Real talk. Long post

[Akalifauj]

3 hours ago, Amit12 said:

Please come to Punjab and see most sikhs are hardly making both ends meet..... Do you think they'll support an all new country? New generation Sikhs in Punjab wants to be SECULAR, like any other educated young generation.

If someone wants to work towards a better PUNJAB then they are welcome to come in Punjab and join politics and do something like KEJRIWAL is doing, for a better future, if you don't even want to come then PLEASE BUTT OFF, LET US LIVE, WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER CARNAGE ON OUR HOMELAND....   PLEASE....

They are not secular.  They are on drugs and worshipping tantric and mantra sadhs.  Each finger has a different colored ring to protect them from some sort of evil and bring them wealth.  The youth boys and girls are on alcohol.  They are on drugs.  They have rave parties where girls are sexual abused.  This is not secular.  Also there is no such thing as secular Sikh.  I knew from the beginning you didn't practice Sikhi and are here to twist Sikh practices.

Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa was going through villages and found similar issues.  He through the teaching of Gurbani woke up many villagers and this was done through education.   Sikhs who are still oppressed will support a new country that will give them the freedom to earn for their family and have a normal life.  Not a life of being oppressed and the threat of life being taken away or your land or business being taken away by force.  

[proactive]

3 hours ago, Amit12 said:

Please come to Punjab and see most sikhs are hardly making both ends meet..... Do you think they'll support an all new country? New generation Sikhs in Punjab wants to be SECULAR, like any other educated young generation.

If someone wants to work towards a better PUNJAB then they are welcome to come in Punjab and join politics and do something like KEJRIWAL is doing, for a better future, if you don't even want to come then PLEASE BUTT OFF, LET US LIVE, WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER CARNAGE ON OUR HOMELAND....   PLEASE....

It's interesting how the days when the Kharkoo movement was at it's height are now commonly being presented as being the 'dark days' as if the present is some kind of utopia whereas those days were from the dark ages.

Before the movement was infiltrated by police black cats and before the security agencies of the brutal Indian state were able to undertake false flag attacks to turn the Sikh population against the kharkoo movement.

In 1989-90 there were very few dowry deaths in Punjab. A bride's in law were not able to blackmail her family for dowry because if they did then because the Kharkoos had their supporters everywhere then they would become aware of the dowry demand and the family would face action. Prior to a marriage taking place an announcement would be made from the Gurdwara that the boy's family did not take any dowry. Now that the Indian colonial state has reasserted it's control on Punjab you only need to look at how dowry deaths are common. The Kharkoos also ordered that only 11 persons could go from the boys side to the girl's village for the wedding. Now that those 'dark days' are over you have marriage palaces all over the place and people being fleeced by these place and where a wedding will now put a family in debt for many years. Now a wedding in Punjab is likely to attract more sharabis than family and friends coming to wish the new couple their blessings. At that time the Kharkoos also ordered that any woman who had been 'chhaddi hoi' or been informally divorced through no fault of her own should be taken back by her husband and many were taken back. 

Look at the drugs problem in Punjab. The only drugs around in Punjab during the 'dark days' were doday and drug addicts were so small in number that they would be known by the suffix 'amli' after their names. 

Look at the gandh that Punjabi singers are releasing now compared to what was around during the 'dark days'.

What the brutal Indian state was able to do was to defeat the Kharkoo movement by infiltrating them with their own men and these men along with the Indian agencies would commit mass killings and then defame the Kharkoo movement. Hence those days can now be claimed to have been 'dark days'. 

 

[Guest WWW.SHDF.ORG]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:47 PM, Guest Manbir Singh said:

I want to hear from Sikhs what they think about a few things, I get blocked/deleted whenever I post similar topics on sikhyouth uk, Sikhs for justice etc.

Its been approx 25 years since the end of the Khalistan armed movement, pretty much. Since then there have been numerous rallies/speeches/ events , huge amount of funds have been collected during this.

Now why is it not even one person has the guts to actually go to Punjab and start a ground level campaign? 

Honestly no western country gives a damn about our problems so why look towards them? 

Where has all the money even gone? I can tell you from personal experience that remaining families of even well known shaheed are living in poverty, forget about the thousands of others who are not so well known.

In the mean time while western Sikhs are time wasting, Punjabi’s are leaving Punjab in their thousands and their land/property are being bought up by Bihari/UP people. Go to Punjab seeing Sardars is a rarity, even young kids no longer have kes.

