'ignited' my interest and research in sikhi and also panjabi culture...

this very 'desire/urge' to reconnect, well just explore and discover became an obsession...after reading so much of the suffering, sacrifice and injustice of our people and panjab, something just 'clicked'/'changed'...this was gonna be my life, my identity, my culture, what people knew....

the 'positive influence' mentioned earlier came in the form of a gursikh who came to decorate the house before my sister's wedding - his polite and kind nature left a really positive impression (think that's the first time of ever meeting one in my life)...

and what u say about the moment of really believing is so true - when without work, my mind would constantly plead with akaal purakh for an offer after so much rejection, eventually it came as did another a bit later which turned out to be the best one outta all of em...the first thing done after getting the first phone call was folding my hands and just giving thanks...was this already planned as a test of my sincerity and belief? was something greater already planned or was it going to happen anyway? will never know the answer to that...but it solidified my belief and now it's just a case of keeping faith with what life puts our way and staying on this path...

on hearing about my choice to practice sikhi, my nani said 'waheguru came calling and the call was answered'...

sorry if any of this bored anyone...been doing this too much recently which is really unlike my character (usually a quiet and reserved person who speaks little)...

anyway, that's my story...hope it didn't bore too much.

It's ironic that in my case the darkness I've been exposed to has originated solely from those in the garb of the holy and the spiritual. No, I wasn't abused in any way, thankfully. Yet, if I was one of those westernised pappus looking for an excuse to get-up to allsorts -- or even non-believing Punjabis -- I'd be trashing my religion and my people at every opportunity. It would've made bearing the pain a lot more tolerable, but ultimately it's like a child lashing out at something he can't confront and deal with effectively. I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. But even in my darkest moments, at a young age, I realised the path of Sikhi is distinct to the people who profess to follow it. Nobody could've stopped me -- and they still can't -- if I'd converted to another religion or forgone religion altogether. But there's something inside me that feels an affinity for Sikhi. It was never drilled into me as a child, or subjected to subtle forms of indoctrination. It's always been there for as long as I can recall. I stick with it because it's good and pure, and because I'm not ungrateful. I'm not going to turn my back on something that was there for me when I had nobody.

There's a pre-moment and a post-moment in some people's lives. That moment when everything changes, and things are never the same again. Dealing with life after the post-moment is the true battle. When that veil is removed from our eyes (either forcibly or willingly) we see reality for what is truly is, and it's unbearable. Sometimes you'd prefer it if the veil had remained even though the life you were living was a lie. But eventually you realise it's best to live the painful truth than exist in a comfortable and peaceful lie. Living in ignorance is no way to exist. You will end up feeling utterly alone for the rest of your days, but, hey, if that's the price of being awake, then so be it.

[Guest GuestSingh]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

It's ironic that in my case the darkness I've been exposed to has originated solely from those in the garb of the holy and the spiritual. No, I wasn't abused in any way, thankfully. Yet, if I was one of those westernised pappus looking for an excuse to get-up to allsorts -- or even non-believing Punjabis -- I'd be trashing my religion and my people at every opportunity. It would've made bearing the pain a lot more tolerable, but ultimately it's like a child lashing out at something he can't confront and deal with effectively. I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. But even in my darkness moments, at a young age, I realised the path of Sikhi is distinct to the people who profess to follow it. Nobody could've stopped me -- and they still can't -- if I'd converted to another religion or forgone religion altogether. But there's something inside me that feels an affinity for Sikhi. It was never drilled into me as a child, or subjected to subtle forms of indoctrination. It's always been there for as long as I can recall. I stick with it because it's good and pure, and because I'm not ungrateful. I'm not going to turn my back on something that was there for me when I had nobody.

There's a pre-moment and a post-moment in some people's lives. That moment when everything changes, and things are never the same again. Dealing with life after the post-moment is the true battle. When that veil is removed from our eyes (either forcibly or willingly) we see reality for what is truly is, and it's unbearable. Sometimes you'd prefer it if the veil had remained even though the life you were living was a lie. But eventually you realise it's best to live the painful truth than exist in a comfortable and peaceful lie. Living in ignorance is no way to exist. You will end up feeling utterly alone for the rest of your days, but, hey, if that's the price of being awake, then so be it.

you do end up feeling alone most days - prefer that myself anyway but now and again it does help to use this place to 'escape' and share discussion on similar thoughts with 'like-minded-folk -  would never open up to anyone in person so keeping some form of 'anonymity' on here is good...

completely agree that we can't 'bury our heads in the sands' when dark times come around just to suit us - we never saw that way of thinking or decision-making by those who made our history so special so we'd be doing it and them an immeasurable disservice by doing the opposite cuz we can't 'handle the truth' or it just disrupts our conscious mind that helps us to enjoy a nice life.

don't know how it happened or why but my decision made some years ago before taking an interest in sikhi was just to see the world for what it is and not hide away from any of it - one of the reasons was guilt for just living a western lifestyle (have always felt guilt from young) but for more distasteful or just irritating antics, other reasons were that they only help toughen and wisen us up - this does help with making certain life decisions or doing what's really best for myself, family/loved ones (only a few not all) or others who are 'good'...there was actually once a long phase in my life of watching the news more than once every day - not healthy and a lot of folk wouldn't be able to do it...but there's always been a curiosity of 'why?' and it definitely helped to 'ground' and 'strengthen' my own thinking and judgement...

are we actually fighting a battle or a war? it does feel like a never-ending war in this game of kaljug - once we feel we've beaten or overcome a difficult battle, something else - worse or not - tends to come along to beat or drag us down again...it might be a single battle sometimes but then there may be more than one concurrent battle and it can last for as long as it likes...is it war?

[dallysingh101]

I think one of the main things is not utterly feeling alone when it comes to your Sikhi. That is something there for you, regardless of what anyone else does. Call it naam energy or whatever. 

And is it a war. I'd say fighting yourself constantly can make you feel like this. Sure there are challenges and obstacles, but when aren't there whenever you are trying to achieve anything? Well anything really worth having. 

[Ranjeet01]

6 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

maybe my appeal was just a waste of time.

these young folk aint bothered and really dont care anyway...if they wanna continue enjoying their western comforts cuz a few lifestyle choices and habits appear so 'hard', 'difficult' or 'weird' to change and adjust from the norm thats up to them...but once they start complaining of their regrets in not pursuing these priceless aspects as well as becoming inflicted with the countless commonly-known and widely-associated mental and physical health conditions that come with a western lifestyle, their ignorance, weakness and lack of obvious foresight deserves no sympathy.

someone's either got 'it' in em or they aint - this urge/desire to reconnect depends on personality along with a little exposure to positive influences and other stuff like personal feelings on identity, history etc.

it's gonna come from within, not by force....

Some things with western lifestyle are toxic and other aspects are positive.

Some things in traditional Punjabi culture are positive and other aspects of it are toxic.

There are other toxic elements that have nothing to do with being westernised or the Punjabi cultural background.

Some people are just s*****, lazy regardless.

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Some things with western lifestyle are toxic and other aspects are positive.

Some things in traditional Punjabi culture are positive and other aspects of it are toxic.

There are other toxic elements that have nothing to do with being westernised or the Punjabi cultural background.

Some people are just s*****, lazy regardless.

These sh**s in every group, community, faith, and there's scum in our community as well as our host community. Just got to keep perspective and not write off everyone as a lost cause even if it may seem that way.