Pretty much every Sikh organization these days is just focused on making money and the like, I could go into how they have all been corrupted by RSS but many would not agree. For example Dhumma the so called head of Damdami Taksal, he was brought over from Fresno, by KPS Gill no less. He gave him siropa in 91/92 then when questioned claimed he didn’t know he was. 

I could go into much more detail about everything but it seems it is a total waste, it is easy to make drama sitting in a different country safe and sound. 

That is ultimately why sikhi is on a decline, no one can back up what they talk, too busy having inter jatha warfare and worrying about nonsense issues.

Anyway I guess me like many others just should give up as nothing is gonna happen, the killers, the black cats are known by all, but no one can be bothered. 

 

Instead of advocating that young Sikhs catch flights to Delhi to begin armed struggle we need to be sensible.

We need to form jatha's at pind level that drugs are not openly sold and consumed and keep a lid on alcohol sales and consumption.

Instead of giving money to dubious organisations advocating armed struggle verbally (but secretly unwilling to leave their luxurious lives in the West) we need to prioritize young Sikh children in Punjab actually getting a good education and becoming literate as only with educated youth will the Panth's future have the knowledge to avoid being treated unfairly. As illiterates will always be at a disadvantage to GOI bureaucrats.

So long as caste divisions in Gurughars exist and people continue to support or tolerate matrimonial apartheid then there is no realistic prospect of overturning GOI discrimination as divide+rule tactics can easily be employed on weak caste-minded people.

Money needs to be invested in Punjab by overseas Sikhs in order to generate employment for the youth as each job can uplift a family out of poverty. As so long as Sikh families struggle with daily survival it will be too hard for them to think of anything else. Overall India's economy is now growing at a faster rate than China's whilst Punjab continues to be a laggard economically. The weaker Punjab is economically compared to those that discriminate against Sikhs the weaker our ability to combat their anti-Sikh discrimination.

The Sikh fertility rate is below replacement level and female infanticide is at disgraceful levels in Punjab. On top of that Sikhs have internalised Hindutva propaganda that only Amritdhari Gursikhs (around 3% of the Punjab population) are Sikhs so that anti-Sikh forces can define Sikhs as a permanent democratic minority. Only by including all Gurdwara Sangat and all sehajdhari Sikhs within the Panth will the Sikh Panth ever have a democratic voice. 

Before too many start fantasizing about taking one way tickets to Punjab to launch armed struggle against a terrorist state with 1000 times greater resources and ammunition which is backed and supported by the USA, Russia, UK, Canada, China, France, Australia for trade and business reasons, we need to not take our eyes off the fact that Sikhs are projected to be a minority in Punjab by the time of 2021 census due to the Balmiki and Dera Ballan apartheid mandir franchises aiming to convert 5 million Sikhs into tomorrow's Hindutva votebank (as Doaba is already an area of Punjab where Sikhs are now a minority).

We need to get up off the floor and walk before we can run the marathon.

[Guest GuestSingh]

2 hours ago, proactive said:

It's interesting how the days when the Kharkoo movement was at it's height are now commonly being presented as being the 'dark days' as if the present is some kind of utopia whereas those days were from the dark ages.

Before the movement was infiltrated by police black cats and before the security agencies of the brutal Indian state were able to undertake false flag attacks to turn the Sikh population against the kharkoo movement.

In 1989-90 there were very few dowry deaths in Punjab. A bride's in law were not able to blackmail her family for dowry because if they did then because the Kharkoos had their supporters everywhere then they would become aware of the dowry demand and the family would face action. Prior to a marriage taking place an announcement would be made from the Gurdwara that the boy's family did not take any dowry. Now that the Indian colonial state has reasserted it's control on Punjab you only need to look at how dowry deaths are common. The Kharkoos also ordered that only 11 persons could go from the boys side to the girl's village for the wedding. Now that those 'dark days' are over you have marriage palaces all over the place and people being fleeced by these place and where a wedding will now put a family in debt for many years. Now a wedding in Punjab is likely to attract more sharabis than family and friends coming to wish the new couple their blessings. At that time the Kharkoos also ordered that any woman who had been 'chhaddi hoi' or been informally divorced through no fault of her own should be taken back by her husband and many were taken back. 

Look at the drugs problem in Punjab. The only drugs around in Punjab during the 'dark days' were doday and drug addicts were so small in number that they would be known by the suffix 'amli' after their names. 

Look at the gandh that Punjabi singers are releasing now compared to what was around during the 'dark days'.

What the brutal Indian state was able to do was to defeat the Kharkoo movement by infiltrating them with their own men and these men along with the Indian agencies would commit mass killings and then defame the Kharkoo movement. Hence those days can now be claimed to have been 'dark days'. 

 

think u well no tht 'dark days' was in ref: to the 'carnage' i.e. systematic mass torture and genocide of old and young sikh men, systematic mass torture, rape and murder of old and young sikh women, mass beadbi of sri guru granth sahib ji, attacks on sri harmandir sahib and gurdware throughout 'india', looting and destruction of sikh libraries, treachery among factions, some breaking off to form new ones etc...and wat uve mentioned above is also true but it still wudve been present albeit on a smaller scale during certain periods e.g. chamkilas music....

maybe 'dark days' wasnt the ryt choice of words so wat wud uve called it fella?

and why have u quoted someone elses post and failed to address a single point made but switch focus to a few words of mine and repeat em throughout just to make a point?

[mahandulai]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 1:47 PM, Guest Manbir Singh said:

I want to hear from Sikhs what they think about a few things, I get blocked/deleted whenever I post similar topics on sikhyouth uk, Sikhs for justice etc.

Its been approx 25 years since the end of the Khalistan armed movement, pretty much. Since then there have been numerous rallies/speeches/ events , huge amount of funds have been collected during this.

Now why is it not even one person has the guts to actually go to Punjab and start a ground level campaign? 

Honestly no western country gives a damn about our problems so why look towards them? 

Where has all the money even gone? I can tell you from personal experience that remaining families of even well known shaheed are living in poverty, forget about the thousands of others who are not so well known.

In the mean time while western Sikhs are time wasting, Punjabi’s are leaving Punjab in their thousands and their land/property are being bought up by Bihari/UP people. Go to Punjab seeing Sardars is a rarity, even young kids no longer have kes.

Pretty much every Sikh organization these days is just focused on making money and the like, I could go into how they have all been corrupted by RSS but many would not agree. For example Dhumma the so called head of Damdami Taksal, he was brought over from Fresno, by KPS Gill no less. He gave him siropa in 91/92 then when questioned claimed he didn’t know he was. 

I could go into much more detail about everything but it seems it is a total waste, it is easy to make drama sitting in a different country safe and sound. 

That is ultimately why sikhi is on a decline, no one can back up what they talk, too busy having inter jatha warfare and worrying about nonsense issues.

Anyway I guess me like many others just should give up as nothing is gonna happen, the killers, the black cats are known by all, but no one can be bothered. 

 

people only do things, that that feel compelled to do,

don't go flogging dead horses to governments

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

Quote

In 1989-90 there were very few dowry deaths in Punjab. A bride's in law were not able to blackmail her family for dowry because if they did then because the Kharkoos had their supporters everywhere then they would become aware of the dowry demand and the family would face action. Prior to a marriage taking place an announcement would be made from the Gurdwara that the boy's family did not take any dowry. Now that the Indian colonial state has reasserted it's control on Punjab you only need to look at how dowry deaths are common.

Dealing with the dowry 'problem' was actually quite easy for the kharkoos because it always was and still is  mainly a problem among the urban city classes. It was relatively easy to eradicate it's small presence in rural areas because it was never a massive part of rural culture anyway.

Quote

Now that those 'dark days' are over you have marriage palaces all over the place and people being fleeced by these place and where a wedding will now put a family in debt for many years.

It's very easy to blame others but the important thing is to look at ourselves and examine the part we have played in Punjab's downfall. The marriage palace prices are dirt cheap by any international standards so you can't blame them for anything. We need to look at ourselves and how we have set the wrong example - How we have planted ideas into the mind of the common man in Punjab that the only way to have a wedding is to have a big wedding, regardless of the debt that comes with it.

Quote

Look at the gandh that Punjabi singers are releasing now compared to what was around during the 'dark days'

It's human nature to always imagine that things were better and more moral yesteryear but the truth is that today's Punjabi music is almost church-like gospel choir stuff compared to the filth and smut that used to be sung in those days.

Quote

Now why is it not even one person has the guts to actually go to Punjab and start a ground level campaign?

Many have. They've all been killed or rot in jail. Indian is not a democracy as we know it. It's not like the UK or Canada where you are allowed to openly express a desire for an independent Scotland or Quebec. Indian law polices thoughts. You're not allowed to think it and if you express your thoughts that is the crime of sedition which carries the life sentence at maximum. Why don't YOU go and give it a try instead of instigated other vulnerable minds to do so ?

Quote

Pretty much every Sikh organization these days is just focused on making money

Yes. Agree.  And people like the NKJ are getting away with accumulating vast riches right under our noses by evoking the prosperity gospel. Question is then.....why are you getting so worked up about what's happening in India when things just as immoral are happening right under your nose in your home town ? 

Quote

In the mean time while western Sikhs are time wasting, Punjabi’s are leaving Punjab in their thousands and their land/property are being bought up by Bihari/UP people. Go to Punjab seeing Sardars is a rarity, even young kids no longer have kes.

I've changed the words slightly in the following but it's something I read on a North American facist website. It's written by an American  or Canadian white supremicist whose family possibly emigrated from England a few generations ago:

"Have you been to London lately ? Seeing a white person in his own city is a rarity. All the white people are leaving the UK and the business and houses are being bought up by Indians and Pakistanis. Even young white kids in London no longer speak English properly"

Recognise yourself at all ?

Quote

That is ultimately why sikhi is on a decline

No it's not. When I was a little kid the only young or youngish keshdari  Sikhs you saw were the ones that came from Kenya. Now it's so normal you don't even give it a second thought and the young ones wearing a dastar and full beard has rocketed up by around 1000%. This is the golden period - but to see it you need to take of those glass half empty negative spectacles that stop you seeing straight.

[MisterrSingh]

They have huge chips on their shoulders regarding "foreign" advice / intervention even from the likes of us. They cannot discern between conciliatory, friendly advice from a humdari and well-wisher, and the other type of person whose words are ego-laden and condescending. They simply lack the emotional intelligence to differentiate between the two. The funny thing is they would become the very person they resent in a heartbeat, so that goes some way to explain how utterly befuddled they are as a people. Can't be bothered with their bakwaas anymore. Leave them to their KAANGRESS and their BEEJAYPEE nonsense that'll never end, lol. Clowns.

[Amit12]

4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

They have huge chips on their shoulders regarding "foreign" advice / intervention even from the likes of us. They cannot discern between conciliatory, friendly advice from a humdari and well-wisher, and the other type of person whose words are ego-laden and condescending. They simply lack the emotional intelligence to differentiate between the two. The funny thing is they would become the very person they resent in a heartbeat, so that goes some way to explain how utterly befuddled they are as a people. Can't be bothered with their bakwaas anymore. Leave them to their KAANGRESS and their BEEJAYPEE nonsense that'll never end, lol. Clowns.

 

9 hours ago, proactive said:

It's interesting how the days when the Kharkoo movement was at it's height are now commonly being presented as being the 'dark days' as if the present is some kind of utopia whereas those days were from the dark ages.

Before the movement was infiltrated by police black cats and before the security agencies of the brutal Indian state were able to undertake false flag attacks to turn the Sikh population against the kharkoo movement.

In 1989-90 there were very few dowry deaths in Punjab. A bride's in law were not able to blackmail her family for dowry because if they did then because the Kharkoos had their supporters everywhere then they would become aware of the dowry demand and the family would face action. Prior to a marriage taking place an announcement would be made from the Gurdwara that the boy's family did not take any dowry. Now that the Indian colonial state has reasserted it's control on Punjab you only need to look at how dowry deaths are common. The Kharkoos also ordered that only 11 persons could go from the boys side to the girl's village for the wedding. Now that those 'dark days' are over you have marriage palaces all over the place and people being fleeced by these place and where a wedding will now put a family in debt for many years. Now a wedding in Punjab is likely to attract more sharabis than family and friends coming to wish the new couple their blessings. At that time the Kharkoos also ordered that any woman who had been 'chhaddi hoi' or been informally divorced through no fault of her own should be taken back by her husband and many were taken back. 

Look at the drugs problem in Punjab. The only drugs around in Punjab during the 'dark days' were doday and drug addicts were so small in number that they would be known by the suffix 'amli' after their names. 

Look at the gandh that Punjabi singers are releasing now compared to what was around during the 'dark days'.

What the brutal Indian state was able to do was to defeat the Kharkoo movement by infiltrating them with their own men and these men along with the Indian agencies would commit mass killings and then defame the Kharkoo movement. Hence those days can now be claimed to have been 'dark days'. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

They are not secular.  They are on drugs and worshipping tantric and mantra sadhs.  Each finger has a different colored ring to protect them from some sort of evil and bring them wealth.  The youth boys and girls are on alcohol.  They are on drugs.  They have rave parties where girls are sexual abused.  This is not secular.  Also there is no such thing as secular Sikh.  I knew from the beginning you didn't practice Sikhi and are here to twist Sikh practices.

Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa was going through villages and found similar issues.  He through the teaching of Gurbani woke up many villagers and this was done through education.   Sikhs who are still oppressed will support a new country that will give them the freedom to earn for their family and have a normal life.  Not a life of being oppressed and the threat of life being taken away or your land or business being taken away by force.  

 

11 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

brother my post wasnt a request for another war, 'hell on earth' in panjab again, no way should those dark days ever return...and neither was it to propose the idea of khalistan even tho it has my full support...but no-one should have to live their existence as a slave for the sake of evil..no-one..and too much blood has been spilt for the movement to just die in vain..imo the struggle for freedom and independence atm is dormant - neither alive nor dead..so the dream will always remain for so many - they can kill our ppl but they cant kill the idea...

and aint being 'secular' part of the problem today? how can panjab ever be so wen hindu fascists are 'running riot' enforcing and influencing hindutva raj? then there's the christian missionaries...and the 'new generations' are more hypnotised by the false delights in the west..educating panjab is something we can both agree on...

WELL IF YOU THINK PUNJAB HAS GOT A PROBLEM THEN THE ONLY SOLUTION IS ALSO PUNJAB. So if you think we're so sandwiched in KAANGRESS AND BEEJAYPEE, Then please come Join Politics and Lead the Punjabis to a Better Future, But if you guys are there only for giving ADVICE OF SEPARATE NATION, THEN WE DONT NEED IT. 

THANKYOU. 

regards, 

Youth of Punjab..... 

 

[Guest Unity.]

Valid points. I hate seeing the thousands being wasted on speeches, rallies etc. All these Khalistani organizations need to either decide A/B.

A-  Walk the walk, don't just shout Khalistan from western country and then use excuse such as we will become another Jaggi Johal. Singh's in the 80's went from Western countries and were not scared of death. Yet modern day "Kharkus" scared they may be put in jail.

B- Focus on issues in home country, the youth are being lost in the drug/dance scene. Stop the thousands of singers that keep popping up everyday. Provide jobs, gyms, groups for people to talk/ unite

Nothing has been achieved in last 30 years, things are on a decline.

There is so much corruption within Sikhi, that unless there is a total change the future is bleak. And youth of Punjab want to be rid of these Badal/ Amrinder types, and the only way for that is your own region, no politician gives a damn about normal folk.

But more then that the bigger issue is the demographic change and waters being lost. In 10 years Punjab will be overrun with out of state migrants, totally changing the culture of Punjab. Compare today to 20 years ago, no Dastaar, filthy habits, songs, immorality, drugs, corruption you name it.

To those who ask how to help Shaheed parivaar, honestly, unless you give direct to their family, just don't. 50/60 % of your donation will be filtered before even reaching Punjab. Greed is everywhere these days.

TLDR:  Work at ground level, we need numbers wherever you are. Make Panthic minded groups, work together. Don't follow ANYBODY. Sava Lakh Se Ek. All these chors days are numbered. Many of us are here who actually want to go to Punjab and make a change.

[Guest GuestSingh]

15 hours ago, Guest Unity. said:

Valid points. I hate seeing the thousands being wasted on speeches, rallies etc. All these Khalistani organizations need to either decide A/B.

A-  Walk the walk, don't just shout Khalistan from western country and then use excuse such as we will become another Jaggi Johal. Singh's in the 80's went from Western countries and were not scared of death. Yet modern day "Kharkus" scared they may be put in jail.

B- Focus on issues in home country, the youth are being lost in the drug/dance scene. Stop the thousands of singers that keep popping up everyday. Provide jobs, gyms, groups for people to talk/ unite

our greatest weapon for khalistan is education - as already endorsed in some of my posts....

and it aint about being 'scared'...weve gotta adapt and be sensible as someone said to keep taking small steps to undertake this monumental effort...cuz we aint no gd to our ppl in prison are we?